Short burst cycling- explained

[marcus300]

Due to the high number of PM's i am getting on this subject i thought i would post this summary what i wrote some time ago regarding short (burst) cycling-

Short burst cycling explained-
One of the best approaches Ive ever used to build muscle tissue is short burst cycling, before i go any further i want to state that short cycling can be implemented to what ever level you are, its not only for the advance Bodybuilder it can be for all stages, its just the amount of gear Mg is adjusted to suit the individual's level. The best part of this thread will be aimed at advanced bodybuilders because of the high dose used with burst cycling but no discussion on dosages will be made on the open board unless it needs to be discussed.

Muscle tissue doesn't grow continuously over long periods of time, weight gain and muscular growth doesn't happen that way. Not in infants, toddlers, teenagers, or even weight trainers. Instead, weight gain seems to come in spurts or surges. It's amazing how you can train hard and eat very well year round yet only seem to make progress in quick little infrequent spurts of growth even with taking all the AAS compounds the body still gets use to whats being taken and builds up tolerance and adapts. If you look back over your cycle history you will notice the growth spurts within the cycles, we don't keep on growing because if we did we would all be 500lbs+. This method can build huge tissue gains in that short growth window if everything is in place.


Pre -Cycle Primming- First you must open the growth window and create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow, muscle receptors will get very excitable and upgrade to except more glucose which will shift the muscle to fat ratio which in turn will create muscle tissue to build very quickly, when this is coupled with a short burst cycle right after a prime the results can be outstanding, some of you will understand this from rebound cycling after a comp, its very similar except the prime isn't as harsh as the pre-cycle comp diet and the prime is only directed at creating and opening the growth window for the cycle, its a pre-cycle prime.(details of primming is in a separate thread).Hgh protocol should be ran during the prime at low dose and kicked up when cycle starts.


Duration - Short burst cycling usually last for around 30 days up to 6 weeks, there is no set rule on the length of cycle and normally it can be open ended and stopped when growth slows/stops. You have to listen to the body and adjust, with burst cycling it shouldn't be ran for long periods of time, longer doesn't mean more or better gains.Keep it short and feed the growth window and build the tissue and stop, recover and maintain.

Dosages- The dose for a short burst cycle is alot more than you would normally use in a standard length cycle, because of the prime and the body being in a very anabolic environment it can take on board alot more than usual and over loading androgens will fully push the body to grow, it also takes time for the body to adjust to the high level of hormones in relation to sides so before you are experiencing them your off cycle. Over your cycle history you would of tried the heavy dosages and seen the sides come and where its not worth the risk's to muscle gain, this is why its kept to a short period before the body can adjust with sides the cycle is over and growth is completed. Individual dosages are designed off your cycle history, there is no set dose it all depends on what your cycle history looks like, someone who normally uses 500mg per wk will be completely different to the guy who uses 1500mgs per wk when designing short burst cycles, but both will have the benefit of using high amounts what they normally don't run.

Side effects- If your looking for the best effective way to run hormones without to much negative feedback staying on for long periods of time probably isn't the best option to take. Ive had far better blood work back from high burst cycles than when Ive ran longer cycles at alot less dosage. There is minimal impact on the HPTA and recovery is far easier than trying to bring back natural production from a long cycle, there is some elevated aggression because of the high amount of androgens but overall this can be channeled into your workouts. PCT should be painless and within normal boundaries of how you recover. Blood pressure in some can be a problem but not serious but needs to be checked throughout the period so aids can be used to combat the problem if needed. Water retention is low but can be elevated if this system is ran for long periods, but if there is a problem normal AI can be used to help this issue and OTC herbal diuretics. Tren user's within this system get bad BW results due to the harshness of the compound but boy does it produce gains but you have to be prepared to have a hard recovery and sides, kinda defeats the object but again, down to the individual.

Compounds- Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle, i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT, i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more. Short ester's and fast acting compounds are used and the exact compounds depends on what your trying to achieve but normally its Test based or what you respond best to, 2 /3 compounds are ran at a time but no need to run loads, keep them limited less is better,Ive even known guys used 1 compound with stunning results. HGH is increased to a high amount when cycle starts just like all the compounds. I did a study once with some BB's and the dosages range alot with all different HGH protocol's which is interesting reading but i can go into that at a later date.

Maintenance - Due to the HPTA being shut down or suppressed for a short period of time its far better to get it to respond when the cycle is over, remember being shut down for weeks on end cause's serious issues about recovery and maintenance, shorter shut downs produces easier recovery no matter how much you have pushed in the body,which in turn results in better maintenance which equals keeping more gains. Once you have shut down your HPTA its down and its the period of shutdown what cause's damage, would you rather shut down your HPTA for 14 weeks or 30 days?? or continually shutting down and recovering isn't the other best approach either, depends on the person's goals and what he wants to achieve with BBing, some of my friends who are at a high level use short burst cycling coupled with bridge's because of what they have to compete with on stage and get ready for photo shoots nearly all the time. Recovering from a standard or long cycle it cost muscle tissue while trying to recovery even with all the peptide's chemicals this day and age we still lose tissue, with this theory losing tissue is limited.

Diet - After the prime as been implemented correctly, the cycle should be started and this day should line up with the first high carb day after the low day carbs within the prime, calories from then on should be increased to over maintenance, different opinions here to how much, again down to knowing your body and how it responds, many who increase too fast will create huge water retention due to the increase of carbs, some don't and over load can be implemented, if your one of these guys who has water retention when carbs are increased after being depleted then over maintenance should be ran for 1 week ish then, overload should be used, if your not and you don't carry the water from the carbs increase calories well over maintenance and go with growth,also depends on how much of a prime as been ran!! feed the dramatic growth what can occur if you have done the procedure correctly.Over eat, over feed, overload on the first day of the cycle straight after the prime from low carb phase.One last thing and i hope many understand this- diet is 24hr dedication while running the theory.

