20 Y/O looking for some info.

[Sashka88]

Hey guys, Iam 20 years old and wanted to take AS for 2 years now.I been lifting a lot before not so much now. Iam 5.11 165 pretty cut , got some mass. A lot of my buddys did AS, but they were 21-24. I was thinking of doing a 8 week Test/Deca or d-bol cycle. Tell me what you guys think. I Know most will say diet and work out naturally for now, but iam not looking for that answer, i have read about the effects and everything, i just want to know for my height and weight what cycle would be nice to gain MASS. Thanks in advance.

[XD40]

Bro your test levels are so high rite now if you stuck to a strick high protein diet you could put on the mass your looking for and save the $$$...I know you dont want to hear that answer but its my 2cents...As for a cycle you need to do some research and come to us with a plan and we will critique it and help you. YOU must do the leg work...However if you are hellbent on AS then i would say research Test CYP or Test E only cycles.....

[Sashka88]

Bro your test levels are so high rite now if you stuck to a strick high protein diet you could put on the mass your looking for and save the $$$...I know you dont want to hear that answer but its my 2cents...As for a cycle you need to do some research and come to us with a plan and we will critique it and help you. YOU must do the leg work...However if you are hellbent on AS then i would say research Test CYP or Test E only cycles.....

Why should i get rid of deca or dbol from it?

[redz]

AAS is nto magic, at 5'11 165 you obviously need to work on your diet and reach your natural potential. Steroids wont instantly make you big without the right diet,supplements and work out routine. 20 is still a bit young imo, learn about diet gain 20lbs then once your at a plateau you can look at AAS but trust me at 165lbs you are no where near done growing naturally.

[AnimalGear]

Hey guys, Iam 20 years old and wanted to take AS for 2 years now.I been lifting a lot before not so much now. Iam 5.11 165 pretty cut , got some mass. A lot of my buddys did AS, but they were 21-24. I was thinking of doing a 8 week Test/Deca or d-bol cycle. Tell me what you guys think. I Know most will say diet and work out naturally for now, but iam not looking for that answer, i have read about the effects and everything, i just want to know for my height and weight what cycle would be nice to gain MASS. Thanks in advance.

Well if thats the case then I'd do test e 500mg/wk for 10 weeks with a good PCT


Post your exact diet and workout routine. You say you're not lifting much lately. AAS=not a substitute for hard work and discipline.

If you can't follow a diet like this one then you're not ready for AAS. Here's mine from Perfectbeast....ask him to make one for you he's cool:

Meal 1 - 5 egg whites (cal 80, pro18), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat5), 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5). sprinkle cinnamon. TOTALS - Cal 485, carbs 53 pro 50, Fat 6.5

WORKOUT

PWO - 2 scoop whey (cal224, carb5, pro46, fat3), WMS 80g (cal280 carb68) TOTALS – Cal519, carbs73, pro58 fat 3

PPWO - Tuna 1/2 tin (cal 72,carb0 pro15 ), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat4) 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5) TOTALS – cal480 carbs53 pro50 fat5.5

meal 4 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Coconut Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Meal 5 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Flax Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Meal 6 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) hemp Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Before Bed – Lean Mince 200g (cal328 pro51 fat12) TOTALS cal328 pro51 fat12

DAILY TOTAL Cal 2928Carbs 179 Protein 360 fat 68.5

Each chicken meal served with a handful of fibrous green veg bringing carbs to approx 200g per day in total.

if you still struggle to gain then add half cup of brown rice to meal 4.







ALSO go to the workout forum and click on the sticky 'various training techniques' and begin a plan for the EDT program. Do this naturally for a good while then try AAS

If you diet right for a while you will seriously impress yourself...don't underestimate the anabolic power of food. One bit.

[Sashka88]

[QUOTE=AnimalGear;4084636]Well if thats the case then I'd do test e 500mg/wk for 10 weeks with a good PCT



If followed a good diet and hard training at this time if i take Test E 500mg/wk for 10 weeks what kind of results do you think i will achieve? will it hit 185-190?

[WARMachine]

Since work harder and diet your ass off are not the answers your looking for, go with Test E for 10 weeks... look that up, its your first cycle, and there is no point in pumping yourself full of AAS especially at your age bro...

