DNP ?'s- Women, Cataracts, etc...

**GixxerChick** · 05-07-2008, 02:26 AM

I've been researching the crap out of DNP on the internet and PubMed but I haven't been able to find a few things... maybe someone can help me?

1. I read something anecdotal somewhere saying that DNP makes women sterile. Is there any actual research or proof behind this? Anyone know anything about this? What is the proposed mechanism of ova being destroyed by DNP?

2. What about the huge amount of DNP users in the 1940's and so on... what happened to them? Have any follow-up studies been done on long-term effects? According to this article over 100,000 people did it in the 1940's... I wonder how they are today, especially in regards to cataracts, cancer, etc.

3. That same 1940 article says the cause of cataracts from DNP was never determined, has there been any new research since then? I know on the DNP FAQ's there is always a list of supplements, how were these determined? Which ones are specifically for prevention of cataracts?

5. Phenols are supposed to be carcinogenic, yet there's research on PubMed where DNP is being used in anti-cancer experiments... anyone know anything on the carcinogenic risk of DNP?

4. Anyone know anything about DNOC, or any other uncouplers? I find the topic of uncouplers in general very interesting

I have full access to PubMed and all the other databases through my college, so if anyone knows of any useful related abstracts I can pull up the full version.

Thanks in advance if anyone can help me with any of these

**ChuckLee** · 05-07-2008, 04:25 AM

Why you would want to poison your body?
What is your diet? Cardio plan?

**GixxerChick** · 05-07-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Why you would want to poison your body?
What is your diet? Cardio plan?

Um, who said I wanted to "poison my body"? I don't see it in my post. I do, however, see "I have been researching..." which doesn't necessarily imply I plan on taking it.

Why would you want to discourage someone from seeking knowledge on something? I can't ask several intelligent questions here without getting interrogated about my personal dieting habits (which are completely irrelevant to the questions I asked)?

**damiongage** · 05-07-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by GixxerChick

Um, who said I wanted to "poison my body"? I don't see it in my post. I do, however, see "I have been researching..." which doesn't necessarily imply I plan on taking it.

Why would you want to discourage someone from seeking knowledge on something? I can't ask several intelligent questions here without getting interrogated about my personal dieting habits (which are completely irrelevant to the questions I asked)?

**Nstart** · 05-07-2008, 09:18 PM

GixxerChick, I think what ChuckLee is primarily trying to is discourage you from using DNP . There is a reason a lot of professional bodybuilders won't even touch the stuff.

At the end of the day it all really comes to diet and cardio. If you really must take something, then do a mild cycle of T3 and Clen (but I don't even recommend that).

To answer you question, I looked into DNP a while back and as far as I could find, all human research in regards to DNP has not occurred in many years. The reason being is that is just so dangerous that the few I have been able to find in medical libraries usually had to be stopped to due patients having to be hospitalized.

If electron transport doesn't produce ATP, then much more sugar must be metabolized for energy needs. Very low production of ATP would be lethal. In oxidative phosphorylation, the flow of electrons from NADH and FADH2 to oxygen results in the pumping of H+ from the matrix to the inner membrane space. This gradient of H+ can produce ATP by flowing through ATP synthetase in the mitochondrial inner membrane. Dinitrophenol disrupts the H+ gradient reducing ATP synthesis. Under these conditions, much of our food that we eat could not be used for ATP synthesis are we lose weight. However, too much inhibitor and we could make too little ATP for life. The difference between weight loss and death is only a small concentration change in dinitrophenol, making the drug dangerous.

There is also an article in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) that did a trial with lab rats. Several rats died after being given dosages for 2 weeks, and even after the experiment stopped, all the rats died prematurely. They talked about it being difficult to directly relate the numerous DNP deaths of the 1940s because there were so many variables to it and that they strongly urge human trial of DNP be discontinued completely. When dealing with humans in an uncontrolled environment, it's almost impossible to say X person took Y drug 15 years ago and as a result is now having problems with Z.

When I return to work on Monday, I'll find the article and send it to you.

**GixxerChick** · 05-08-2008, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Nstart

GixxerChick, I think what ChuckLee is primarily trying to is discourage you from using DNP.

Whether or not I plan to use it does not affect the answers to the questions I posted. I don't understand why I can't seek unbiased information without a personal judgement. I think its a shame to discourage any attempt at expanding one's knowledge, especially when so few people even bother to research things as deeply as I have.