Training - Train to how you grow, best advice here is heavy intense workouts to total failure,HIT style or what ever works for you, you have the answers on how you grow. Intense is the key, stimulation of the whole body to grow, don't waste this time, remember to train how i am recommending is impossible for 10-12 weeks, its to hard and wouldn't last 4 weeks, before a turn around is needed and lay up from the heavy training session, so with this in mind you can mentally focus on this because its only for around 30 days long. Ive used many ways myself but the best for me with this style of cycling was heavy drop sets to failure plus forced, swapped to pre-exhausted drop sets to failure the following next total body workout, then swapped again. Workouts are short but seriously intense but you have the food/chemicals and energy to support this for this short period so don't waste it, Ive seen huge amounts of tissue build from this, myself i created 10lbs of clean tissue in a very short period of time after PCT and maintenance. Everybody's different to how much they build and comes down to if you have primed correctly, designed the perfect stack for you, placed the correct amount of mg's in the blood every day and how well you train to build fresh tissue.


When i was first learnt this method my whole body changed to a serious level,I never went back to the normal way of cycling, it suited me so much and the growth was amazing. Borreson sat me down and explained in detail how this can happen and to this day things have moved forward so much from Paul's day but i always remember him saying "please try it you will be amazed" he was right and it could for you. Look at Dorian what he did straight after a show....he was back in the gym the day after while the other were on vacation, he was using the growth window to create a very anabolic environment for tissue to grow and he used it, thats why in some years he produced some serious muscle tissue gains what has been seen since due to his method and style, many top pro's used this system but its tweaked to suit their individual's needs.

Please note, i am not saying do short burst cycles with little time off and then back on short burst cycle, no i haven't gone into that side of things, all i am doing is explaining the whole theory behind short burst cycling with first hand experience from myself and many bodybuilder's.
__________________

[Amorphic]

bump for a good read

[ChuckLee]

Excellent read.
Any applicative example?

[marcus300]

Excellent read.
Any applicative example?

Dosages are worked of the individuals cycles history when we talk about burst cycles, i wouldnt like to openly post dosages just in case newbies think this is the way forward. When we talk about burst dosages they are higher than you would normally use but only for a short period of time, if the prime is done and training/diet is in order huge gains in muscle tissue can be built.

I once did a personal study regarding burst cycles along side HGH and the different protocols used when using GH. The findings helped me design further cycles for clients and help me understand the growth process when primming and going into a burst, myself and some advanced BB's used many doasges........infact my fellow friend Pinn was a subject and he used the most mgs per day than any of the others, i wont go into the study fact by fact but if you use the correct compounds what you recover well from and usually just a good main dose - ie "Testosterone " results can be outstanding and muscle tissue can be built without any major upsets.

[marcus300]

Just notice another thread regarding this subject- opps

[ecto9]

Great read. Did you say you've got another thread on "priming" before starting a cycle?

Please post that link, Thanks.

[marcus300]

Great read. Did you say you've got another thread on "priming" before starting a cycle?

Please post that link, Thanks.

Priming before a cycle explained

Please read the basic ideas around priming,

You need to work off a basic diet one which your maintaining on, this is the diet what you prime from, its all about confusing the body, Ive found that carb cycling is the best way to prime, it also keeps hold of valuable muscle tissue if its done correctly,

The best way Ive found is 3-5 days low carb 40% less than your maintenance diet then followed by 1 day high carb 15% higher than the maintenance diet, you will have to adjust the low carb days to suit your body but don't go near 7 days low carbs, a common problem with reducing carbs is that over time the metabolic rate can and will begin to adapt, when carbs stays low for an extended period of time usually at the 7 day mark and up, fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids, levels of lipoprotien lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop, these both effect overall basal metabolism and are part of the starvation response which off sets reductions in energy intake and is very common to muscle wastage, so adjust to your body's response but in my opinion don't go 7 days or more,

The one high carb day should be introduced around 3-5 day mark of low carbs, the high carb day at around day 3-5 this interrupts the starvation response which restores thyroid levels back to normal while also suppressing the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein ( which rises after day 7 of a lower carb intake) which results in no muscle tissue wastage,

Also if you catch this right at when the glycogen levels drop which is around 3-5 day mark and you follow this by the high carb day with an increase of calories even higher than what the body had been use to previous to the reduction, the body responds by increasing thermogenesis which in turn helps the whole process,

Everybody is different but ive got alot of personally logs/reports which show muscle wastage on carb cycling at the 7 day mark and up, the body re-adjusts itself at this stage and holds onto the fat cells while using the precious muscle tissue as energy, which in turn the individual will lose more muscle tissue than stopping short this process at 3-5 day mark of the low carb,

The key is tricking the metabolism into losing fat instead of muscle tissue by rotating carbs but not letting the body trigger the starvation response, also Ive found that before any type of carb cycling you must of establish a basic diet which you have ran for a number of weeks in where the body isn't gaining or losing any size just maintaining what its got, this is very important because this established diet is what you work off so we get the body to respond the best by dropping bf and holding onto muscle tissue,

As you priming your body goes into a environment were muscle tissue can be built very fast, just look how much you put on after a contest, this whole process you take advantage of and put it together with a cycle and hit all comounds hard and fast, an increase in calories is needed everyday of the cycle, you must support the amount of AAS and growth the body wants to grow, as soon as you start the cycle your body is very anabolic so take advantage of this and hit it hard, growth comes on fast,


Dont set a target weight for the prime, the prime isnt really about weight loss its about priming the body for the intense cycle/training, do the prime as slow as possible the body reacts better if its done this way, make sure you carb cycle of the maintance diet what you have now, confuse the body dont do anything drastic slowly build the enviroment for growth, trust me do this part spot on and the gains are untrue, the body only grows in short bursts this is a natural thing from babys to teenagers, so go with the flow of the body just create the body ready for the growth and very intense training,

Make sure your on a low dose gh throughout the prime,

slowly confuse the body into burning fat as fuel then restore the gyl store with the 1 day high carb, but this 1 day wont full them up only restore abit so next time you low carb for 3-5 day even more fat will be burnt and the process of creating an anabolic enviroment is getting acheived.

when you start to reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen, so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,

This overall procedure puts your body into a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow couple this with a cycle and growth is amazing, but i must stress the prime as to be done correctly to take full advantage

[ecto9]

The key is tricking the metabolism into losing fat instead of muscle tissue by rotating carbs but not letting the body trigger the starvation response, also Ive found that before any type of carb cycling you must of establish a basic diet which you have ran for a number of weeks in where the body isn't gaining or losing any size just maintaining what its got, this is very important because this established diet is what you work off so we get the body to respond the best by dropping bf and holding onto muscle tissue,

when you start to reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen, so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,

I especially like these things you pointed out. I've never heard it put this way before. Carb cycling has been a mystery to me. I do know from the past several months I've lessened water retention and belly fat greatly by cutting my carbs down. Cutting naturally now before Aug. cycle.