[JiGGaMaN]

Bro your test levels are so high rite now if you stuck to a strick high protein diet you could put on the mass your looking for and save the $$$...I know you dont want to hear that answer but its my 2cents...As for a cycle you need to do some research and come to us with a plan and we will critique it and help you. YOU must do the leg work...However if you are hellbent on AS then i would say research Test CYP or Test E only cycles.....

I cant stress this enough:

YOU CANNOT DETERMINE SOMEONES TESTOSTERONE LEVELS BY THEIR AGE.

For the love of god...

[redz]

If followed a good diet and hard training at this time if i take Test E 500mg/wk for 10 weeks what kind of results do you think i will achieve? will it hit 185-190?

You will not get to a lean 190 in your first cycle if your diet is as bad as it currently is. Everyone is different some people gain 20lbs some 5lbs.

[WARMachine]

[QUOTE=Sashka88;4084644]

Well if thats the case then I'd do test e 500mg/wk for 10 weeks with a good PCT



If followed a good diet and hard training at this time if i take Test E 500mg/wk for 10 weeks what kind of results do you think i will achieve? will it hit 185-190?

you might peak at around 185... Keep in mind your not gonna stay there, more than likely youll end up with about less than 180... of course, everyone is different, and have you got a diet plan yet? it all depends on how much your willing to do! Are you ready to be comminted enough to train and eat properly? And what kinda of PCT are you looking at? (just checking to see if you did your HW)

[Sashka88]

You will not get to a lean 190 in your first cycle if your diet is as bad as it currently is. Everyone is different some people gain 20lbs some 5lbs.

my diet is not bad at all. how do you guys suppose that, Its not easy for me to gain weight.iam not skinny, i got mass.

[Sashka88]

[QUOTE=war4BTT;4084655]

you might peak at 190 sure... Keep in mind your not gonna stay at 190, more than likely youll end up with about 180 or less... of course, everyone is different, and have you got a diet plan yet? it all depends on how much your willing to do! Are you ready to be comminted enough to train and eat properly? And what kinda of PCT are you looking at? (just checking to see if you did your HW)

Yeah iam comitted to it, also planning on taking Novladex, but i was talking to my buddy's he said with just test, they think ill be fine without PCT, but i will deff have it and take it to be safe.

[AnimalGear]

Dude i can't predict your results...it depends on how aggressively try to accomplish your goal...like gaining Xlbs of weight before cycling

You have to go about it with sick aggression...it's all in how bad you want it. If we can shape up and learn how to diet strictly at our age (also 20) and also lift til we puke, then 5, or 10, or 15 yrs from now we be huge

So anyways begin a diet, and get the kinks out for a few weeks as you try to master all that food, then once you begin seeing real gains off that food for a few months, then look at AAS (and upping your diet too)

[redz]

my diet is not bad at all. how do you guys suppose that, Its not easy for me to gain weight.iam not skinny, i got mass.

5'11 and 165lbs is not mass....... you think people are attacking you but the problem is almost always diet for "hard gainers" or whatever you call yourself.

[inky-e]

If its not easy for you to gain weight, what makes you think you will with juice? You don't get big in the gym bro, you get big in the kitchen. Keep trying natty and change up your diet and workouts, Just my 2 cents.

[XD40]

I reccomend you doing away with the other compounds(decca,Dbol ) because you dont know how your body will react to AS and if you have a shitty cycle then you cannot pin point which compound didnt work for you. if you start with test only and you have good results then you know that works for you...in the second cycle add 1 more compound and see how you respond to that specific compound...Rome wasnt built in a day brotha...research research research....

[redz]

Yeah iam comitted to it, also planning on taking Novladex, but i was talking to my buddy's he said with just test, they think ill be fine without PCT, but i will deff have it and take it to be safe.

Do not take advice from people saying no pct is necessary for a test cycle, that is horrible advice.

[Sashka88]

5'11 and 165lbs is not mass....... you think people are attacking you but the problem is almost always diet for "hard gainers" or whatever you call yourself.

I agree with you guys. What should my diet look like to gain mass? THANKS ALOT GUY's FOR ALL YOU'RE INFO.

[AnimalGear]

Yeah read every single sticky on this site until mastered, then reread

[WARMachine]

Do not take advice from people saying no pct is necessary for a test cycle, that is horrible advice.

Your friend, is telling you NOT to take PCT with a Test cycle??? Assuming he did the same, how does he like being a woman now???