No, I do not plan on using DNP due to the inherent risk that seems even greater in women, but it does not mean I am not extremely interested in exploring it a little deeper. I have a published paper myself in the field of neuropsychopharmacology, so obviously I'm intelligent enough to come to my own conclusions. I didn't ask for opinions on whether or not you feel I personally should take DNP, I asked for answers to objective questions hoping someone here might have researched it a little longer and more thoroughly than I have.

I'll see if I can find the answers on my own since people here are clearly unwilling to help under the guise of protecting me. It seems the pursuit of knowledge is looked down upon moreso than actually taking the chemical itself.

**ChuckLee** · 05-08-2008, 02:21 AM

It's so simple.

DNP is a very dangerous compound and most of the WISE members here (not damiongage for sure) will dissuade you from take it, FOR NOW.

This for 2 reasons primarily:

1. You should have to watch at your progress just strictly dieting and doing cardio everyday at empty stomach.
I notice that in your post you didn't even mention neither the diet or cardio plan you're following.
And this is very important because without a proper diet and exercise any chemical compound won't do anything, and DNP require some particular diet attentions to be aware of.

2. There are so many compounds to try before that (obviously only if your diet is ok once again), like clen or T3.
Just take a look to the profiles of these ones and you'll see how amazing they can be.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE NOT HERE TO DISCOURAGE ANYONE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE AND GIVE ADVICES THE MORE HEALTHY WE CAN.

**Jay-Ace** · 05-08-2008, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

It's so simple.

DNP is a very dangerous compound and most of the WISE members here (not damiongage for sure) will dissuade you from take it, FOR NOW.

This for 2 reasons primarily:

1. You should have to watch at your progress just strictly dieting and doing cardio everyday at empty stomach.
I notice that in your post you didn't even mention neither the diet or cardio plan you're following.
And this is very important because without a proper diet and exercise any chemical compound won't do anything, and DNP require some particular diet attentions to be aware of.

2. There are so many compounds to try before that (obviously only if your diet is ok once again), like clen or T3.
Just take a look to the profiles of these ones and you'll see how amazing they can be.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE NOT HERE TO DISCOURAGE ANYONE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE AND GIVE ADVICES THE MORE HEALTHY WE CAN.

I think you missed teh point ChuckLee.... She seems to be doing research for teh sake of research, nobody mentioned anything about actually taking it, dieting, cardio or any other related activities. Whilst your advice is sound and well meant, it's just not hitting the right buttons

GixxerChick.....

Have a search around for cataract formation due to Galactose... (posted from a previous post of mine)

It is my understanding that DNP inhibits the GALT enzyme in the liver (DNP causes several enzymes to become defficient). The result of this is an increased serum concentration of Galactose, the primary cause of sugar cataracts. Enzyme defficiency is more pronounced in women, the reason I'm not certain of and can't find the source for this info, and this is why women are known to be more at risk from cataract formation.

Exogenous Pyruvate does not coat the eye structures, more that it increase the rate of Krebs Cycle reactions, just 1 of many reactions in the body that is hindered by DNP.

The Galactose caused cataracts is most easily avoided by decreasing your consumption of dairy products, the catarcts are an indirect result of the breakdown of Lactose from milk.

I think I remember reading somewhere about DNP on cancerous cells, something about the genetic mutations causing the mitochondria to burn out or something.... Haven't got any of teh studies saved anymore so looks like you'll have to do some research on that one.

The hinting at sterility in women, not sure where that idea has come from but I think it's largely a cautionary measure.... Any guy that has taken DNP (or any gf for that matter

) can tell you that the DNP permeates into semen very rapidly causing it to turn yellow, often bright yellow at doses of 500mg+ QD. Can we say that DNP actually reaches the Ovaries, could it permeate an Ovum... Who knows :-S As I'm sure you're aware the female body actually stores all her Ova throughout life, with a single (usually) Ovum developing on the 4 week cycle..... Unlike a man who actually produces new sperm constantly. I think it's just too risky

Hope that helps

**damiongage** · 05-08-2008, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

It's so simple.

DNP is a very dangerous compound and most of the WISE members here (not damiongage for sure) will dissuade you from take it, FOR NOW.

I agree that DNP is very dangerous....I would never even consider using DNP.

My research on it is very limited (I only researched enough to know it is not for me) and I could tell by her first question that her research far exceeded mine and that she most likely had some sort of medical background.

You (my WISE friend

) jumped to the conclusion that she wanted to "poison her body" with it. Your jumping to conclusions got your ass

and after I read her post I

'd.

Oh well....even thouh I sometimes like to

I still

**goose** · 05-08-2008, 06:58 AM

God damm the parrots of these boards are hot today,but DNP should not be used,a horrible drug..