Gonna give this 3-5 cut & 1 on Carb cycling a try. It makes gerat sense.

I also like the part where you stated we need to start from the diet we are at now (over the past few mo.) I've been in that process.

Thanks for all the great insights bro, Peace...

[marcus300]

I especially like these things you pointed out. I've never heard it put this way before. Carb cycling has been a mystery to me. I do know from the past several months I've lessened water retention and belly fat greatly by cutting my carbs down. Cutting naturally now before Aug. cycle.

Gonna give this 3-5 cut & 1 on Carb cycling a try. It makes gerat sense.

I also like the part where you stated we need to start from the diet we are at now (over the past few mo.) I've been in that process.

Thanks for all the great insights bro, Peace...

Try it, its a great tool to have and the approach is excellent at opening the growth window for a cycle and will create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow.

[Pinnacle]

Pretty well written article by TWIN PEAKS on carb cycling


Introduction


What I am about to present is not a new paradigm, or r*********ary approach to diet. Nor is it the end-all, be-all to dieting; there are many viable approaches.

This diet is, on the other hand, an easy (relatively speaking) approach to diet that is physiologically and psychologically rewarding. Moreover, it is rather malleable and also forgiving, yet effective. For these reasons, I am astounded that it has not caught on to a greater extent (in some form or another), and played a bigger role in the dieting r*********.

This is the first installment of a multi-part article. Here, we will briefly discuss my background (as it relates to this diet), its genesis (in the form I present), the basic tenets of the diet, as well as the basic diet structure. We will also discuss, briefly, its psychological benefits, as well as its physiological strengths and underpinnings. Psychology and physiology, as you will see (and as Par Deus has propounded) are inextricably intertwined, in the world of diet and food. Or, "food and mood," as Par is so fond of saying.

However, this installment will address theory and science only minimally, out of necessity. Not only would this article be way too long, but more importantly, I'd be going well beyond my strengths, and I know my limits. For those seeking a deeper understanding, Dawza, who is far more apt than I in these regards, will provide a more in depth analysis in the final article in this series.

Also in future installments we will discuss synergistic supplementation, variations based on one's phenotype, tweaks for continued fat loss (should they prove necessary), variations for bulking or a steady recomposition, and other variations for those losing too quickly (we should all have that problem shouldn't we?), those not losing quickly enough, and for those looking for a more manageable "lifestyle" approach. Actually, in its most basic form, as presented here, Carbohydrate Cycling will be a rather quick fat loss plan for most.


Basic Definitions


First, let's get some definitions out of the way. This is not a glossary but rather an explanation of a few terms that are often used in a variety of manners. If the definition of a word or term used can be found objectively, I expect that you know it, or you'll look it up, or you don't give a rat's ass.

"Diet"
A way of eating. Period. Unlike in common usage, it does not refer to the goal of "weight loss."

"Cut" or "Cutting"
A hypo-caloric diet where the goal is to decrease overall body fat, while concomitantly maintaining or even gaining muscle mass. Often, a small amount of muscle loss is expected and acceptable.

"Mass Phase," "Bulk" or "Bulking"
A hyper-caloric diet where the goal is to increase overall muscle mass, while concomitantly maintaining or even losing body fat. Some such diets indeed allow for, or even plan on, fat gain, albeit minimal (hopefully).

"Recomposition"
Coining a new phrase, Avant Labs style, the concept of a recomposition was previously unheard of. But essentially, it is a slow, yet steady body transformation whereby you seek to both lose body fat and gain lean body mass, concomitantly. Beyond "newbie gains," rapid changes in the extremely obese or with the use of androgens, it is widely believed that a recomposition is highly inefficient, or even impossible. It is not. Utilizing numerous nutrient-partitioning techniques related to training style, and proper supplementation, recomposition can be accomplished rather effectively.


In The Beginning


Carbohydrate cycling is something I stumbled on when I trained for my first bodybuilding contest in 1996. It was not something I heard or read about, specifically. While I am certain I did not invent this concept, and others probably had used it in some shape or form, I devised it of my own accord based on the "little" that I knew back then.

How? Why? Well, I had struggled my whole life with being over-fat. Indeed prior to cutting for the show I was probably at around 20% body fat, and this was "thin" for me. I doubt I had ever been below 15%, and yet I committed to being on stage in posing trunks--in 16 weeks. Why? I had finally accumulated a decent amount of muscle mass, and well, why not.

I "knew" then that I "needed" to keep my fat content low, and protein high (the quotes reflect that I have a generally different view now, though this certainly is not a high-fat diet). I also "knew" that I needed some carbs, but that my calorie reduction must come from this macronutrient (as I always kept fat low, and wasn't about to reduce protein intake), and I knew I needed (as a genetic endomorph) to keep insulin under control.

I also knew that I hated calorie restriction, that I never stuck to a diet long term, and that I hated dieting monotony. I also hated (and still hate) counting calories -- I admit it, I am lazy. And despite this, and poor genetics with a high body fat setpoint, I needed to get to sub 5% body fat.

Oh, for some context, back then I thought Hot Stuff was the bomb -- so except for protein, I didn't use any supplements; the point being, with the exception of a protein powder, no supplements are necessary to make this diet work. On the other hand, supplements have come a long way since the mid to late 90s, and so has my knowledge on this topic. Today, there are many effective products that will contribute to the success of the diet (or the speed at which you will achieve it), depending on your goals, your phenotype, and your wallet, of course. Again, we'll get to this in future installments, but for now, the diet beckons.

