Why do we come off at all?

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 09:48 AM

why do we come off aas completely?
why not pct while cycling on to other drugs at the same time?
Its a doubt question, but i dont see the need to come completely off.
usually at the end of a cycle your shut down so why turn it back on if you have the cash to continue. I know its sound abusive, but what the use of cycling on and off if you just wanna stay on cylcing between bulking and cutting and maintaining. im going to post this in the lounge also

**fdrx7man** · 04-09-2008, 09:48 AM

body needs time to recoup!

**kick6** · 04-09-2008, 09:49 AM

If you want a sack the size of two raisins, don't mind risking impotence, high cholesterol, high bp, and liver damage.....sure stay on forever.

For those of us who DON'T have a death wish, we cycle.

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 09:51 AM

why do we come off aas completely?
why not pct while cycling on to other drugs at the same time?
Its a doubt question, but i dont see the need to come completely off.
usually at the end of a cycle your shut down so why turn it back on if you have the cash to continue. I know its sound abusive, but what the use of cycling on and off if you just wanna stay on cylcing between bulking and cutting and maintaining.
I have less back pain when im on and feel better about myself, im more productive, an dlike how i look to myself and others. Im as big as i want to be and look like i want ot look minus a few pounds.

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by kick6

If you want a sack the size of two raisins, don't mind risking impotence, high cholesterol, high bp, and liver damage.....sure stay on forever.

For those of us who DON'T have a death wish, we cycle.

Nice, dont sugar coat it just give it too me strait.

**kick6** · 04-09-2008, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by 39+1

Nice, dont sugar coat it just give it too me strait.

I think I pretty much covered it.

**theWiseOne** · 04-09-2008, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by kick6

If you want a sack the size of two raisins, don't mind risking impotence, high cholesterol, high bp, and liver damage.....sure stay on forever.

For those of us who DON'T have a death wish, we cycle.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

**kfrost06** · 04-09-2008, 10:01 AM

The main reason is for your HPTA, you come off to allow your HPTA to recover, if you stay on too long you risk it never returning to normal. Some people don't mind risking that and they do what is called cruising, taking a TRT dose in between cycles while other areas recover like your liver, cholesterol, kidneys, blood pressure, etc. For the ones that stay on, to prevent gonad shrikage you can take hcg and that will give some size back to your testes. I highly recommend treating your body well and look at the long term, you only get one body.

**pumpd4lif** · 04-09-2008, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by 39+1

why do we come off aas completely?
why not pct while cycling on to other drugs at the same time?
Its a doubt question, but i dont see the need to come completely off.
usually at the end of a cycle your shut down so why turn it back on if you have the cash to continue. I know its sound abusive, but what the use of cycling on and off if you just wanna stay on cylcing between bulking and cutting and maintaining.
I have less back pain when im on and feel better about myself, im more productive, an dlike how i look to myself and others. Im as big as i want to be and look like i want ot look minus a few pounds.

Well it wouldnt be cycling if u stayed on now would it?Anything in excess will have more sides then not.I think this is just foolish(if more than just a thought)and u can do some real harm to urself

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by pumpd4lif

Well it wouldnt be cycling if u stayed on now would it?Anything in excess will have more sides then not.I think this is just foolish(if more than just a thought)and u can do some real harm to urself

I cycle, its just a thought.

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by kfrost06

The main reason is for your HPTA, you come off to allow your HPTA to recover, if you stay on too long you risk it never returning to normal. Some people don't mind risking that and they do what is called cruising, taking a TRT dose in between cycles while other areas recover like your liver, cholesterol, kidneys, blood pressure, etc. For the ones that stay on, to prevent gonad shrikage you can take hcg and that will give some size back to your testes. I highly recommend treating your body well and look at the long term, you only get one body.

Kfrost its always a pleasure hearing from you, so constructive.
It was just a thought. Im 40 and want to stay 20

**theWiseOne** · 04-09-2008, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by kick6

If you want a sack the size of two raisins, don't mind risking impotence, high cholesterol, high bp, and liver damage.....sure stay on forever.

For those of us who DON'T have a death wish, we cycle.

I believe this is your second thread about this topic. Here was a reply from your last thread....

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by theWiseOne

I believe this is your second thread about this topic. Here was a reply from your last thread....

yes i posted in the lounge and at aas ? i just wanted some constructive critiques. and im receiving them thanks
O yeah and an enlarged prostrate, dont forget that one

**Merc..** · 04-09-2008, 10:43 AM

Threads merged ...

Merc.

**kick6** · 04-09-2008, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by 39+1

O yeah and an enlarged prostrate, dont forget that one

If you're prone to such things, yes. Things like enlarged prostate and hairloss may or may not occur. Cholesterol and BP changes are almost a certainty.

**Mbuffguy** · 04-09-2008, 10:50 AM

try it u might like dialisis at the age of 25

**ottomaddox** · 04-09-2008, 11:14 AM

He's 40 years old.

Originally Posted by Mbuffguy

try it u might like dialisis at the age of 25

**Schmidty** · 04-09-2008, 11:17 AM

what if u run outa money and get get ur gear??? What would u do then???

**SECdominance** · 04-09-2008, 11:22 AM

your steroid receptors in the muscle become too saturated if on for extended periods...need time to get them fresh so they will be able to once again give you the gains youre lookin for

**39+1** · 04-09-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by SECdominance

your steroid receptors in the muscle become too saturated if on for extended periods...need time to get them fresh so they will be able to once again give you the gains youre lookin for

another good point, changing drugs usually resolves this problem but stilll a good point

**Hollywood080** · 04-09-2008, 02:45 PM

this is the line between steroid use and abuse!!!!