I hate all fat burners as clen and ECA stack are Stimulants.

google lipolyze it has usnic acid,has the Mechanisms of DNP,but you dont feel a thing.Its a product by the great dave Dave Palumbo....

**ChuckLee** · 05-08-2008, 07:14 AM

Metaphor:

If I would want to know how to eat shit, there should be a bloody reason for that!!
So people would ask me "why the hell you wanna eat shit??"

First I'd answer "just to do some research" and "learn something I don't know".
But the truth will be effectively that I want to try to eat shit, that's why I asked.

Otherwise who could care about...

**ChuckLee** · 05-08-2008, 07:15 AM

No bad feelings Gixxer...

**GixxerChick** · 05-09-2008, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Metaphor:

If I would want to know how to eat shit, there should be a bloody reason for that!!
So people would ask me "why the hell you wanna eat shit??"

First I'd answer "just to do some research" and "learn something I don't know".
But the truth will be effectively that I want to try to eat shit, that's why I asked.

Otherwise who could care about...

Lol, are you saying you never google anything out of morbid curiosity?

For example, I research weird shit like anencephaly, harlequin ichthyosis, cyclopia, etc. Not because I'm particularly hoping to someday have a baby with one of these rare gems of a disease, but because I'm f'ing curious. I like to know why stuff happens and how things work.

DNP is very interesting to me. The risks are most likely too high for me to use it, but uncouplers are really neat to me, and its a shame it has so many dangerous side effects otherwise the course of history may have gone very differently.

**GixxerChick** · 05-09-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jay-Ace

GixxerChick.....

Have a search around for cataract formation due to Galactose... (posted from a previous post of mine)

It is my understanding that DNP inhibits the GALT enzyme in the liver (DNP causes several enzymes to become defficient). The result of this is an increased serum concentration of Galactose, the primary cause of sugar cataracts. Enzyme defficiency is more pronounced in women, the reason I'm not certain of and can't find the source for this info, and this is why women are known to be more at risk from cataract formation.

Exogenous Pyruvate does not coat the eye structures, more that it increase the rate of Krebs Cycle reactions, just 1 of many reactions in the body that is hindered by DNP.

The Galactose caused cataracts is most easily avoided by decreasing your consumption of dairy products, the catarcts are an indirect result of the breakdown of Lactose from milk.

I think I remember reading somewhere about DNP on cancerous cells, something about the genetic mutations causing the mitochondria to burn out or something.... Haven't got any of teh studies saved anymore so looks like you'll have to do some research on that one.

The hinting at sterility in women, not sure where that idea has come from but I think it's largely a cautionary measure.... Any guy that has taken DNP (or any gf for that matter

) can tell you that the DNP permeates into semen very rapidly causing it to turn yellow, often bright yellow at doses of 500mg+ QD. Can we say that DNP actually reaches the Ovaries, could it permeate an Ovum... Who knows :-S As I'm sure you're aware the female body actually stores all her Ova throughout life, with a single (usually) Ovum developing on the 4 week cycle..... Unlike a man who actually produces new sperm constantly. I think it's just too risky

Hope that helps

Yes, thank you!

Does the yellow sperm mean its necessarily damaged? I know DNP was used as a dye also. And I know people who overdosed on DNP and were autopsied, their organs were yellow, so it might be safe to assume that if your sperm is yellow probably the rest of your insides are as well, but I'm not sure that necessarily implies damage since DNP was found in that research article to have no damage on any major organs.

But, you also have to take into account that perhaps sperm could be killed as a result of the high body temperatures caused by DNP, and ovum aren't suspect to damage from high temperatures in the manner that sperm are...

Anyone on DNP wanna do a crude experiment and put their sperm under a microscope for me and see if they still wiggle?

**Phate** · 05-09-2008, 02:35 PM

i understand where you are coming from on the researching for the sake of researching point, as im 18 and not going to cycle for at least 6 more years yet i'm on here almost everyday researching

if you find uncouplers interesting search for usnic acid, it's a very strong, even stronger than DNP , uncoupler.

**jstraw428** · 05-09-2008, 02:51 PM

i googled yogurt the other day, i was so bored at work...........

**HURRICANE3500** · 05-09-2008, 03:04 PM

dnp isnt that bad IF USED CORRECT .. ive used to numerous times .. from a mens point of view .. for women i cant speak .. many people that talk down on dnp never used to and copy and paste what they read on the internet .if u dont do research and use it correct it can be deadly but u will have your own stupidity to blame

**Kratos** · 05-09-2008, 03:22 PM

smart girls who ride sport bikes are hot gixxerchick

goose, why not pure usnea extract? Ever use usnic acid? That stuff is like 12mg, don't you need to take a lot more usnic acid than that?

