Fact/Myth about Hairloss

[dt_dolce]

hi everyone

my question is about running propencia (finasteride) inorder to help reduce hairloss with my current cycle ;

nandrolone decanoate; 600mgs/week
test enanthate; 400mgs/week
test cyp 400mgs/week
masteron 300mgs/week

i read on another forum somewhere that the combination of the propencia with the deca will actually accelerate the hair loss, is this a myth or has anyone experienced it themselves ? will it interact with anything else i am on ?

thanks alot guys

[kfrost06]

if your running masteron there is no point in taking the propencia. Masteron is a very powerful DHT and propencia blocks the formation(conversion) of DHT. If your injecting a DHT (and the most powerful one out there) there is no reason to take the 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. propencia does not block the action of DHTs just the formation of them from testosterone

[hugovsilva]

That info is all over this board.

What happens is that both nandrolone and testosterone have high affinity for the 5ar enzyme.

Testosterone is converted to a much more powerful androgen (DHT) while nandrolone is converted to a milder one (DHN).

If you don't take finasteride you will have DHT and DHN around while if you take you will "not have" any of them. The second option (taking finasteride) is way better in terms of hairloss because dealing with not-converted nandrolone is in all ways preferable to dealing with DHT.

This is for testosterone and nandrolone. With masteron what happens is that it is already a DHT compound so if you are prone to hairloss, masteron will cause thinning and/or shedding because being a DHT compound it does not need to go through 5ar convertion meaning that finasteride will be useless.

[Kratos]

800 mg of test a week, I would say yeah take the propecia. Although mast is a potent dht, Dht + mast would be more of the same and produce more hairloss imo. Also I think the whole DHN 5ar thing is overdone. Nandrolone's afininty for the enzyme hasn't been established as far as I know. If DHN is produced in mass quantity and it is so androgenic people would notice increased muscle hardness with propecia when on nandrolone. Haven't heard of anyone experiencing this. If you are really worried about your hair though drop the mast and run the propicia imo. I don't touch DHT's, for fear of the folicles making a run for the border.

[hugovsilva]

Kratos, try some 5% topical spiro. Works wonders for me.

[Kratos]

have you seen any regrowth from that hugo?

[hugovsilva]

Not really but my hairloss is in the front so regrowth is way more difficult, but I noticed i don't get hairloss even when on prop/tren/winny.

I have successfully stopped my hairloss with finasteride while off cycle and with spiro/finasteride/nizoral while on. I am about to try some xandrox 12% lotion to try to get some regrowth. I'll let you know how it goes.

[jeffefrijoles]

OK.... so those of us who will be using Masteron/Winny... besides topicals (I got some Nizoral 2%, will look into the Spiro), what should we be using along with it, or at least have on hand? Dutasteride effective for the DHTs instead of Fin? If thats the one, does it limit gains, have other sides to be aware of? Inhibits gains...? I know it does to some extent, so how would one go about this?

[hugovsilva]

Duta is just like fina but stronger so it will do nothing for dht's. Nizoral 2% and spiro are your best bets.

[jeffefrijoles]

Ya, after much more research on other threads I have come to that conclusion. Cant find anywhere for Spiro cream though, only in tablet form. Not the same thing I would assume as you would need the cream to apply to scalp?

[hugovsilva]

The compund is the same but you don't want the systemic effect of the tablets.

[dt_dolce]

thanks alot guys, dropping the masteron and starting the finasteride

[dt_dolce]

hey guys one more thing, is equipoise going to be hard on the hairline ?

[hugovsilva]

Equipoise is not known for being harsh on the hairline.

[Kratos]

don't take the spiro tabs, you'll grow tits and turn into a woman, topical only for men.

[dt_dolce]

again thanks everyone, so it seems that most of the effective cutters are dht derivatives, so which of them are the lesser evil in terms of hairloss. instead of masteron would i be better off with tren? and is winny just as bad as masteron ? my initial plan was to phase in all of the above mentioned into my current cycle for the last 5 weeks to cut.

[respek]

What is topical spiro? I have never heard of it before. I currently use Rogaine 5 %. My dermatologist said that Nizoral does not help prevent hair loss. I tried propecia but I had severe sexual side effects so I had to stop. Do you know of anything else that is good for the frontal hairline?

[Kratos]

What is topical spiro? I have never heard of it before. I currently use Rogaine 5 %. My dermatologist said that Nizoral does not help prevent hair loss. I tried propecia but I had severe sexual side effects so I had to stop. Do you know of anything else that is good for the frontal hairline?

Ketoconazole shampoo: effect of long-term use in androgenic alopecia.Piérard-Franchimont C, De Doncker P, Cauwenbergh G, Piérard GE.
Department of Dermatopathology, University of Liège, Belgium.

