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  1. #1
    enigma10's Avatar
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    Pills or Injections..?

    hey everyone, i want to say thanks to who ever reads this.

    I'm new but I'm ready, diet is good lost allot of weight from Atkins ( been on it for 4 years ) and just started to add carbs to my daily diet.

    my goal is Definition, Strength, and a flat but toned stomach, i don't want to get REAL big, i would like to look like this:

    http://www.best-stuff.evonet.ro/out.php/i561_101.PNG

    but there so much out there that i don't know where to start, I've read the forms did some search but i would like some feedback from people on here, i would like to try pills preferably.

    any help would be great !! Thanks

  2. #2
    bodybuilder1107's Avatar
    bodybuilder1107 is offline Senior Member
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    most wont recommend a oral only cycle due to liver damage but there are some good stacks for cutting did you hit the newbie starter pack section?

  3. #3
    G4R
    G4R is offline Anabolic Voice of Reason
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    Stats?
    Height?
    Weight?
    BF%
    Age?

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    enigma10's Avatar
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    LOL my bad SPYWIZARD i know it can get tidious to answer the same questions over and over but any help would be cool.

  6. #6
    enigma10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by going4ripped View Post
    Stats?
    Height?
    Weight?
    BF%
    Age?
    Height is----6'4"

    Weight----235 Pounds

    BF%-----22

    Age----26

  7. #7
    bodybuilder1107's Avatar
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    you will probably get hit with a tren or winny or eq cycle they are usually the favorites but not a oral only cycle, bad news bro

  8. #8
    SoCoSpartan is offline Junior Member
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    Don't do a oral only cycle bro. Most your gains will be lost and it will tax your body come time PCT.

  9. #9
    Big's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuilder1107 View Post
    you will probably get hit with a tren or winny or eq cycle they are usually the favorites but not a oral only cycle, bad news bro
    I couldn't imagine anyone who knows what they are doing recommending any of those for a first cycle.

  10. #10
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    Personaly i'd stick with something simple Test e, test cyp, oral only cycles are a definate no no imo. Enigma also following a very strict diet will help keep you lean, bu i'd suggest you want to pack on some size first then shred.

    Good luck what ever path you choose and i hope you hit your goals.
    Last edited by Blackster1975; 06-20-2008 at 07:20 AM.

  11. #11
    TJM7275 is offline Banned
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    Dam BodyBuilder1107... Big is right. Not an impressive post dude. A first cycle should be Test only. Enigma.... READ brother.. You are not ready for gear. You run Test to see how your body reacts to the foreign substance in your body.

  12. #12
    bodybuilder1107's Avatar
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    yeah but the wants to lean out and cut test would me a mass cycle unless i understood him wrong i thought he was looking for a cutting cycle obviously with test as a base

  13. #13
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    i see, ok so what s being recomended Test or whinny or other, and please keep in mind not trying to get REALLY BIG just slighty big and cut !

    i can understand that injection is the best way and my body needs time to procces the new drug, i would really like to take oral pills but if you guys say injection ten injection it is.

  14. #14
    Nicotine's Avatar
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    injection all the way.

    it's a bit nervy the first time. after that, i looked forward to it personally

    do a test only cycle first. 10 weeks. see how your body deals with it. only thing is, i'd make sure your diet is in check, and get your BF% down before cycle a bit (up that cardio!)

    best of luck!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicotine View Post
    injection all the way.

    it's a bit nervy the first time. after that, i looked forward to it personally

    do a test only cycle first. 10 weeks. see how your body deals with it. only thing is, i'd make sure your diet is in check, and get your BF% down before cycle a bit (up that cardio!)

    best of luck!
    I agree! do more research bro. Hows your training experience? How long you been lifting? seems BF high

  16. #16
    Mbuffguy is offline Banned
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    need to lower BF first and atkins is a terrible diet too.stick with the lifestyle for a bit (eating,training,sleeping enought) then try AAs

  17. #17
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    work out 5 times a week, 20 mins cardio and the rest differnt lifts, what are you guys thinking for my BF ?

    ive been doing all of search and it seems that its high.