So how could I, with my knowledge, genes, and personality traits, devise a plan that would be effective, and so user-friendly that even I would stick to it long enough that I could stand on stage, practically naked? Oh, and while 16 weeks may seem like a long cut, this time-frame did not allow any weeks to pass where I could simply maintain body fat. There was no margin for error. Nope, I needed to lose a steady 1 ? to 2 pounds of fat per week to attain my goal.

The answer - at least the one I came up with - was "Carbohydrate Cycling." My plan was that if I cycled my carb intake, I would have some days that were unusually strict. This was not a problem for me (being super-strict for short period of times), especially if I had a reward. Enter, the high carb day, where I allowed myself to eat as much as I wanted. What's the catch? Well, we will get to that soon enough.

But in the end, I would average out to a low carb intake level sufficient to remain hypocaloric, for the week. Or, at least, that was the plan. So yes, basically this was designed, originally, to meet my psychological needs. Oh, I also thought it a good idea to "keep the body guessing." Though I really didn't know what this meant. I had never heard of a refeed, and especially not of leptin.

Hell, leptin was just being discovered back then. So many of the positive physiological benefits of cycling carbohydrates were unknown to me then, except that it "kept the body guessing." You see, while knowing very little about biochemistry and physiology, I had the general sense that we bodybuilders were always battling homeostasis. Other than this general belief, I had no idea why in 16 weeks I never got stuck or hit a wall.


The Concept: Cycling 101


There are three types of days while on this diet:

High Carb
Low Carb
No Carb Days
Generally, the three days are rotated, or cycled, equally. Again, I will stress that this can, and should, betweaked, based on the individual's goals, geno and pheno-types, and dieting history. Indeed, much of this will be discussed in future installments. Here, we will lay out the basic plan, which is designed for relatively rapid fat loss for most individuals and the one that got me into contest ready condition, twice.

Carbohydrate manipulation is the key here, but we will back into this by discussing our protein and fat intake, which each remain constant. Bear in mind the multitude of goals and assumptions this diet balances.


Nuts And Bolts: The Basic Plan



Generally
This plan is based on eating six times per day. An acceptable alternative is five meals daily, and if you so choose, be sure to keep the daily ratios consistent, as each meal will require more food.

Protein Consumption
Protein: the easy part. Actually, protein is the foundation of this diet. It is not to be skipped, skimped upon, taken lightly, or otherwise reduced simply because the diet does not focus on it. The significance of protein cannot be overstated, though such details are beyond the scope of this article. We shall not get into the minimum requirements for a bodybuilder, which types of proteins are superior to others, and the numerous other issues that have perplexed the scholars and been debated ad nauseam.

Suffice it to say, that one gram per pound of bodyweight is the absolute minimum, and there is no maximum on this diet. In other words, at each and every meal, of each and every day, you can feel free to dig in to as much protein as you wish. Though there are some rules. Beyond these rules, and for simplicity's sake, I will assume you are eating a sufficient quantity at each and every meal and leave it at that.

Assuming you are eating six meals each day, regardless of which type of day, you will eat a minimum of 1/6 of your total daily minimum requirement for protein at each meal. Thus, a 200-pound individual should eat at least 33 grams of protein at each and every meal. If five meals is the necessary course, the same individual should eat a minimum of 40 grams of protein per meal.

You can eat more, but to overindulge at one meal, does not excuse a deficient amount at another. In other words, do not shortchange your protein consumption at any meal.

Again, this is the minimum, so if you are still hungry eat up. Of course, like any other macronutrient, too much protein can hinder fat loss or even promote fat gain. This is another instance where I am putting some faith in the body's sense of self-regulation. For the few of you who eat too much protein and fat loss stalls, you will want to limit total daily consumption to no more than 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Most of your protein requirements must be satisfied from very lean protein sources. Indeed, four of your meals must use lean protein sources, while the remaining one or two may come from a higher-fat source. For our purposes, a "lean source" is one that has no more than 10% of its calories from fat. It is important that you look at the calorie breakdown here, as a product may say "10% Fat" but refer to the fact that 10% of its macronutrients are fat. And because fat is more than twice as calorically dense as carbs or protein, it will derive more than 10% of its calories from fat. Now, as I have stated, this is a simple diet, so if you don't want to figure out what you can and cannot eat, I have provided a list of generally acceptable lean protein choices.

In addition, one or two meals should contain a higher-fat protein choice. Again, I have provided a list for easy reference, but for those of you with peculiar tastes, you can choose any protein that derives about 20-25% of its calories from fat. If, however, you'd rather eat a lean protein, then for that meal you should add about 10-15 grams of fat from the "Fat List" below, in the fat consumption section. For example, if you have six meals, and four have protein sources from list A and two from list B, you are fine. You cannot have more than two from list B. And if you have none from list B, and all six from list A, then two meals must have an added fat source from the list below.

Approved Lean Protein Sources (A)



Chicken (white meat)
Turkey (white meat)
Tuna Fish (can)
Fish (flounder, tuna (fatty or not), salmon, shark, etc.)
Shellfish (all types)
Protein (preferably whey post workout, and casein before bed; MRPs must be low-carb)
Lean beef (including lean cuts of steak)
Cottage Cheese (0 or 1% fat)
Egg whites (egg beaters)
Approved Higher-Fat Protein Sources (B)


Chicken (dark meat)
Turkey (dark meat)
Eggs (half whites, half whole eggs)
Steak and other meats (not exceptionally high fat cuts)
Cottage Cheese (Whole Milk)
Fat Consumption
As for fats, this diet does not worry too much about them. Nor will we discuss them much, save for this brief discussion here. While this is not a high fat (or Ketogenic) diet, it certainly is not a low fat diet. When I first started cycling carbs, I kept fats to probably less than twenty grams a day. Here, I recommend keeping dietary fats on the low side, with the majority of fats coming from supplemented EFAs (essential fatty acids)-specifically fish oil (high in long chain ***** 3 fatty acids -- EPA/DHA).

Why fish oil? There are so many good reasons that a detailed discussion can be an article unto itself. For our purposes, it is sufficient to know that it has all the benefits of other EFA sources (such as flax and hemp oil) and in addition, has been shown to increase leptin sensitivity and exert positive effects on body composition much more efficiently than other EFAs (this is one of the important nutrient partitioning "tricks" one must employ for a successful recomposition).