Ok, in all seriousness dude, start with posting your daily diet, and workout routine(without a TON of detail, just the jist of it, I.E. sets, reps per, blah blahblah)

Then well go from there

[WARMachine]

UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

read this!!! btw, you need to do your own HW from now on sonny boy j/p dude, but seriously, like ANIMAL said, read EVERYTHING and then READ IT AGAIN!!!

[one8nine]

I cant stress this enough:

YOU CANNOT DETERMINE SOMEONES TESTOSTERONE LEVELS BY THEIR AGE.

For the love of god...

you always say whats on my mind

[Sashka88]

Alright guys i did some research and i think im going to do Test -E 500/mg wk. for 8 weeks with a good PCT. I will probably consume 3500 calories a day, hoping to peak at 190. What you guys think?

[N*E*R*D]

Well if your going ahead with it, then yes 190 is very possible

[AnimalGear]

I want to see your complete diet with macros firsst

[jc95605]

I agree with you guys. What should my diet look like to gain mass? THANKS ALOT GUY's FOR ALL YOU'RE INFO.

Go to the diet section and read the sample diet on there. Pay attention to the "how to bulk diet". Do that diet while taking test e 250mgs at twice a week and you'll do fine. I agree with the other AAS isn't a mircle drug you have to eat for what you want your body to do. In your case it sounds like you wanna bulk. Read that diet and eat accordingly. If you have other questions ask us or pm me.

[jc95605]

Alright guys i did some research and i think im going to do Test -E 500/mg wk. for 8 weeks with a good PCT. I will probably consume 3500 calories a day, hoping to peak at 190. What you guys think?

I think you should have your cycle more for 10-12wks and eat 3500-4000 calories. The calorie intake will vary according to your training routine and whether or not your food intake is clean.

[TJM7275]

If your hell bent on gear at that young of an age, at least go get you blood done first and see what you test levels are sitting at. I really think you should not do it yet. I think you need to get your diet in check first brother. Diet is the key in growing muscle, not gear. Steroids are just a small equation. But like I said get your blood done.

[Sashka88]

If your hell bent on gear at that young of an age, at least go get you blood done first and see what you test levels are sitting at. I really think you should not do it yet. I think you need to get your diet in check first brother. Diet is the key in growing muscle, not gear. Steroids are just a small equation. But like I said get your blood done.

So if i go get blood tests done and it says my test levels are high. don't use gear? Im thinking Test E 500mg/wk for 8 weeks will be fine..hopefully with hard training and a good diet i can peak at 185 190...

[jc95605]

Ya it anything do that. Stay away from deca , use dbol for 4wks instead. Deca usually take a long time b4 it works, I think around 10-12wks, not to mention deca dick. Basically you don't need the deca. You'll be surprised how good test only works.

[WARMachine]

No! Not 8wks, 10 wks dude... And deca is a bad choice for cycle #1, it takes like 8wks to start, and its in your system from 12 to 18months

And list your diet with macros like ANIMAL said...

And still no PCT listing!!!

[muhammad1185]

bro start with test alone, its good for beginers, go for around 300-500 a week, id start low 300, run for ten weeks, u cud throw in d'bol t around 20-30 mgs a week for 4-5 weeks, i garentee u youll get results, just take novla and amax, and drink lots of water, take liv 52, milkthistle, vitimins, and f***ing train and eat low fat food, but alot of calerories, trust me youll be more than happy with results. this is what i think, if you read up ull find out test is ver effective and u tend to keep the gains if u use a good pct, good luk g

[muhammad1185]

mistake, sorry d-bol at 20-30 mgs a day, in split does 2 0r 3 as they have max 4 hr life,
DIET DIET DIET TRAIN, DIETS 70% OF WAT U ACHIEVE

[Sashka88]

mistake, sorry d-bol at 20-30 mgs a day, in split does 2 0r 3 as they have max 4 hr life,
DIET DIET DIET TRAIN, DIETS 70% OF WAT U ACHIEVE

In terms of diet, i cant still eat out just not junk, like eat whole wheat breads/chicken. I should stay away from like French fries right?

[jc95605]

I'd go to the diet forum they can break it down for you there. Mcdonalds fires have 30gs of fat but like 150gs of carbs so keep that in mind.

