Orals - injectables - keeping gains

[big an rich]

I may get some critical comments here:

If I were to say I'm going to do an oral only cycle I would get flamed for not using an injectable due to not keeping my gains.

I have done 6 cycles involving both now, I take about 6 months off between cycles and my cycles are never more that 12 weeks with about 6 PCT. I use aggressive PCT and train hard off cycle.

Mainly cycles consist of long ester test, powerful oral to start (dbol/drol) and I have added winny/deca/tren/eq/primo/var (normally I use the shredding gear with TNE or prop instead of enanthate).

My point is this: I lose nearly all of my gains by 6 months no matter what I do. Without the AAS there is not the positive nitrogen balance to sustain the extra muscle mass. Over the years I have become stronger and my body looks a lot different though I am not a great deal heavier that when I started (I had trained for 4 years naturally, 3 with help :-)

2 questions:

1: What is the benefit to using an injectable over an oral for the purpose of keeping your gains (other than the obvious, it takes longer to absorb)

2: Does anyone here have personal experience with gaining loads of muscle with AAS then keeping the gains for years after cessation?

I appreciate I've written a lot there, sorry and thanks for any constructive reply.

[ChuckLee]

Probably your diet is the issue.

You should eat more while on PCT and up a bit the cals.

There is a false myth that says you have to eat more only while on cycle, whereas you have to maintain what you gained AFTER your cycle, as long as the gains were not water weight only.
The only true thing from this myth should be the fact the while on AAS the protien synthesis is increased so you would need a larger amount of such nutrient in orded to achieve the maximum results from this anabolic state.

What is your diet in on/off periods? What are the changes?

[big an rich]

I just try to eat as much as I can in both but admittedly this is sometimes less that others as I find that is difficult to sustain. My diet at present (having been off for 8 months) involves (not necessarily in this order):
CARBS:
Brown rice
Brown pasta
Sweet potato
Wholemeal bread (only in morning for breakfast or in sandwiches for work)
MEAT:
Tuna
Chicken
Very rarely steak or minced steak
White fish
VEG:
Plenty brockoli, carrots, peas and sweet corn

I have a 50g protein shake PWO with 80g waxy maize starch (carb) and some CEE, vit c and electrolytes

I have a 50g protein shake before bed (just protein).

I try to keep my diet up on off season as well as on but I find that it does become less at times. Mostly it doesn't.

I'm thinking of keeping my diet clean (I don't eat any simple sugars, choc or fatty food at present) and doing a 5 week Tbol and var cycle then 10 weeks off then another 5 on, each with a nolv/clom PCT - possibly 40mg tbol and 80mg var...

I'm 28 Y/O, 5'11", 194lbs and approx 11% BF and I've not touched AAS since last August/Sept (finished PCT in Oct last year)

[big an rich]

Reading the above I see I've gone a bit over the top.

I really only want one question answered factually:

WHY MUST YOU ALWAYS USE AN INJECTABLE WITH A CYCLE?

Most common answer will be "cos you'll lose your gains" BUT WHY IS THAT?

Thanks

[ChuckLee]

Reading the above I see I've gone a bit over the top.

I really only want one question answered factually:

WHY MUST YOU ALWAYS USE AN INJECTABLE WITH A CYCLE?

Most common answer will be "cos you'll lose your gains" BUT WHY IS THAT?

Thanks

Because you need test in any AAS cycle and since the reliable sources of test are only avaiable in injectable versions, you NEED an injectable in every cycle.

[sdc]

I have learned from being in the game for awhile. That you can not keep your gains if you come off for long periods. I too take 6 months sometimes longer. I have yet to see someone come of for 6 months to a year and keep solid gains. You can keep some but only what your body can maintain naturally. The ones that tell you can, Have never really come off for more than a year. That just my two cents. I have friends that compete too, and there diets are spot on. They too share the same opinion as me.

[fedorrulz]

I may get some critical comments here:

If I were to say I'm going to do an oral only cycle I would get flamed for not using an injectable due to not keeping my gains.

I have done 6 cycles involving both now, I take about 6 months off between cycles and my cycles are never more that 12 weeks with about 6 PCT. I use aggressive PCT and train hard off cycle.

Mainly cycles consist of long ester test, powerful oral to start (dbol/drol) and I have added winny/deca/tren/eq/primo/var (normally I use the shredding gear with TNE or prop instead of enanthate).