Now, on to the practicality of it. First, you will be getting some fats in your lean protein sources (probably between 10 and 20 grams of fat) and a few grams from the carb sources (another 10 to 20 grams on high carb day). Second, at least two meals per day will include protein of the higher-fat variety. And if not, then you should add a fat source from the list below.

Fat Sources (an amount equal to 10 to 15 grams of fat).


(Natural) Peanut Butter
Flax Oil
Heavy Whipping Cream
Mayonnaise
Hemp Seed Oil
Olive Oil
Third, you will be supplementing with fish oil at 10 to 20 grams a day -- the more the better. This assumes you are using a standard fish oil supplement which, on average, contains one gram of oil and is 30% EPA/DHA. Should you choose the superior version, you may consume a bit less. I recommend you either split it up equally across all meals, or split it in half, and consume it with two meals. If you absolutely refuse to take fish oil, despite my pleas that you should (and the evidence that will be provided in the third installment), add in one to two servings of flaxseed or hempseed oil daily.

Carbohydrate Consumption and the Cycling Process
Ah, the carbohydrate. By now (if you haven't skipped ahead, and I know some of you have - shame on you) you are saying, "its about time!" Well, the protein and fat portions of this diet are relatively easy to follow, but that does not mean they are unimportant. To the contrary, they are critical. This diet is one, however, that focuses on daily manipulation of carbohydrate consumption. First, we will discuss how we do this; then we will discuss additional concerns important to this diet. As previously mentioned, in a future installment, we will discuss in greater depth the theoretical and scientific underpinnings of the carbohydrate manipulation.

As mentioned, we have three types of days in the diet, and they vary only by the amount of carbohydrate that is consumed. They are the high carbohydrate day (high carb), the low carbohydrate day (low carb), and the no (approaching zero) carbohydrate day (no carb). Again, we are assuming six meals per day, so you will need to adjust if you follow a five-meal plan.

[Pinnacle]

High Carb Day


On your high carb day, four of the meals (three if you are only eating five meals) can have as much carbohydrates (yes, they must also be from the approved list - we love lists) as you like. But remember, you must eat the minimum amount of protein at each meal as discussed above. So for you carb gluttons out there, you might want to make sure you eat your protein source before truly loading up on those carbs first.

Also, each one of those meals must include a small piece of fruit (again, a requirement before downing enough other carbs to the point of no return). Almost any fruit will do (save bananas, kiwis, avocado, and other very high calorie or high fat fruits). We are looking for a small serving of fresh fruit, say between 50 and 100 calories worth. The fructose from fruit will help keep liver glycogen stores full and keep your body in the fed state as opposed to starvation-mode. And, if only consumed in small amounts, is not likely to spill over into adipose.

Also --and this is important-- you can choose which meals (3 of 5 or 4 of 6) will have carbs and which don't, but the meal preceding and following your workouts must be a carbohydrate meal. Obviously, make sure you leave sufficient time between your pre-workout meal and your workout, or limit the quantity of carbs at this meal, lest your body succumb to reverse peristalsis. Other than that, it's up to you, as I don't want to bog you down with too many "rules" (we have plenty already). The other two meals will be made up of protein only, and, while there is a minimum amount, as always, there is no maximum.

So to sum up, all but two of your meals will have a small piece of fruit, and as much carbohydrate from the approved list as you like. The goal is to eat until complete physical, emotional, and thus, physiological satiety. You are not expected to gorge yourself, nor are you expected to exercise the usual strict self-restraint.

As I said previously, I am a big believer in self-regulation by the mind and body. You are not to worry or stress about whether you are eating too much, or too little. If you eat too many carbs one meal, you will probably eat less the next, as you'll still be full (just make sure you get the protein in). The beauty of this plan is its simplicity-you are not "aiming" for any number. Rather, you are aiming for the subjective feelings that I just discussed, a satisfied stomach and mental state. You should not "want" more.

Nor should you eat more than you want. Relax and go with the flow; it is quite hard to mess up the high carb day, if you stick to the right carbs. And you will learn your body's response as you go on. Increase your carbohydrate consumption if you are not "satisfied." You want a constant feeling of fullness, all day, such that you don't want to eat further. You need to be in tune to your body, and this comes with practice.

Most people find themselves looking forward to, if not salivating at the thought of, the upcoming high carb day. This is no surprise. Indeed, it is by design, and how I came up with the plan for myself. It is a psychological reward, satisfying your emotional need to eat. It makes the very strict part of the diet (which we will get to) bearable. It is a small but frequent reward to hang on to that also has these profound psychological and, equally as important, physiological benefits.

However, some of you will have a difficult time with the high carb day. Stress and concerns of eating too much will plague you. Not counting every gram of carb, and every calorie consumed, will haunt you. For those of you with such concerns I remind you that first, you are supposed to eat a lot of food on this day, to make sure that your weekly caloric deficit is not too low, and second, that no one should ever dread high carb day. The point is to eat as much as you want; not stuff yourself like a Thanksgiving turkey.


Low Carb Day


The low carb day is a bit trickier. Actually, it's the most difficult of the bunch. The anal group out there will love it though, as there are specific macronutrient goals. For those of you who, like me, deplore counting, fret not. There is a way around it (we'll discuss this privately later my lazy brethren).

Here, three meals (two if you are only eating five meals) may contain carbs. Again, one rule is that at least the meal following your workout must be a carb meal. The others you can schedule as you see fit. Here, carb amounts are limited, however. We are seeking to eat approximately one gram of carbohydrate (from the list) per pound of bodyweight each low carb day. So our hypothetical 200 pound dieter would eat about 66 grams of carbs in each of three meals of the day, and the others would be just protein. Oh, and don't forget your small piece of fruit, at these carb meals, as well.

Now, recall that this plan is designed for simplicity. So it is best if you simply learn general portions of the carbohydrates you choose to eat. I'd prefer that you don't measure out your carbs strictly; but for the exceptionally anal, this is your chance to shine. For those like me, the goal is a satisfied, but not full stomach. The subjective feeling to strive for is where you'd like to have more, but know you don't need it.