[Phate]

here is some stuff to read to get yourself ready for your cycle

BTW IF YOUR WONDERING WHY NOT TO USE DECA FOR A FIRST CYCLE HERE ARE SOME REASONS

1. Your receptors are fresh so a test first cycle will yield VERY GOOD results as long as your diet, which is the most important part of bodybuilding, and training is on point.

2. Because of gyno and estrogen related sides, deca is a bad choice for a first cycle as it is a progestrine, let me elaborate a bit on this. Testosterone gets converted to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme, but deca doesn't aromatize to estrogen at all, instead it stimulates progestrone, which can cause the same sides as estrogen, but here's the kicker
Since test stimulates sides via estrogen and deca stimulates sides via progestrone if you get sides which do you treat the gyno, acne, whatever... things like nolva actually can make sides caused by deca worse by making the progesterone receptors more sensitive

as you can see, running deca for a first cycle can be risky especially if you are afraid of gyno

3.Oh yes, there's more, deca is a 19nor and is very supressive so the pct is going to have to be more intensive and thus more expensive


CARDIO

cardio is, but the type of cardio is what he's talking about, running is not the best for fat burning

for low intensity long duration cardio i would use a stationary bike or walk at 3.0-4.0mph on a high incline for 30-50minutes

for HIIT training i would use a stairstepper, elliptical or stationary bike and do this
5minutes warm up
1min at 40-50% of max effort
30sec at 85-90% max effort
1min at 40-50% of max effort
30sec at 85-90% max effort
continue that for 15-20 minutes or until you can't go any more
then cool down for 5 minutes

low intensity will burn more calories from fat but will also burn less total calories as the intensity isn't as high as HIIT

HIIT training will burn a lower percentage of calories from fat, though not by much, i think the study i read said 10-12% max, but will burn many more calories total and will increase metabolism for up to 24 hours after cardio, this is called the afterburn effect, where you burn extra calories because of an increase in metabolic output

to give you an estimate i wlll outline one of my cardio routines

low intensity
3.2-3.5mph 8%incline on treadmill for 30minutes burns 350cal

HIIT
using what i outlined above i burn close to 500cal in 20-25minutes plus the extra that i get afterwards



DIET HELP

here is the diet that i'm on right now, it's a good base to go off of, listed below are things to help you create your own diet off it

1) One thing that will help you drastically is called carb tapering, if you notice the bulk of my carbs are in the morning and after my workout, i don't eat hardly any close to when i go to sleep

2) Another thing is that eat meal is either protein/carb or protein/fat and the fats are good fats(EFA=Essential fatty acids) from flax oil or fish oil. Try not to eat fat with carbs as the fat will become, well, fat since your body is made to be energy efficient, by putting carbs, which are easier to break down for energy, in the same meal as fats your body stores the fat for later and uses the carbs for energy, not what you want.

3) try to eat every 2-3 hours, this is the amount of time it takes for your body to digest a meal and by giving it a constant stream of food you will ensure that your metabolism is kept high, also, calories are not the same, protein has the highest thermodynamic effect, which means that it takes more calories to digest protein than carbs or fat, this also increases your metabolism

4) You should try to get at least 50-60g of protein in every meal, this is about the max your body can take at one time

5) here are some tricks for making eating so often easier, i know it's hard, i go to school 8 hours a day and i'm not allowed to bring food into class so i have to work around that
a) Make a weeks worth of food on your day off, go buy a ton of chicken, lean turkey and very lean beef and grill it, then put it in ziplock bags and label with the amount of calories and protein per bag, YOU WILL NEED TO BUY A CHEAP SCALE FOR THIS, YOU CAN GET THEM AT GNC, MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE THAT WEIGHS IN GRAMS.
b) save grocery sacks or get a lunch box and put a full three meals or so in there, lots of chicken, jerky, tuna, those are gonna be the staples of your diet

6) Don't drink more than two protein shakes a day, there are liquid and don't have the thermic effect normal food does, normal food should make up 95% of your diet, though a shake after workout or in a pinch is perfectly fine

that should get you started, i'm sure you'll still have questions so just keep posting and i'll help you however i can, i'll be in austin though for the next couple days for a state competition, though i'll try to get on at the hotel if you post and answer when i can, here's the diet i'm on to model after