  18. #18
    Mbuffguy is offline Banned
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    yes it is lose weight before u juice

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    I couldn't imagine anyone who knows what they are doing recommending any of those for a first cycle.
    Thinking the same thing.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mbuffguy View Post
    yes it is lose weight before u juice
    I was waiting for someone to say it.


    at 22% BF i think you should more be focused on your diet than anything. Atkins......ok really what are you eating. You say no carbs but what type of foods? processed, fats, etc... frozen foods, pre-packed foods? What you eat can make a HUGE difference. I started about a month back of eating strictly clean foods, chicken breast, tuna, potatoes, yams, rolled oats, lean lean beef, fish, etc...

    And i will tell you right now, it is all the difference in the world in terms of gaining muscle and shedding fat. Get your diet right first.

  21. #21
    Phate's Avatar
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    hope this helps


    CARDIO

    cardio is, but the type of cardio is what he's talking about, running is not the best for fat burning

    for low intensity long duration cardio i would use a stationary bike or walk at 3.0-4.0mph on a high incline for 30-50minutes

    for HIIT training i would use a stairstepper, elliptical or stationary bike and do this
    5minutes warm up
    1min at 40-50% of max effort
    30sec at 85-90% max effort
    1min at 40-50% of max effort
    30sec at 85-90% max effort
    continue that for 15-20 minutes or until you can't go any more
    then cool down for 5 minutes

    low intensity will burn more calories from fat but will also burn less total calories as the intensity isn't as high as HIIT

    HIIT training will burn a lower percentage of calories from fat, though not by much, i think the study i read said 10-12% max, but will burn many more calories total and will increase metabolism for up to 24 hours after cardio, this is called the afterburn effect, where you burn extra calories because of an increase in metabolic output

    to give you an estimate i wlll outline one of my cardio routines

    low intensity
    3.2-3.5mph 8%incline on treadmill for 30minutes burns 350cal

    HIIT
    using what i outlined above i burn close to 500cal in 20-25minutes plus the extra that i get afterwards



    DIET HELP

    here is the diet that i'm on right now, it's a good base to go off of, listed below are things to help you create your own diet off it

    1) One thing that will help you drastically is called carb tapering, if you notice the bulk of my carbs are in the morning and after my workout, i don't eat hardly any close to when i go to sleep

    2) Another thing is that eat meal is either protein/carb or protein/fat and the fats are good fats(EFA=Essential fatty acids) from flax oil or fish oil. Try not to eat fat with carbs as the fat will become, well, fat since your body is made to be energy efficient, by putting carbs, which are easier to break down for energy, in the same meal as fats your body stores the fat for later and uses the carbs for energy, not what you want.

    3) try to eat every 2-3 hours, this is the amount of time it takes for your body to digest a meal and by giving it a constant stream of food you will ensure that your metabolism is kept high, also, calories are not the same, protein has the highest thermodynamic effect, which means that it takes more calories to digest protein than carbs or fat, this also increases your metabolism

    4) You should try to get at least 50-60g of protein in every meal, this is about the max your body can take at one time

    5) here are some tricks for making eating so often easier, i know it's hard, i go to school 8 hours a day and i'm not allowed to bring food into class so i have to work around that
    a) Make a weeks worth of food on your day off, go buy a ton of chicken, lean turkey and very lean beef and grill it, then put it in ziplock bags and label with the amount of calories and protein per bag, YOU WILL NEED TO BUY A CHEAP SCALE FOR THIS, YOU CAN GET THEM AT GNC, MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE THAT WEIGHS IN GRAMS.
    b) save grocery sacks or get a lunch box and put a full three meals or so in there, lots of chicken, jerky, tuna, those are gonna be the staples of your diet