No Carb Day


The no carb day is the simplest, yet most physically challenging day. For most, the cyclical nature of the diet will make this day a relatively easy emotional challenge, however. It also, I am willing to bet, will be the most controversial day, among the dieting community. Yes, I am prepared to be tarred and feathered. Hell, I may enjoy it. Regardless, it is the key to this diet. And it involves, quite literally, no carbohydrates. Okay I lied: a few sneak in with your green veggies; as with any good rule, there is an exception.

Here, you will stick to your six (or five) meals, and only consume protein (and some fats); again from the list, and again, at least meeting the prescribed minimum. Unless "masticatory boredom" sets in, however, I doubt you will have any trouble eating your minimums, and you likely will eat far more. However, do not be surprised if you eat less than you expect, since eating protein alone can cause one to feel satiated more rapidly. This may seem like a painful or difficult day, but in practice it's not that bad. Trust me. And remember, a high carb day is just around the corner.


Veggies


No, I did not forget. You won't find veggies (except the truly calorically dense ones) on the carb list. And here, I am referring to green leafy, low calorie, fibrous vegetables. Things like salad (no dressing), cabbages, escarole, broccoli, spinach, zucchini, squash, and kale are appropriate. Generally, any vegetable that contains less than 50 calories per cup will suffice.

Each and every day, whether it be a high, low, or no carb day, at least three meals, each and every day should include one cup of green veggies. It can be with or without your carb meals. I don't care, though you may find it more pleasing to the palate to consume your vegetables with your no carb meals.

Now, on to the good stuff: the lists. Don't get overly excited because you aren't going to see most of your favorite goodies on here. Indeed, it is a relatively sparse list, given the plethora of carb sources found in grocery stores.


Approved Carbohydrates:
Brown rice
Oats (Slow Cooked Preferred)
Sweet potatoes or Yams
Fiber One (All Bran) Cereal
Starchy Veggies (corn, peas, etc.)
Beans/Legumes
Approved Yet Limited Carbohydrates**
Whole-wheat pasta
Whole grain breads, pitas, etc.
** These may only be consumed on high carb days, and only for one meal per high carb day

[Pinnacle]

Part 2

Many people find a random three-day cycle as outlined in my first installment to be difficult, lifestyle-wise. If this is you, we can resolve this problem relatively easily. Here is one way:


Monday, Wednesday, and Friday - No carb days
Tuesday and Saturday - High carb days
Thursday and Sunday - Low carb days
This schedule assumes a "normal" life. Should your schedule vary, and for the gravediggers and college kids out there, you may want a different plan, but my hope is that this will appeal to the masses, while simultaneous teaching the rest of you how to properly manipulate the diet to match your lifestyle.

Just keep the following concepts in mind:


Try not to put two no carb days back-to-back
Certainly do not put two high carb days back-to-back
Maintain what amounts to (roughly) a weekly ratio of 1:1:1 of the three types of days; and error towards the lower calorie side rather than the high calorie side

The Life-Style Cycle


The Lifestyle Cycle is aptly named. It is designed for those who wish to "live life", enjoy the pleasures of food (and drink), friends, and social gatherings. It is a plan designed for maintenance, not body-fat loss, so you need to be "satisfied" with you current level of fitness. It can be used to get through an extended vacation or a long stretch of holidays (say from Thanksgiving until New Year) while you are otherwise cutting, or a period in your life when improvement is not a priority.

Yes, unlike most authors on the topic of diet I am conceding that (1) there are times when it is acceptable (hell even desirable) to eat for the sake of enjoyment alone, and (2) it is okay to be satisfied and not always seeking to achieve an improved physical state (which is obviously doomed to failure and self-loathing). This Lifestyle Cycle is based on the "ordinary" lifestyle of an "average" individual.

If you have a peculiar way of life or just specific plans on specific days of a specific week, feel free to adjust accordingly so long as you understand the principles at work, and keep the weekly ratios the same. Likewise, if you gain fat easily you may need to cut back some on the gluttony, and the converse is true if you don't.

Here is a weekly cycle that should work nicely for most:

Monday = No Carb
Tuesday = Low Carb
Wednesday = High Carb
Thursday = No Carb
Friday = Low carb
Saturday = High Carb+
Sunday = Low Carb
Now, if you are paying attention, you are saying to yourself "WTF is high carb+?" And you are probably also thinking, "sounds interesting," as you lick your lips.
Well, it is interesting, and I think you'll like it. It is like a regular high carb day except:


Any carbs are acceptable for your carb meals
You may drink alcohol during one of your carb meals
You must keep fats as low as possible (except continue with fish oil supplementation)
In addition, once every other week, your middle of the week high carb day can have one "high carb+" meal. Implicit in this statement is the fact that this middle of the week high carb day can also be moved.

Wednesday is optimal, but if the big dinner you have planned, or the office party, or hot date, falls on a Tuesday or Thursday, fell free to swap days. I would only warn that if you moved it to Thursday, Friday should become a no carb day, as you'd want to buffer two high carb days with a small period of depletion. So, for example, let's say the hot date fell on a Thursday. I'd recommend switching it up as follows:


Monday = Low Carb
Tuesday = No Carb
Wednesday = Low Carb
Thursday = High Carb
Friday = No carb
Saturday = High Carb+
Sunday = Low Carb

The Bulk Cycle


Can one bulk while cycling carbs? Of course. Why would one want to? Now that is a more complex question. Essentially, it is a method of bulking while keeping fat gain minimal. The diet is designed to keep your body in a Fed State much of the week, thereby keeping you (mostly) anabolic . Can anyone bulk while cycling carbohydrates? Yes, albeit differently depending on body-type.

First, I am going to discuss how one would bulk if he or she has any endomorphic tendencies. For such an individual, which I expect will be most of us, I recommend three high carb days, three low carb days, and one no carb day. For a pure endomorph, or someone with extreme endomorphic tendencies (i.e. you add body-fat easier than a hypothyroid hippo) you'll want to add an extra no carb day, and eliminate a low carb day, at the very least.

Tweaking for body-type, a pure ****morph would (typically) be better served doing three high carb days and four low carb days, whereas a pure ectomorph would be best off with the converse: four high carb days and three low carb days. Understand that these are general guidelines and recommended starting places. Few of us are purely any one body-type but rather a blend of the two. So you are best off if you monitor, and tweak, as you go along.