**naturalsux** · 04-09-2008, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by 39+1

Kfrost its always a pleasure hearing from you, so constructive.
It was just a thought. Im 40 and want to stay 20

if your 40, you might as well get on hrt, self prescribed. your old enough.

**Merc..** · 04-09-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by SECdominance

your steroid receptors in the muscle become too saturated if on for extended periods...need time to get them fresh so they will be able to once again give you the gains youre lookin for

AR receptors dont down regulate .. In fact , they acually increase in density in the presence of more androgen's....

People think that when they stop gaining that thier receptors are shot .. This is not what is slowing thier growth ... You see it's the build up of other [ reaction factors ] such as cortisol, glycogen, SHGB that the body pumps out to bring you back into hematosis that shuts down thier growth ..

Merc.

**naturalsux** · 04-09-2008, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Merc.

AR receptors dont down regulate .. In fact , they acually increase in density in the presence of more androgen's....

People think that when they stop gaining that thier receptors are shot .. This is not what is slowing thier growth ... You see it's the build up of other [ reaction factors ] such as cortisol, glycogen, SHGB that the body pumps out to bring you back into hematosis that shuts down thier growth ..

Merc.

so how do we fight that? cycle off?

**ChuckLee** · 04-09-2008, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by naturalsux

so how do we fight that? cycle off?

I firmly believe that the answer should be YES.

CL

**naturalsux** · 04-09-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

I firmly believe that the answer should be YES.

CL

thats not a good enough answer. i would like to hear what Merc or Magic has to say.

thanks though.

**Merc..** · 04-09-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by naturalsux

so how do we fight that? cycle off?

Yes , the best way is to come off cycle ...

Merc.

**naturalsux** · 04-09-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Merc.

Yes , the best way is to come off cycle ...

Merc.

even if i cycle low dose like hrt?

thanks.

**Merc..** · 04-09-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by naturalsux

even if i cycle low dose like hrt?

thanks.

If gains have stopped , yea .....

**Merc..** · 04-10-2008, 05:27 PM

T.T.t

**MuscleScience** · 04-10-2008, 05:43 PM

There is also an increase in expression of the enzyme family known as cytochrome's that are responsible for degrading drugs down. Over time they build up in the liver causing the liver to be more efficient to degrade the particular drug that appears in high levels in the blood. Over time as the blood passes through the liver as the cytochrome enzymes are expressed higher and higher in hepatocytes. They are able to process more and more of the particular drug from the blood every time it passes. Going off any drug will decrease the specific expression of the cytochrome enzymes that are responsible for the drug resistance.

**39+1** · 04-11-2008, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

There is also an increase in expression of the enzyme family known as cytochrome's that are responsible for degrading drugs down. Over time they build up in the liver causing the liver to be more efficient to degrade the particular drug that appears in high levels in the blood. Over time as the blood passes through the liver as the cytochrome enzymes are expressed higher and higher in hepatocytes. They are able to process more and more of the particular drug from the blood every time it passes. Going off any drug will decrease the specific expression of the cytochrome enzymes that are responsible for the drug resistance.

Thats all well and important, all of it. thanks to you and Merc I appreciate your input.
The body needs to relax.
The liver breaking down the drugs more efficiently is probably the best part of understanding why the drugs stop working as well, but it all great insight into why cycle on and off.
the body is resilent.

**theflyzman** · 04-11-2008, 10:57 AM

Let me ask this. I have been on for 9 months now. I started with test e deca and dbol for 5 months. Then went to test p and tren a, for 4 months and now just started tren E and testE again, with winstrol and mast as well to cut all this up. How bad off am i if i do so for another 3 months, totaling a year of straight use. stats 31ys, 215lbs, 13%bf 6ft. 3 prior cycles.

**39+1** · 04-11-2008, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by theflyzman

Let me ask this. I have been on for 9 months now. I started with test e deca and dbol for 5 months. Then went to test p and tren a, for 4 months and now just started tren E and testE again, with winstrol and mast as well to cut all this up. How bad off am i if i do so for another 3 months, totaling a year of straight use. stats 31ys, 215lbs, 13%bf 6ft. 3 prior cycles.

Im not sure who would be best to answere this. There a lot of solid reason given for why we cycle. One to let you HPTA catch back up and go to normal. My thought on this normal is good but usually thru a cycle we are taking some of the same PCT meds used after cycle, and this does activate the HPTA tract. But the body does need rest. so why dont you finish up the year and take a good look at your self and your accomplishments do a excptional PCT, clean out you liver, kidneys, vascular system, lymph and go from there, you wont be bad off at all. The body is resilent.

**plzr8** · 04-11-2008, 01:34 PM

^^^ pretty solid advice & get some bloodwork done a few times till you are back to within normal ranges

**theflyzman** · 04-12-2008, 11:11 AM

I like your thoughts. I'm tired of the constant training and sticking all the time. I can feel I need the rest. Thanks Bro..

**LETSROCK!!!!** · 04-12-2008, 02:33 PM

What if you just stayed on test? and cycled the other stuff....

**39+1** · 04-13-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by LETSROCK!!!!

What if you just stayed on test? and cycled the other stuff....

go to kfrost post above its called cruising

**paulzane** · 04-13-2008, 12:10 PM

Well 39+1 ... I have always likened it to alcohol use. That, I think, is an easy analogy to use. When you are young and have your first few pints of beer you can feel the effects creep into your face and you get merry and are drunk on 4 pints!! A few years down the line of regular drinking you never feel the effects creep into your face and it takes 10 - 12 pints to get you drunk! The only way you ever get back to that lovely adolescent feeling is to lay off for a sustained period! This allows your body to recover.

The same with steroids .... the more you use .... the more you need to use to get the same effect!!