    6) Don't drink more than two protein shakes a day, there are liquid and don't have the thermic effect normal food does, normal food should make up 95% of your diet, though a shake after workout or in a pinch is perfectly fine

    that should get you started, i'm sure you'll still have questions so just keep posting and i'll help you however i can, i'll be in austin though for the next couple days for a state competition, though i'll try to get on at the hotel if you post and answer when i can, here's the diet i'm on to model after

    Meal 1 - 5 egg whites (cal 80, pro18), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat5), 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5). sprinkle cinnamon. TOTALS - Cal 485, carbs 53 pro 50, Fat 6.5

    WORKOUT

    PWO - 2 scoop whey (cal224, carb5, pro46, fat3), WMS 80g (cal280 carb68) TOTALS Cal519, carbs73, pro58 fat 3

    PPWO - Tuna 1/2 tin (cal 72,carb0 pro15 ), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat4) 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5) TOTALS cal480 carbs53 pro50 fat5.5

    meal 4 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Coconut Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS cal372, pro54, fat14

    Meal 5 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Flax Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS cal372, pro54, fat14

    Meal 6 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) hemp Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS cal372, pro54, fat14

    Before Bed Lean Mince200g (cal328 pro51 fat12) TOTALS cal328 pro51 fat12

    DAILY TOTAL Cal 2928Carbs 179 Protein 360 fat 68.5

    Each chicken meal served with a handful of fibrous green veg bringing carbs to approx 200g per day in total.

    DIET 2

    Macros: Food/Calories/Protein-Carbs-Fat

    Meal 1: 60g Oatmeal/225cal/8gP-41gC-2gF
    turkey (99/1)/260/54gP-0gC-3gF
    2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

    Meal 2: 40g Oatmeal/150cal/5gP-27gC-1.5gF
    turkey (99/1)/260/54gP-0gC-3gF
    2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

    Meal 3: 40g Oatmeal/150cal/5gP-27gC-1.5gF
    beef (96/4)/300/50gP-0gC-8gF
    2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

    Meal 4: 10mL flax oil 90cal/0gP-0gC-10gF
    beef (96/4)/300/50gP-0gC-8gF
    2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

    Meal 5: 10mL fish oil 90cal/0gP-0gC-10gF
    Tuna 170cal/42gP-0gC-0gF
    3.5 Tbsp Mayo light 70/0gP-4gC-5gF

    Meal 6: Tuna 170cal/42gP-0gC-0gF
    3.5 Tbsp Mayo light 70/0gP-4gC-5gF
    beef or turkey 150cal/25gP-0gC-4gF

    macros:Calories: 2615
    Protein: 335
    Carbs: 111
    Fats: 74

  22. #22
    enigma10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legobricks View Post
    I was waiting for someone to say it.


    at 22% BF i think you should more be focused on your diet than anything. Atkins......ok really what are you eating. You say no carbs but what type of foods? processed, fats, etc... frozen foods, pre-packed foods? What you eat can make a HUGE difference. I started about a month back of eating strictly clean foods, chicken breast, tuna, potatoes, yams, rolled oats, lean lean beef, fish, etc...

    And i will tell you right now, it is all the difference in the world in terms of gaining muscle and shedding fat. Get your diet right first.

    eatting, Steak, Chiken, veggies all day everyday and working out normally, at times i go to J-box and order meat with cheese...maybee this is the killer ? never thought it hurt becuse of the weight loss. but if everyone is saying BF is to high then i know were to start.

    what do you guys think i should be at ?

  23. #23
    gixxerboy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma10 View Post
    hey everyone, i want to say thanks to who ever reads this.

    I'm new but I'm ready, diet is good lost allot of weight from Atkins ( been on it for 4 years ) and just started to add carbs to my daily diet.

    my goal is Definition, Strength, and a flat but toned stomach, i don't want to get REAL big, i would like to look like this:

    http://www.best-stuff.evonet.ro/out.php/i561_101.PNG

    but there so much out there that i don't know where to start, I've read the forms did some search but i would like some feedback from people on here, i would like to try pills preferably.

    any help would be great !! Thanks
    That pic is was my friend. It takes a lot to look like that

  24. #24
    Mbuffguy is offline Banned
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    atkins diet is bad stop it trust me and no cheese or steak if your cutting

  25. #25
    enigma10's Avatar
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    found this when i did a google search: this answers allot !!!