When setting up such a plan for any body type, keep in mind the following principles:

Try not to stack more than two high carb days back-to-back (save for the endomorph)
Do not put no carb days back-to-back
Put your high carb days on days with your most difficult, highest volume workouts
Put your no carb days on your off days, to the extent possible
Allow one cheat meal weekly, where you can eat and drink what you like-after all, this is a bulk

Cyclical Diet & Training


Most readers are not just dieting, thankfully. So it's high time we discussed optimizing your cycle with your training. One can tailor a cycle to training, or vice versa. Assuming that time constraints are not an issue, I recommend tailoring the diet cycle to your training when you are bulking, and your training to your diet when cutting. Why? Which takes precedent should vary depending on your (current) goal. When additional muscle is the driving force, training is of paramount importance. But when fat loss is the primary goal, diet drives the cart.

Because of the numerous factors that must be considered when optimizing the two and the innumerable permutations that could result, I am not going to give specific programs. Instead, I will give general guidelines, and offer a single example, based on the standard three-day cutting cycle.

When setting up your total program, use the following guideposts:


Put your heaviest, hardest, and highest volume workouts on your high carb days.
Where possible, put your heaviest, hardest, and highest volume workouts after a low carb day. This works well on a maintenance or bulk program, but not so much on a cut (where high carb days generally follow no carb days)
Put your off days on your no carb days. Or, use these days for cardio work (if you insist on cardio) or you lightest low volume days. For example, active recovery workouts would be ideal here
When cutting, keep the frequency of workouts, and/or the total volume lower than - you would when bulking
Now, let's put this to practice. Assume one is cutting, and using the standard three-day cycle: no carb, high carb, low carb, repeat.
I would recommend setting up a four-day or six-day split that is spread out over six days. So, for example, you could do the following:


A: Chest and Triceps
B: Back and Biceps
C: Quads, Hams, and Calves
D: Shoulders, Traps, and Forearms
Learn all your proper exercise form, here.

You'd then play this routine as follows:


No: Off
High: A
Low: B
No: Off
High: C
Low: D
Good luck, and have fun. And remember, variation and experimentation are the keys to winning the long-term battle of health and self-improvement.


Supplementation


Yes ladies and gentlemen, this is the point where I pimp some products. However, it is not pimping for the sake of pimping, but rather a discussion on products that can help optimize one variation of this diet or another. So, I will not outline the virtues of Avant products generally, or even discuss, for example, Lipoderm-Y or Ab-Solved (despite the fact that they can be used with this diet effectively). Rather, I will mention but very few products:

LeptiGen - I am sure all the readers of this article are quite familiar with LeptiGen-its benefits use. Carb cycling will generally allow you to maintain a more aggressive cycle without killing your leptin levels as a Ketogenic diet might, for instance. So, even with moderate LeptiGen dosing one could increase the speed of fat-loss by doing a four day cycle such as: high carb, no carb, low carb, no carb. A higher dose would be necessary to offset anything more extreme. I would not even recommend a cycle akin to the one previously listed unless you are consuming at least two servings of LeptiGen per day.

LeptiGen Mass - This will be hitting the market in the next few months, and will be beneficial to the bulker. You will be able to alter your cycle by performing less high carb days while still remaining as (or more) anabolic as you would had you kept them in your schedule. LeptiGen Mass will be particularly excellent for the endomorph on no carb days, and for all users on the low carb days.


ICE - This premier BCAA formula by Xtreme Formulations gets top reviews and is an excellent addition to any carb cycle. I would highly recommend its use before or during training on no carb and low carb days.

Now Foods Super EPA - This is a terrific product that allows a lower dosing of fish oil given its high EPA/DHA content.
Again, many products can work nicely with this program, but it is beyond the scope of this article to address each and every one of them.

Conclusion


What is the point of all of this? Basically, it is what I initially stated in my first installment. This is a malleable diet than can be tailored to meet specific goals and specific body types. Do I know exactly how you the reader can optimize a cycle? No. But hopefully the above guidelines have empowered you to experiment based on past diet experience. I hope that this has empowered you to explore and understand what is working for you, and what is not, and how to adapt and optimize along the way.

And as a bonus for reading this article, I am offering not one but two orange-juice juicers, as well as a handy-dandy convenient list of fibrous Veggies for your consumption. Corny pun intended.

Fibrous Vegetables


Alfalfa Sprouts
Artichoke Hearts
Arugula
Asparagus
Avocado
Bamboo Shoots
Bean Sprouts
Beet Greens
Bock Choy
Broccoli
Brussels Sprouts
Cabbage
Cauliflower
Celery
Celery Root
Chard
Chicory
Chives
Collard Greens
Cucumber
Dandelion Greens
Eggplant
Endive
Escarole
Fennel
Hearts of Palm
Jicama
Kale
Kohlrabi
Leeks
Lettuce
Mache
Millie lettuce
Mushrooms
Okra
Olives
Onion
Parsley
Peppers
Pumpkin
Radicchio
Radishes
Rhubarb
Sauerkraut
Scallions
Snow Pea Pods
Sorrel
Spaghetti Squash
Spinach
String beans
Summer Squash
Tomato
Turnips
Water Chestnuts
Wax beans
Zucchini

[marcus300]

My that was some read Pinn nice find, there are many ways to carb cycling/ priming and knowing how your body responds in a dieted state will help you in find the right approach for you. Some nice sections in the above read thanks Pinn.

[marcus300]

Bumping this for all the PM's i am getting.........

The dosages are worked of the person's cycle history, what i may use would be different than what you would use.

You also don't need alot of different compounds, unless your history screams at you to do so, its the prime coupled with a high burst cycle/intense training program what will give you huge results, its not just the cycle its everything put in place what makes this a good way of cycling.

Dosages don't have to be high, short cycling can be implemented at any stage, when we talk about burst cycling the dose is ran alot higher than you would normally use, but this need only to be considered if you at a sticking point and growth as stopped or is very slow.

[xXDevilDogXx]

Excellent thread and great read!!!!