BACKGROUND: The pathogenesis of androgenic alopecia is not fully understood. A microbial-driven inflammatory reaction abutting on the hair follicles might participate in the hair status anomaly. OBJECTIVE: The aim of our study was to determine if ketoconazole (KCZ) which is active against the scalp microflora and shows some intrinsic anti-inflammatory activity might improve alopecia. METHOD: The effect of 2% KCZ shampoo was compared to that of an unmedicated shampoo used in combination with or without 2% minoxidil therapy. RESULTS: Hair density and size and proportion of anagen follicles were improved almost similarly by both KCZ and minoxidil regimens. The sebum casual level appeared to be decreased by KCZ. CONCLUSION: Comparative data suggest that there may be a significant action of KCZ upon the course of androgenic alopecia and that Malassezia spp. may play a role in the inflammatory reaction. The clinical significance of the results awaits further controlled study in a larger group of subjects.

PMID: 9669136 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Kratos]

Ketocazole as an adjunct to finasteride in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia in men.Hugo Perez BS.
California College of Podiatric Medicine, 371 Columbus Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94133, USA. [email protected]

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) binding to androgen receptors (AR) in hair follicles is commonly accepted as the first step leading to the miniaturizing of follicles associated with androgenetic alopecia (AGA). Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5alpha-reductase. Finasateride a 5alpha-reducase inhibitor blocks the production of DHT and is currently used to treat AGA. The inhibition is not complete but a reduction of DHT systemically and in the scalp is accomplished. Ketoconazole has been clinically shown to be effective in the treatment of AGA. In this paper, evidence is presented to support the hypothesis that ketoconazole 2% shampoo has a local disruption of the DHT pathway. It is proposed that using ketoconazole 2% shampoo as an adjunct to finasteride treatment could lead to a more complete inhibition of DHT and thus better treat AGA.

PMID: 14729013 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[adude006]

propencia does not block the action of DHTs just the formation of them from testosterone

good point. But a quick Q: Is there anything out there that can block the action of DHT rather than just its formation? I know of the oral anti androgens but those will block everything so maybe there is something specifically for dht only?

[Kratos]

You gotta shampoo your hair anyway, so I use 2% nizoral at least half the time.
Spiro doesn't have a lot of clinical but in theory should work as an anti-androgen, kinda like nolva for your boobs, but for your hair instead. Always good to add rogaine.

[adude006]

hey guys one more thing, is equipoise going to be hard on the hairline ?

it's not hard BUT it can cause shedding if you are highly prone to hairloss... search on the net, you'll find quite a few posts on different boards on this. I would drop the eq though & use var instead for 8 weeks.

You'll get better strength/size gains i feel from var than from eq. I've used both twice and wasn't impressed with eq at 600, but vars at 75 & 100mg - AMAZING! Plus there was NO hairloss from the vars when i am mbp prone.

but yea, you'll have to try out both drugs and see how your body reacts, each person is different....

[football2007]

I am about to try some xandrox 12% lotion to try to get some regrowth. I'll let you know how it goes.

Ive tried that before..

Didnt really do much more than the 5% xandrox did. Its a hella lot more $$ as well.

I've read places that say that more minoxidil isn't necessarily better. Your scalp can only take so much, and more minoxidil doesn't mean better regrowth (or maintenance)

[sitries]

good thread......but back to the original question........is using finasteride with test and deca ok??????? do this cycle would cause no more or less hairloss than say a normal test cycle wth finasteride??

[adude006]

Deca + Finasteride = NO
Test + Finasteride = YES
Deca + Test + Finasteride = It's yes if you want to use both because even though deca is more potent in the scalp it is still less androgenic than DHT so you will get rid of the DHt part but will still have to deal with the deca causing hair loss which will be LESS than what DHT will cause. So if you are set on using both then yes using Finasteride will be better. But i wouldn't risk it though, now it seems like no big deals but once the hair starts falling off big time & never stops then you will wish you never touched roids!

i found this on another board,
"The misconception that deca with finasteride is a bad combination stems from the the days when deca only cycles were more common If one were running a deca only cycle (or any deca cycle without test), then finasteride would be a poor choice, because DHN is less androgenic than nandrolone. However, since we're assuming test to be included in a deca cycle, and both test and DHT are far more androgenic than nandrolone, if your goal is preventing the formation of the most androgenic compounds, then both deca and finasteride work together to reduce DHT formation.

To sum things up, if you're running a test + deca cycle and are worried about MPB (and you're susceptible), then including finasteride is a far better option than NOT including it, although the nandrolone will help to reduce DHT formation on its own to some extent."

[NightWolf]

Say if one where to start a cycle on a monday, should one
start proscar the same day?

[Nstart]

Not really but my hairloss is in the front so regrowth is way more difficult, but I noticed i don't get hairloss even when on prop/tren/winny.

I have successfully stopped my hairloss with finasteride while off cycle and with spiro/finasteride/nizoral while on. I am about to try some xandrox 12% lotion to try to get some regrowth. I'll let you know how it goes.

Please keep me updated. I am curious as to what your results with me with 12% Xandrox. If you have any success I will follow in your footsteps.

