Lean/Cut Cycle for 1st timer

[jesset123]

40 yrs old
5' 10"
197 lbs
22.9% bf

Currently 3 months into a high intensity training program (started with the original Mike Metzner one with a great deal of success and have just started researching the next stage). On this I am doing a strength day every 3 days and doing low intensity cardio on the off days (65% of THR) for an hour minimum. Before that did curcuit training for a year and a half and got down to 16% bf but my strength/size changed minimally. Also do MMA 2 hours/week training (not competing).

Diet: I eat 6x/day, fairly clean meals that include a minimum of 100 g of protein suppliments at no more than 25 g/meal. I am also 3 weeks into taking Kre-Alkalyn EFX creatine which has helped with the reps with no sign of weight gain/water retention.

After years of contemplating, I have decided to do a bulk cycle but will not start that until the winter. What I am looking for is advice on leaning up. 15 years ago I did 3 cycles of Clenbuteral with limited results.

I do not want to put on a lot of bulk as this will attract too much unwanted attention for the wrong people. I have all but dismissed Winstrol because of the effect on the joints. Have given serious thought to Avavar as it is more readily available that both Primobolan and Masteron. At my body fat level, Halotestin doesnt seem like a good option.

For me, the order of importance for evaluating what to take has been:
1. results
2. side effects
3. longevity of results
4. cost

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Phate]

bf% is too high for a cycle of ANY AS yet, cut fat first

[BIGMAC250]

get on some test propianate and some tren.....take the tren eod or ed and take the test prop 2 or 3 times a week.....this is what i did and i saw some awesome results....i went from 6'1'' 285lbs close to 30% bf..... down to 246 at about 17 %bf.....i was also taking clen and t3.......i had a bad reaction with the t3 though.

[NATE0406]

get on some test propianate and some tren.....take the tren eod or ed and take the test prop 2 or 3 times a week.....this is what i did and i saw some awesome results....i went from 6'1'' 285lbs close to 30% bf..... down to 246 at about 17 %bf.....i was also taking clen and t3.......i had a bad reaction with the t3 though.

bro that is horriable advice. you really dont know what you are talking about. advising someone for there first cycle to use tren is not smart what so ever. not only that you couldnt have been more vauge on your advice. why would you advise someone to shot prop two times a week?

[Phate]

agreed^^^^ disregard the test prop/tren advise from bigmac

[BIGMAC250]

well thats what i did and it worked for me..... i was just putting it out there.....as far as it being his first cycle.....that was what i did for my first as well.... im not counting then dbol in HS.....but the test prop and tren and clen worked awesome for me....i mean the prop hurt like a mf sometimes but i dealt with it....but on the real.... how is that no good.

[BIGMAC250]

here check it out i even pulled this one off the site...the only diff id the use the prop eod and the tren gets used eod like i suggested and they ad winstol in the mix....i know its and intermediate cycle....but dont make me sound like i dont have a clue either...here see for urself http://www.steroid.com/intermediatecycle2.php

[Phate]

lol, we didn't say the cycle was bad, but that's an INTERMEDIATE CYCLE, which means the person should have at least two cycles under their belt and this guy is a first timer or BEGINNER, look at the BEGINNER CYCLE and it will be just test

[BIGMAC250]

i know i just felt like you guys were bashin on me for a second....but i mean i did 2 or 3 cycles of dbol in high school but i really dont count that as a real cycle....the first real one i did was that....i guess its just comes down to how bad you really want it when its time to make that decision...thats the only reason why i suggested it...i had good results with it so i would imagine he would too.

[Lemonada8]

anyways, i'd advise to lower ur bf% first cause all the complicaitons that come w/ AAS are increased by alot when your bf% is high, and if u did circuit training and got down to 16% bf how did it go back up? how long of a break was there from after ur circuit training and ur training now?
i'd advise keep workin out get down to lower than 18%bf and then u can start to look into a cycle....
when you get down there (using diet and exercise, this previous experience will definatly make the most of the AAS useage) you can look in to a beginner cycle consisting of test prop at 75mg/ED... that way you can see how ur body reacts to AAS....

but definately get the bf% down naturally, or even use hydroxycut or somehting like that.... that will help... and more cardio... and clean diet

[Phate]

i know i just felt like you guys were bashin on me for a second....but i mean i did 2 or 3 cycles of dbol in high school but i really dont count that as a real cycle....the first real one i did was that....i guess its just comes down to how bad you really want it when its time to make that decision...thats the only reason why i suggested it...i had good results with it so i would imagine he would too.

i understand where you're coming from, though your logic is a bit off, have you ever wondered why we add compounds every cycle instead of just starting with a test, deca, tren, winny, clen, t3 cycle as a first, or on the opposite note, why not just use test for every cycle, it's because your body has receptors that downgrade in a sense when you use AS, that's why a test first cycle is normally close to a test/deca second cycle, so telling him to use tren for a first cycle would be a bad idea because 1) he wouldn't be able to handle the sides, at least most people couldn't and 2) i would seriously downgrade those receptors making cycles after it less effective than they normally would be

[jesset123]

Thanks phate for the explanation of why to start with a beginner cycle. Lemonada answered my next question which was at what level of BF would it become ok to start.

Answer to your question Lemonada, an injury caused me to stop w/o all together for about 2.5 months and that's when the weight came back - poor eating during that time as well. So much for the beach body this summer but there's always next year!

[Lemonada8]

heck its only may, you can definately lose some bf% and maybe a cycle at the end of the summer... if you really clean up ur diet and do alot of cardio... that will help alot! and you can throw in a fat burner like lipo-6 or hydroxycut hardcore...
when you say you are eating protein suppliments.... does that mean protein shakes? cause if you have haviung that much protein from shakes, you should look to eat more lean meat cause that protein is way better than shake protien and the mojority of ur protein shold come from food sources

[firestar]

maybe the clens were shit?

[jesset123]

Never thought about the clen being shit. Could be. I can drop the weight with some dedication. Summer BBQ season just will make it challenging. The majority of my protein is from supplements (at least 60% if not more). I have tried eating more REAL food but just cant seem to work it in. I have supplemental questions about the advice given here RE: hydroxycut et al but will post a new one for that. Thanks to all for the advice.