I actually used twin peaks carb cycling ideas to cut before this round. It works.


I'm interested in knowing how many of these cycles could be run in say, a year's time?

[marcus300]

Excellent thread and great read!!!!


I actually used twin peaks carb cycling ideas to cut before this round. It works.


I'm interested in knowing how many of these cycles could be run in say, a year's time?

Depends on what your trying to achieve, a competing BB would run these type of cycles different to many of guys on here. BW would also help to find out if full recovery as taken place, cycling as healthy as possible is always something i would recommend unless your trying to attack things at a higher level.

[legobricks]

^^^ttt^^^

[Pinnacle]

Depends on what your trying to achieve, a competing BB would run these type of cycles different to many of guys on here. .

Very true. I ran 6 week prop/suspension cycles for over 2 years straight. Let me clarify. They weren't uber high dose cycles like that suggested in this thread, just moderate(for me) doses. My idea was to recover quickly and get right back on. I averaged around 6 of these cycles yearly. During this time(2 yrs) I also tightened/tweaked my diet and made fantstic gains.

Pinnacle

[marcus300]

Very true. I ran 6 week prop/suspension cycles for over 2 years straight. Let me clarify. They weren't uber high dose cycles like that suggested in this thread, just moderate(for me) doses. My idea was to recover quickly and get right back on. I averaged around 6 of these cycles yearly. During this time(2 yrs) I also tightened/tweaked my diet and made fantstic gains.

Pinnacle

Was the 6 wk cycles ran with a hrt dose between them or was full recovery implemented?

[largerthannormal]

i think im gonna have to try this...great post marcus

[marcus300]

Bumping form all the PM's ive had-

[naturalsux]

Was the 6 wk cycles ran with a hrt dose between them or was full recovery implemented?

i d like to know the answer to this.

thanks.

[one8nine]

bump

[dece870717]

How are the PCT's on these type of cycles done? Since you are shut down for such a short period of time do you really need much of a PCT? Of course Nolva, maybe clomid?, but really what else would you use and how long would the PCT be for these?

[one8nine]

How are the PCT's on these type of cycles done? Since you are shut down for such a short period of time do you really need much of a PCT? Of course Nolva, maybe clomid?, but really what else would you use and how long would the PCT be for these?

imo the same compounds and dosages but less time

[dece870717]

imo the same compounds and dosages but less time

So like 2-3 weeks instead of 4-6?

[Epic1]

Good post to bring back up. Thanks !

[one8nine]

So like 2-3 weeks instead of 4-6?

really you shouldnt limit yourself.
stop pct when you feel ready is the bottom line.
but it should be easier on short cycles.

[mkrulic]

bump

[marcus300]

How are the PCT's on these type of cycles done? Since you are shut down for such a short period of time do you really need much of a PCT? Of course Nolva, maybe clomid?, but really what else would you use and how long would the PCT be for these?

Knowing your own body from previous cycles will help to decide which PCT is required to recover. yes, recovery is quicker and easier depends on compounds used for the short cycle but just do what you have done in previous cycle were recovery was good and get BW done..

[marcus300]

Bump for all the PM's i am getting, here is alot of the information required.....

[glover]

Excellent post. What would burst cyclying dose be for say someone who normally runs 1000 mgs per week?

[marcus300]

Excellent post. What would burst cyclying dose be for say someone who normally runs 1000 mgs per week?

Due to the high amount of newbies I wont discuss dosages on the open board, i stated this in the start of the thread, dosages and compounds are designed off a person cycle history and there is no set rule, everyone is different, what may be a burst dose to me may well be completely different to someone else's. Dont want new guys thinking this is the answer because its not, its to get over a sticking point for the advanced bodybuilder and to create new growth.

Also this whole process can be designed to any level, not only just for the advanced bodybuilder.

[Phate]

Marcus- do you mind if i include this thread in my link database(of course i'll cite you)

[marcus300]

Marcus- do you mind if i include this thread in my link database(of course i'll cite you)

Of course you can..

[Doub1e_J]

I am a cycle newb having only done 1 cycle of cyp for 10 weeks. At what point do you think you have enough longer cycles under your belt before trying a short burst?

The reason I ask is because I am planning out a 15 wk cycle now ( I have posted it ), in hopes of gaining more. I like the ideas you have mentioned here and they seem to be sensible. What would you recommend for a newbie like me who wants to try short bursts. How many years or cycles do I need to complete before I can move on to these shorter intense cycles?

[hankdiesel]

I am a cycle newb having only done 1 cycle of cyp for 10 weeks. At what point do you think you have enough longer cycles under your belt before trying a short burst?

The reason I ask is because I am planning out a 15 wk cycle now ( I have posted it ), in hopes of gaining more. I like the ideas you have mentioned here and they seem to be sensible. What would you recommend for a newbie like me who wants to try short bursts. How many years or cycles do I need to complete before I can move on to these shorter intense cycles?

Start your own thread for this.

[marcus300]

I am a cycle newb having only done 1 cycle of cyp for 10 weeks. At what point do you think you have enough longer cycles under your belt before trying a short burst?

The reason I ask is because I am planning out a 15 wk cycle now ( I have posted it ), in hopes of gaining more. I like the ideas you have mentioned here and they seem to be sensible. What would you recommend for a newbie like me who wants to try short bursts. How many years or cycles do I need to complete before I can move on to these shorter intense cycles?

I wouldn't recommend any type of burst cycling until you have come to a hault in your growth and you need some kind of kickstart past a sticking point into some serious growth, this will take years and you have a long way to go before even going down this route.

You can do a short cycle when ever you feel fit, just use the correct compounds and amount suited to your history and stage.

[Doub1e_J]

I wouldn't recommend any type of burst cycling until you have come to a hault in your growth and you need some kind of kickstart past a sticking point into some serious growth, this will take years and you have a long way to go before even going down this route.

You can do a short cycle when ever you feel fit, just use the correct compounds and amount suited to your history and stage.

Thanks for the reply.

This is an excellent post. I will be trying to incorporate your ideas around the priming too. I hope to achieve some good results as you have.

[Focusmen]

bumping this cause is such a good read. marcus= tha man

enjoy