    Winstrol - The pros and cons of oral and injectable!!!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    First of all let me say that oral steroids are normally far more toxic than injectable because orals go through a two-pass metabolism process. Injectable substances completely cirvent the first-pass metabolism therefore they are less toxic. First-pass metabolism is the much more rigid of the two passes because the drug must travel through both the gut and liver (more on this later).

    The 17 alpha-alkylated was added to Winstrol (and other orals) so more of the drug could survive the first-pass thus allowing a larger portion of the drug to reach the bloodstream. At this time the drug circulates in the bloodstream until it is absorbed by another tissue, preferably muscle, and it makes its way back to the liver for the second-pass metabolism (the second-pass metabolism takes place in the liver only).

    The injectable goes directly into the bloodstream and skips first-pass metabolism. Therefore more of the drug is available for other tissues to absorb (i.e. preferably muscle). What does not get absorbed makes its way to the liver for what is called second-pass metabolism.

    Hepatoxicity

    1. Oral - the drug in its full capacity must undergo first-pass metabolism and the portion that is left once it travels through the bloodstream will undergo second-pass metabolism.

    2. Injectable - the drug goes directly into the blood stream and is more readily available for muscle absorption, the portion not absorbed goes through a much less rigid second-pass metabolism.

    Obviously it is far less toxic to inject winstrol rather than ingest it. Also injecting allows more of the drug to be available for muscle absorption and in turn has the advantage assisting in building more new lean muscle mass than the oral version due to better nitrogen retention. That being said there are advantages to taking winstrol orally. Most importantly it lowers sex hormone binding globulin significantly. Most say you can experience around a 50% decrease in sex hormone binding globulin by taking about 25mg/day of Winstrol orally. This drastic reduction only occurs by taking it orally because sex hormone binding globulin is produced in the liver therefore the first-pass allows the winstrol to reduce the SHBG on site - as already mentioned much more of the drug passes through the liver when taken orally. As most of you know SHBG binds to testosterone and won't allow it to be used to build muscle. Obviously if we can reduce the amount of SHBG by half that allows the testosterone that was bound by the SHBG to now be used for building muscle.

    In short taking Winstrol - stanozolol orally will make all of the other compounds in your cycle much more effective but it is harsher on the liver. Injecting Winstrol - stanozolol is better for building muscle (considering only the Winstrol - stanozolol) and is less harsh on the liver but does not offer the synergy with your other cycle compounds.

    ill give credit to fourm member from another site that posted this !! but found it via google

  26. #26
    PingPang's Avatar
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    As most people said previously. I recommend lose weight at least down to 14% body fat before cycle

    I might recommend Clen to aid in your weight loss.

    But most important. DIET AND CARDIO!

  27. #27
    enigma10's Avatar
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    14% sounds like what ive been hearing.

    ive posted some pictures of me can anyone guess my BF ?

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=349530
    Last edited by enigma10; 06-21-2008 at 02:42 AM.

  28. #28
    gixxerboy1's Avatar
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    def higher then 14%. Your def not ready for steriods . I would guess closer to 20% bf

  29. #29
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    yeah gotta hit 14 or better its worth waiting because 20 pounds of muscle will look much more impressive on you at 10 percent body fat than it will at 20 percent you see? its a hard road it took me 5 months to cut and get ready and i still have one more month but it will be worth it next beach season

  30. #30
    enigma10's Avatar
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    ok so its looking like my BF is to high , ill start working on that and get it down to 14% sweeeet Thanks Guys !

    im on this site reading and reading so hopefully soon ill post some lower BF stats !!!

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