[adude006]

Say if one where to start a cycle on a monday, should one
start proscar the same day?

you would want to start proscar much before your cycle. I dont remember how much time it takes for it to start giving maximum effects but i think for duta it is 2 weeks, so i guess for proscar it should be longer...

maybe some hair expects here can help with the exact number of days or you can check up on some hair loss forums

you can even read through the fda study if you want, it might have some useful info
http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/20...roscar_lbl.pdf

[NightWolf]

you would want to start proscar much before your cycle. I dont remember how much time it takes for it to start giving maximum effects but i think for duta it is 2 weeks, so i guess for proscar it should be longer...

maybe some hair expects here can help with the exact number of days or you can check up on some hair loss forums

you can even read through the fda study if you want, it might have some useful info
http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/20...roscar_lbl.pdf

I dont have issues with hairloss and im not prone to MBP (atleast i dont think so). But im thinking of using Finasteride on my next cycle
because i dont want to much excess DHT floating around.

[adude006]

I dont have issues with hairloss and im not prone to MBP (atleast i dont think so). But im thinking of using Finasteride on my next cycle
because i dont want to much excess DHT floating around.

If you're not prone to hairloss then DHT can be your best friend! Why take him out?

[NightWolf]

If you're not prone to hairloss then DHT can be your best friend! Why take him out?

Ya but to much DHT is not good. I dont like the androgenic effects, only the anabolic

[Kratos]

If you're not prone to hairloss then DHT can be your best friend! Why take him out?

DHT is nobody's friend, good for the sex drive off cycle and inhibits breast tissue growth. Other than that it does nothing useful except make your prostate grow, pimples fill with puss, and hair fall out.

[adude006]

DHT is nobody's friend, good for the sex drive off cycle and inhibits breast tissue growth. Other than that it does nothing useful except make your prostate grow, pimples fill with puss, and hair fall out.

not really, that's only if you are prone. He says he's not prone so it should not effect him. Then also it depends.. like i never got any acne with my first 3 cycles when i never used any 5ar blocker, only had slight hair thining.

now ehn i'm using proscar i feel weak most of the time...

[Kratos]

ok, but dht isn't active in muscle. So, how is it your best friend?

[adude006]

the little guy? He's doing good coz i'm on cycle so the test is giving him a real boost.

[Z-Ro]

hi everyone

my question is about running propencia (finasteride) inorder to help reduce hairloss with my current cycle ;

nandrolone decanoate; 600mgs/week
test enanthate; 400mgs/week
test cyp 400mgs/week
masteron 300mgs/week

i read on another forum somewhere that the combination of the propencia with the deca will actually accelerate the hair loss, is this a myth or has anyone experienced it themselves ? will it interact with anything else i am on ?

thanks alot guys

If you were going to run the cycle that you have listed above, using Propecia (Finasteride) would be better than going through with the cycle and using nothing at all.

I also believe that the whole Propecia (Finasteride)/Avodart (Dutasteride) when used in conjunction with Deca/Tren is grossly overstated. I am fairly sure there are a good amount of users on this board alone who have run Propecia and any form of a Nadrolone at the same time. They just rarely post and I know of two that have done this with no complaints.

Now on the cycle, Propecia would not totally halt hair loss. The main two culprits being Masteron and Test, Deca second. If you are concerned about your hair I would definatley look into dropping the Masteron totally and lowering your dosage of Testosterone to 500mg a week of Test E. However, if you decide you would like to push through with this idea I suggest you use Propecia alongside topicals such as:

Nizoral 2% shampoo
Spiro 5% cream
Rogaine 5% Foam OR the higher concentrated dosages of Monoxidil (Rogaine) i.e.--Hugo's 12%

Now let me warn you that some users experience a loss of libido from Propecia/Avodart and some growing of gyno. I would definatley look into this and watch out for this signs or symptoms while using the compounds.

Also, the use of these products can really dry your scalp out (especially Nizoral), so I would pick up a solid conditioner.

All in all, the battle of hair loss is an expensive one and you have to selectively choose your compounds and choose to spend money on anti-hair loss products and stick with it.

This is not meant to deter you, just think of protecting your hair as something you do to stay healthier and younger.

[logen32]

This is on topic, so i hope it will be alright to ask. I will be running a test cycle, and have proscar(gonna split it) in case hair loss occurs. I have a little receding hair line nothing major, so just a precaution. I also cant really go back to my moms dad cuz he died in his 20s and had hair, my dad being 50 still has a good amount of hair.

Anyways my question is when the cycle is over is it alright to just stop taking the proscar, or will this cause hair loss ? And also do you have to load it, because im going to be using test suspension so that kicks in almost immediately.

Thanks

[NightWolf]

DHT is nobody's friend, good for the sex drive off cycle and inhibits breast tissue growth. Other than that it does nothing useful except make your prostate grow, pimples fill with puss, and hair fall out.

Dont forget all the gorilla hair it grows on you.

[dt_dolce]

well i have started the battle against hairloss, just a word thoug, most insurance companies do not cover propencia due to its focus on hair, however if you get proscar (the same thing just more prostate focused) it will be covered by insurance and all you do is split the tabs yourself

[nycdude]

Bump for this awesome thread.
I'm about to run 500mg/wk test E
and 500mg/wk EQ for 12 weeks.
I have thinning in the front and been running 1.25 finasteride/day with rogaine 2x/day and nizoral 2% about 2x/week.
Should that hair plan counteract any sides from the cycle? EQ apparently isn't too hard on the hair.
Info bros????
Thanks