My point is this: I lose nearly all of my gains by 6 months no matter what I do. Without the AAS there is not the positive nitrogen balance to sustain the extra muscle mass. Over the years I have become stronger and my body looks a lot different though I am not a great deal heavier that when I started (I had trained for 4 years naturally, 3 with help :-)

2 questions:

1: What is the benefit to using an injectable over an oral for the purpose of keeping your gains (other than the obvious, it takes longer to absorb)

2: Does anyone here have personal experience with gaining loads of muscle with AAS then keeping the gains for years after cessation?

I appreciate I've written a lot there, sorry and thanks for any constructive reply.

You don't lose all your gains from oral cycles. That is BS. It starts from the fact that dbol and anadrol cause massive amount of water weight which disapears after the cycle is over. You are not losing muscle like some inject only people want you to believe.

var, oral primo (i don't reccomend unless you have lots of money), and tbol are all orals that you can make small, yet KEEPABLE gains. They don't bloat you up.

You never keep all your gains from any roid after coming off. I have kept the most with var.

The negative part of long estered injectables is if you have bad side effects (acne, hairloss, etc)...the drug will stay in your body for a long time and the bad side effects will be around for awhile. I had a 35 year old friend nearly committ suicide after test broke his face out with zits so bad. He was so depressed and his wife ended up leaving him in the end. Two shots of test E changed his world. His co-workers knew he was a roid user by looking at his face full of zits.

I had a bad reaction to test, tren, and other as well, and as such I avoid injectables now. Thankfully my acne wasn't as bad as his and my boyfriend didn't leave me over it.

[PT]

if your losing all your gains then your diet or workout isnt up to par. everyone will lose a few pounds but if your losing everything then your diet and workout isnt in check or your pct gear is fake

[fedorrulz]

i recommend pharmacutical grade nolva (as in tablets, offically sealed with pharm company stamp on it) as PCT. Research chemicals are hit and miss in my opinion.

[big an rich]

I have learned from being in the game for awhile. That you can not keep your gains if you come off for long periods. I too take 6 months sometimes longer. I have yet to see someone come of for 6 months to a year and keep solid gains. You can keep some but only what your body can maintain naturally. The ones that tell you can, Have never really come off for more than a year. That just my two cents. I have friends that compete too, and there diets are spot on. They too share the same opinion as me.

can't argue with that.

[big an rich]

if your losing all your gains then your diet or workout isnt up to par. everyone will lose a few pounds but if your losing everything then your diet and workout isnt in check or your pct gear is fake

I haven't lost all gains. One point of note is my strength does not go down, just weight. Maybe much of this is simply water bloat. I am still 10 lbs heavier than when I didn't juice and have 5-6% lower bf also so it hasn't been completely in vain.

Think I'll stick to HGH, IGF, Slin, T3, DNP, EPO and synthol in the future, just to be on the safe side

[IronMonkey]

I have learned from being in the game for awhile. That you can not keep your gains if you come off for long periods. I too take 6 months sometimes longer. I have yet to see someone come of for 6 months to a year and keep solid gains. You can keep some but only what your body can maintain naturally. The ones that tell you can, Have never really come off for more than a year. That just my two cents. I have friends that compete too, and there diets are spot on. They too share the same opinion as me.

It's all in your genetics. I'm a lucky SOB in this area. Before juice, I was 6'0", 195 lbs, maybe 12-13% bf. Couldn't break beyond that naturally, no matter how hard I lifted and how hard I dieted. Did a number of cycles over the last 4 years, bumped myself up to 260 @ about 10-11% bf. Due to other issues I had going on in my life, I stopped cycling, lifting, and dieting altogether for about 18 months, went completely sedentary, no juice...NOTHING. I maybe put on a couple pounds of fat (nothing major, I could still see all my abs) and I lost a total of 15 lbs LBM, but keep in mind, I ate like crap and did ZERO lifting whatsoever. I just started lifting and dieting again (naturally) about 4 weeks ago, and I've kept the same weight (245), but I've lost the few pounds of fat I previously accumulated (can visibly tell). In about 6-8 weeks, I plan on hopping on a 12-week lean bulker, T. Prop, Masteron, Anavar, and Winstrol (not all 4 at the same time). Looking to shred up even moreso and hold on to a solid 255-265 physique.

Anyways, what I'm getting at is that everyone's different. I have to wonder about your statement, though, because like I said, without the juice, I couldn't break 200, but I've been off juice for over 1.5 years and up until 4 weeks ago, I was living a completely sedentary lifestyle for 18 months. I never lost everything I gained from juice. In fact, I held on to 45 of the 60 or so lbs I gained, so 75% isn't bad, especially given I exceeded that "6 month, lose most/everything" claim 3 times over...