Why so confusing???

**lovbyts** · 04-05-2008, 05:57 PM

I have been reading about steroids for years. I have been lurking and searching this site for some time also. It seems the more I read the more confusing it is. I have been thinking about doing my first cycle or mini cycle but the more I research the more it seems that it's confusing and VERY involved. I'm not sure if most of these cycles are for people who compete or the average joe like me.

age 45
Height 5'8"
Weight 180
Fat, not sure but not fat, no gut, can see abs but no six pack. Very little love handles.
Been working out off and on for MANY years but until recently been mostly off for several years due to 2 back surgeries. Last one 5 months ago and doing MUCH better now. NO Heavy weights...
Recently started AndroGel due to low Test (240) 1 week ago
Started HGH 1 month ago prescription. Just bumped up to 3 1/2 - 4 iu

I'm looking for just 1 (One) item to stack on this for short time use just to gain a little more strength/size and maybe burn a little more fat but not necessary as long as it doesn't add fat.
susatnon 250 have been suggested. Opinions?

**SMCengineer** · 04-05-2008, 06:01 PM

Research test enanthate . That'll be your answer..

**lovbyts** · 04-05-2008, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Blome

Research test enanthate. That'll be your answer..

I have done some searching and a friend says
"My favorite test is sustanon 250, between 500-1000 mg a week. The reason I like it more than Enanthate is that Sustanon is self tapering due to the 4 testosterone esters in it so u dont crash when u come off it. Also, I get virtually no water retention with it when compared to enanthate."

**Big** · 04-05-2008, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Sustanon is self tapering due to the 4 testosterone esters in it so u dont crash when u come off it.

so by his logic, a pct wouldn't be needed with sust?

**Amorphic** · 04-05-2008, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

I have done some searching and a friend says
"My favorite test is sustanon 250, between 500-1000 mg a week. The reason I like it more than Enanthate is that Sustanon is self tapering due to the 4 testosterone esters in it so u dont crash when u come off it. Also, I get virtually no water retention with it when compared to enanthate."

your friend is horribly misinformed. self tapering? lol.

if anything sust is more complicated for someone on a first cycle since you need to inject ed or eod due to the prop ester.

as was suggested, test e is the standard bread and butter first cycle.

look into pct and ancillaries as well.

**SMCengineer** · 04-05-2008, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

I have done some searching and a friend says
"My favorite test is sustanon 250, between 500-1000 mg a week. The reason I like it more than Enanthate is that Sustanon is self tapering due to the 4 testosterone esters in it so u dont crash when u come off it. Also, I get virtually no water retention with it when compared to enanthate."

Unless you really want to do EOD injections I would say go with the Test e. It's much easier to keep your blood levels constant and you'll probably see less sides. Remember, test is test. As for the self tapering thing, I've never heard that and it doesn't really make that much sense, but I could be wrong.

**lovbyts** · 04-05-2008, 06:14 PM

The more input the better. I appreciate the feedback.

**oker** · 04-05-2008, 06:24 PM

agreed, test is staple in any cycle and in the very least you'll get an idea of how your body reacts to test. I'm 41 and test 500 mg a week was my first cycle, made some great gains and make sure you plan yoru pct in advance, make sure your diet is clean also

**lovbyts** · 04-05-2008, 07:45 PM

OK, so what should the pct be? See, it's getting more and more and more involved. LOL

**ggoyal** · 04-05-2008, 08:12 PM

why are you looking for an easy answer. if you want gains, you should be happy to do the work for it. nolvadex at 20mg/day for 4 weeks with arimisin(check dosage). keep letro on hand incase you start getting gyno while on cycle.

**lovbyts** · 04-05-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by ggoyal

why are you looking for an easy answer. if you want gains, you should be happy to do the work for it. nolvadex at 20mg/day for 4 weeks with arimisin(check dosage). keep letro on hand incase you start getting gyno while on cycle.

You dont get it, because I have been reading for years and it seems that with anything you take you need to mix/match it with this and that and then afterwards you need to switch to this one with this or the other to help reduce that. LOL
It's also hard to get it in plain English. I have done a LOT or reading and research and I'm doing more now, isn't that what the forum is about? I'm trying to narrow it down so I know what I really want/need and dont waste a bunch of money getting the wrong stuff.

**Big** · 04-05-2008, 10:14 PM

You have been reading for years but don't know what to do for pct? Read for an additional 10 minutes, read the stickies at the top of the pct section, and you're covered.

**lovbyts** · 04-05-2008, 11:32 PM

Yeah but there are dozens of choices, that why I'm trying to narrow it down before I start. Yes I have been reading these forums off and on for year but also over time people opinions and facts keep changing. Can you say that there is one one way to go for pct? You may have your favorite but the next guy will say different. I'm just still gathering some more fact in a more direct fashion than just lurking.

come on, it's about Q&A, not accusations and belittling, OK?