**peteroy01** · 05-09-2008, 04:14 PM

somebody shine the Magic23 spotlight in the clouds. Magic knows loads about DNP .

**damiongage** · 05-09-2008, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by HURRICANE3500

dnp isnt that bad IF USED CORRECT .. ive used to numerous times .. from a mens point of view .. for women i cant speak .. many people that talk down on dnp never used to and copy and paste what they read on the internet .if u dont do research and use it correct it can be deadly but u will have your own stupidity to blame

thats where my research stopped.....none for me thanks

**RANA** · 05-09-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

smart girls who ride sport bikes are hot gixxerchick

goose, why not pure usnea extract? Ever use usnic acid? That stuff is like 12mg, don't you need to take a lot more usnic acid than that?

I might be wrong but there does not seem to be too much of a difference between the two.

**Kratos** · 05-09-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by RANA

I might be wrong but there does not seem to be too much of a difference between the two.

Well I don't know much about usnic acid, not a lot out there on it except for the liver problems of years ago. Just curious if anyone knows more about it.

**Phate** · 05-09-2008, 11:05 PM

i think i remember reading a couple threads on it a while ago, but i'm bout to go to bed/go party, i'm kinda debating right now, so i'll look them up tomorrow

**GixxerChick** · 05-10-2008, 02:40 AM

I'm curious about the usnic acid, from my brief googling it appears to be pretty harsh on the liver? Much more research is required on my part, I'm just so sick of sitting on the computer, haha.

Hehe thanks Kratos

**RANA** · 05-10-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

Well I don't know much about usnic acid, not a lot out there on it except for the liver problems of years ago. Just curious if anyone knows more about it.

I know that has the same metabolic effects (uncoupling ATP synthesis, generating heat and free radicals) as DNP .

**GixxerChick** · 05-11-2008, 05:31 AM

Looks like usnic acid is pretty hepatotoxic... looks like its probably more dangerous than DNP in that regard.

**ChuckLee** · 05-11-2008, 05:56 AM

I believe that a Clen +T3 stack work wonders and if your diet is strict enough you'll se your body improving day after day.
There's no need to switch to more dangerous compounds imo.

Good luck with all your research Gixxer

***G-1000*** · 05-14-2008, 01:23 PM

DNp will make women steril by killing off her eggs. Not wise.

**GixxerChick** · 05-15-2008, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Gsxxr

DNp will make women steril by killing off her eggs. Not wise.

Can you back up this statement with a citation or source? Genuinely curious.

**Kratos** · 05-15-2008, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by GixxerChick

Can you back up this statement with a citation or source? Genuinely curious.

I don't think anybody can give you a definite answer on this GixxerChick, they just want to err on the side of caution. The studies and the information don't exist to my knowledge to confirm or deny this.

I'm gonna give the usnic acid a go and use myself as a Guinea pig to lean out before summer and my tour of Europe next month. I'll let you know what happens and if I loose my liver in the process.

**gixxerboy1** · 05-15-2008, 04:00 PM

i have nothing useful to post on thsi subject. Just had to check it out becasue of your name

**RANA** · 05-15-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

I don't think anybody can give you a definite answer on this GixxerChick, they just want to err on the side of caution. The studies and the information don't exist to my knowledge to confirm or deny this.

I'm gonna give the usnic acid a go and use myself as a Guinea pig to lean out before summer and my tour of Europe next month. I'll let you know what happens and if I loose my liver in the process.

Are you getting any blood work done pre and post usage?

**chris288** · 06-01-2008, 01:11 PM

I am new to this board, but have posted on many other boards before. I have used DNP before and have tried to do extensive research about it for the past 6 to 7 years. Its hard to find out all the data to back up everything on DNP. One of the most interesting finds that I have come across about DNP is it being used to treat cancer patients. There was an older doctor in GA that got busted a few years ago for curing patients with fatal cancers using DNP. Very interesting, but of course got popped. Uncouplers are extremely effective at fat loss. I have been trying to research how DNP can be used without all the harmful side effects. Especially the heat!! Which is the most unbearable. One mistake most DNP users make is they do not realize that this chemical builds up in the system... so starting at 200mg the first day doesnt mean thats what you end up with as it keeps building up over time. DNP needs to be cycled and spread the dose over 36 hours. Anyways, just my 2 cents about it.