What anti-progesteronic drug should I take when using deca?

[gwig]

What works the best to battle progesterone when using deca ? I've heard there are supplements you can buy in stores, but I don't know what they would be called.

[guest589745]

arimidex , a small amount of b6 and cabergoline if you want.

Letro would be an otion instead of arimidex but is more stronger which may not be needed.

[mickdiesel]

skull, how does it help the progesterone problem? like what is its actual effect and how does it do it

[Getbig06]

What works the best to battle progesterone when using deca? I've heard there are supplements you can buy in stores, but I don't know what they would be called.

I would run an AI if you are worried.

[ghoul000]

An AI is not what your looking for. Take 600mg of B-6 a day, max 200 at a time. That will keep it suppressed. If your really worried you can take Vitex at 2g a day. Can get that at a local health food store real cheap.

[chest6]

600mg of B6?

You know you can take too much right?

[guest589745]

too much b6 is a bad thing. no mroe than 75-100mg if even taken at all.

[ghoul000]

600 is fine. Some people say 900 but thats kinda high. 600mg of b-6 also will clear up acne from a cycle Youll know you are taking too much b-6 if your fingers get tingly. I have taken 600 for periods of time and was fine. Like I said no more then 200mg at a time..BTW the B-6 pills come in 100 or 200mg.

[chest6]

too much b6 is a bad thing. no mroe than 75-100mg if even taken at all.

Yep.

600mg Im sure that would be pretty harmful. Even the often see recommended dosage at 200mg is a bit high. Too much can result in nerve damage

[guest589745]

It halts androgen receptor gene transcription activity at higher doses.

[fLgAtOr]

What works the best to battle progesterone when using deca? I've heard there are supplements you can buy in stores, but I don't know what they would be called.

I know you asked about progesterone, but there are really two issues here.

Remember that progesterone amplifies the effects of estrogen. So, your first priority is to control your estro levels. And this is best done with Arimidex or Letro as Skull said.

Then there is the progesterone problem (which technically wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't any estro, buuut). B6, Vitex, and finally caber are the three that come to mind (again, as skull already mentioned).

Persoanally I think B6 and vitex are total crap...However, there are others that have used them with success. Take this as you will. The most effective thing would be cabergoline, but it is not OTC and comes with its own side effects. And for that, my young grasshopper, you will have to do your own research.

[Coop77]

arimidex , a small amount of b6 and cabergoline if you want.

Letro would be an otion instead of arimidex but is more stronger which may not be needed.

Are arimidex and letro effective with deca ? I thought those only worked with testosterone -based drugs.
Side effects like gyno are rare with deca but can definitely be avoided with an anti-progesteronic drugs like Cabergoline and Bromocriptine.

[ghoul000]

Toxicity

Because adverse effects have only been documented from vitamin B6 supplements and never from food sources, only the supplemental form of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) is discussed with respect to safety. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin and is excreted in the urine, very high doses of pyridoxine over long periods of time may result in painful neurological symptoms known as sensory neuropathy. Symptoms include pain and numbness of the extremities, and in severe cases difficulty walking. Sensory neuropathy typically develops at doses of pyridoxine in excess of 1,000 mg per day. However, there have been a few case reports of individuals who developed sensory neuropathies at doses of less than 500 mg daily over a period of months. None of the studies, in which an objective neurological examination was performed, found evidence of sensory nerve damage at intakes of pyridoxine below 200 mg/day (15). In order to prevent sensory neuropathy in virtually all individuals, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine set the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for pyridoxine at 100 mg/day for adults (see table below) (4). Because placebo-controlled studies have generally failed to show therapeutic benefits of high doses of pyridoxine, there is little reason to exceed the UL of 100 mg/day.

[ghoul000]

Its from a mecial institution...according to this 600mg for a short period of time is fine. Your not takeing it for a prolonged period of time. They also use doesages up to 200 to cure/help with medical problems.

[guest589745]

Are arimidex and letro effective with deca? I thought those only worked with testosterone-based drugs.
Side effects like gyno are rare with deca but can definitely be avoided with an anti-progesteronic drugs like Cabergoline and Bromocriptine.

Arimidex and letro are AIs that are effective with any steroid . 19nors like nandrolone and trenbolone can cause problems when prolactin production is increased in the presence of estrogen hence, the use of an AI. Nolvadex should be somewhat avoided when using 19nors.

[ghoul000]

Well considering you never clear your body of all estrogen which is a bad thing...Arimdex and letro, or nolva are not used to supress prolactin from deca or tren . BTW you can get a blood test to test for prolactin levels if you think your off.

[guest589745]

Well considering you never clear your body of all estrogen which is a bad thing...Arimdex and letro, or nolva are not used to supress prolactin from deca or tren. BTW you can get a blood test to test for prolactin levels if you think your off.

Whats yer point? Yea cabergoline or bromo will suppress prolactin production.

[guest589745]

Damnit, wheres that b6 thread.......

[fLgAtOr]

Well considering you never clear your body of all estrogen which is a bad thing...Arimdex and letro, or nolva are not used to supress prolactin from deca or tren. BTW you can get a blood test to test for prolactin levels if you think your off.

Reread my post sir.

Like peas and carrots....Gotta treat both. And I for one, would rather not use caber if i didn't have to.

[guest589745]

Reread my post sir.

Like peas and carrots....Gotta treat both. And I for one, would rather not use caber if i didn't have to.

Did you let swiftos post scaer you?

I think it was blown out of proportion really but props to swifto for doing research, which is rarely done.

[fLgAtOr]

Did you let swiftos post scaer you?

I think it was blown out of proportion really but props to swifto for doing research, which is rarely done.

No! Is it on caber? I search aroudn for it...

[std4]

Arimidex and letro are AIs that are effective with any steroid . 19nors like nandrolone and trenbolone can cause problems when prolactin production is increased in the presence of estrogen hence, the use of an AI. Nolvadex should be somewhat avoided when using 19nors.

why should nolva be avoided when using 19nors? is this valid for all serms or just for nolva?

[ziinus]

Because nolva is an derivated oestrogen

[Hephens]

if you already have gyno, can you attract progesterone gyno? Is gyno and progesterone gyno both the same?

[mickdiesel]

can we elaborate more on y not to use nolva with 19nors? I'm about to start npp in my last 6 weeks of a 16 weeker. I've been using nolva throughout. y should I not use it now? I can remember reading this before but I couldn't find it to read it again

[mickdiesel]

I'm actually hijacking, ill just start a new thread

[Swifto]

No! Is it on caber? I search aroudn for it...

*Drum Roll*

Ahem...

Cabergoline - Beware!

can we elaborate more on y not to use nolva with 19nors? I'm about to start npp in my last 6 weeks of a 16 weeker. I've been using nolva throughout. y should I not use it now? I can remember reading this before but I couldn't find it to read it again

Tamoxifen and 19-Nors sholdnt be combined. Tamoxifen (Nolvadex ) will accelerate PgR expression.

[Swifto]

Ahem...

Sorry....I have somehting stuck in my throat.







J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.

Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.

Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.

Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. [email protected]

Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to su**ivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resista

[guest589745]

Ahem...

Sorry....I have somehting stuck in my throat.







J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.

Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.

Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.

Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. [email protected]

Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to su**ivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resista

Good post.

[fLgAtOr]

*Drum Roll*

Ahem...

Cabergoline - Beware!

I found it last night...Thanks though sweetie.

Very interesting though. I have been able to get away with just letro so far.

[durant08]

Very interesting information, thx for helping us to better understand this stuff. It is appreciated and noobies are reading!!