**SMCengineer** · 04-05-2008, 11:40 PM

^^For a test only cycle I'd go with what ggoyal said. A serm and an AI would suffice.

**hobbs9963** · 04-05-2008, 11:59 PM

If it's too complicated get out now.

**Amorphic** · 04-06-2008, 12:07 AM

pct forum:

http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-cycle-therapy/

pct is subjective, take your pic from the ones outlined in there.

**lovbyts** · 04-06-2008, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by hobbs9963

If it's too complicated get out now.

OK, ive been nice, tried to ask queastion politely but maybe some of you should get off the test, you dont know how to be sival anymore or be helpful. Obvioulsy when you did your fisrt cycle you already knew EVERYTHING these was to know. Maybe you did because you where in your teens or early 20 instead of old enough to know that you never know it all. So with that said a couple of you can FU** off.

For you who have made suggestions thank you.

Maybe I should just start another thread and pretend like I know everything already instead of asking questions and being honest. OMG, I was asking question in the Q&A section, I should be banned....

**rickrick55** · 04-06-2008, 12:00 PM

well you could have atleast picked a pct and asked if it was okay instead of just asking for someone to make one...?

**pigrond** · 04-06-2008, 12:11 PM

maybe you didnt read a damn thing if you had you would be smart enough to know everyone is diffrent and no one way is the best way pick a basic pct and decide if it works for you by doing it . oh wait your on trt and hrt that means your on for life right seems you wouldnt need a pct if you never stop using .and since you are on trt and hrt ask your doctor.androgel is test. tell your doctor it aint working and try to get the injection problem solved

**lovbyts** · 04-06-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by pigrond

maybe you didnt read a damn thing if you had you would be smart enough to know everyone is diffrent and no one way is the best way pick a basic pct and decide if it works for you by doing it . oh wait your on trt and hrt that means your on for life right seems you wouldnt need a pct if you never stop using .and since you are on trt and hrt ask your doctor.androgel is test. tell your doctor it aint working and try to get the injection problem solved

Now see the 2nd part of your post is helpful, the first part? NOT!
Reading and finally doing are 2 different things. Yes I will not know for sure until I try and instead of beating me up for not posting a pct asking me to would be more helpful.

A lot has changed over the years, I dont read the boards constantly, I do have a life so information keeps changing and getting better for the most part. I probably wont be starting a cycle (if I do) for at least a few months. No need to do everything at once.

Yes I am on the HGH and AdroGel so no need to jump the gun to fast, let the body get use to these and see if there are any/much gains for a few months. I'm just trying to do some research first since obviously I cant run down to the corner store and pick up what I need and want to plan ahead.

So far advice/sarcasm has been 50/50 and I appreciate what I have gotten.

Thanks

**almostgone** · 04-06-2008, 12:36 PM

LOL...Hang in there, lovbyts. It ain't easy for us guys over 40 years old. Honestly, I would go with a single ester when you do decide you're ready/informed for/about AAS and PCT.
And just for the heck of it,ask your friend that since "Sustanon is self-tapering at the end of your cycle" is it also "self-ramping" at the beginning of the cycle? You'll find out right quick if he really knows anything about the half-lives of various esters or if he is just slinging info at you.

Good luck,
AG

**almostgone** · 04-06-2008, 12:45 PM

Also, since you're on HRT, how often do you expect to have labwork run? Running a cycle will really skew/screw your readings.

AG

**lovbyts** · 04-06-2008, 01:37 PM

Thanks almostgone (nice name) LOL
I will ask him, more than likely he misspoke it it was not what he was applying, I know he stack and probably was not clear.
I will be getting lab work done about every 2 months I believe. Right now the doctor I found is not covered by my medical but I am looking into seeing an endocrinologist and taking them the lab work I had done and continuing on with them since it would be covered by my insurance if I can get the same service/prescriptions through them and save $$$

**almostgone** · 04-06-2008, 02:53 PM

If you have labs run every 2 months, that isn't really allowing much time to run a cycle. You would hate to go in for bloodwork, have your lab values all screwed up from your cycle, and lose out on your insurance covered HRT.
Not saying it couldn't be done. I would just try to look at everything from all angles.
Good luck,
AG

**lovbyts** · 04-06-2008, 05:24 PM

Yes but I wont be starting any cycles for at least a couple months and everything I am on is prescribed right now. I'm hoping in a couple months I will switch to injections but also under prescription but then soon after cycle up to a dose large enough to make some gains.

**Big** · 04-06-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Yes but I wont be starting any cycles for at least a couple months and everything I am on is prescribed right now. I'm hoping in a couple months I will switch to injections but also under prescription but then soon after cycle up to a dose large enough to make some gains.

Make sure you get a schedule of when your bloodwork will be done, and work your cycle around that. If you are mid cycle and they call for bloodwork your high levels will likely cause them to lower your dosage. You may want to consider putting the cycle on the back burner until you get your hrt/trt solidified, you may find that the gains are sufficient that you don't need to cycle in addition to that.