Meal 1 - 5 egg whites (cal 80, pro18), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat5), 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5). sprinkle cinnamon. TOTALS - Cal 485, carbs 53 pro 50, Fat 6.5

WORKOUT

PWO - 2 scoop whey (cal224, carb5, pro46, fat3), WMS 80g (cal280 carb68) TOTALS – Cal519, carbs73, pro58 fat 3

PPWO - Tuna 1/2 tin (cal 72,carb0 pro15 ), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat4) 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5) TOTALS – cal480 carbs53 pro50 fat5.5

meal 4 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Coconut Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Meal 5 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Flax Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Meal 6 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) hemp Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Before Bed – Lean Mince200g (cal328 pro51 fat12) TOTALS cal328 pro51 fat12

DAILY TOTAL Cal 2928Carbs 179 Protein 360 fat 68.5

Each chicken meal served with a handful of fibrous green veg bringing carbs to approx 200g per day in total.

DIET 2

Macros: Food/Calories/Protein-Carbs-Fat

Meal 1: 60g Oatmeal/225cal/8gP-41gC-2gF
turkey (99/1)/260/54gP-0gC-3gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 2: 40g Oatmeal/150cal/5gP-27gC-1.5gF
turkey (99/1)/260/54gP-0gC-3gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 3: 40g Oatmeal/150cal/5gP-27gC-1.5gF
beef (96/4)/300/50gP-0gC-8gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 4: 10mL flax oil 90cal/0gP-0gC-10gF
beef (96/4)/300/50gP-0gC-8gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 5: 10mL fish oil 90cal/0gP-0gC-10gF
Tuna 170cal/42gP-0gC-0gF
3.5 Tbsp Mayo light 70/0gP-4gC-5gF

Meal 6: Tuna 170cal/42gP-0gC-0gF
3.5 Tbsp Mayo light 70/0gP-4gC-5gF
beef or turkey 150cal/25gP-0gC-4gF

macros:Calories: 2615
Protein: 335
Carbs: 111
Fats: 74


TEST BEGINNER CYCLE INFO

here, i'll lay out some stuff for you,
first thing, you need to get your diet in check, here is some threads on cutting, lean bulking and pure bulking to give you some info, but you need to post your diet for critiqueing, your wasting your money otherwise

Diet

UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...
UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...
Appetite For Construction
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/calories/calories.html

only when you have your diet down should you think about cycling, a beginner cycle should look like this

1-12 test e 500mg/week
1-4 dbol 40mg/day ( this is used to kickstart the cycle and is optional)

take your test injections 3.5 days apart, like monday morning and thursday evening

split your dbol up throughout the day, this will keep your blood levels stable, which means less sides and more gains

if you take the dbol, supplement with liv52 to help you liver cope with breaking down the dbol

btw, here are the profiles on the AS you will be using so read them and get to know the stuff your putting in your body

Test Enth
Anabolic Review Steroid Profile: Testosterone Enanthate

Dianabol
Anabolic Review Steroid Profile: Dianabol (Methandrostenolone)

Next is your pct, which should begin two weeks after your last test injection and should be a phneedo's pct, whats that you ask? here it is

Pheendo's PCT
Pheedno's PCT

while your at it read this one as well for future cycles

Anthony Roberts PCT
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758


Now for some other important stuff, you need to have some arimidex on hand in case you start getting water retention or gyno, so get some, in fact, read this thread 3x before you start your cycle as it will tell you....

All You Need To Know About Gyno

All you need to know about GYNO.

that should get you read for your cycle, best of luck

[john vega]

for starters, I think you are way too light for ur height. at 5'11, you should and would be better off training naturally b4 you supplement...(if you know what i mean). i think your good for about 15-20 more pounds in you, and would be much more pleased with your after cycling results if you wait until than with the proper PCT..
however, if your mind has been mad up already n ur adamant about cycling, than i wud stay away from dbol only of deca only cycles.
why dont u look into a test and deca cycle for 12 weeks so ur HPTA isnt shut down as hard with deca only, (let alone, ur sex drive from the infamous deca dick)...
some nolva and clomid would suffice for proper PCT also, proper diet, and throw in sum intense training along with sound sleep every night and u create a perfect anabolic environment for growth.

GL

[Sashka88]

Thanks alot guys for all the info. I will do Test E 500mg/wk for 10 weeks. when should i expect to see results?

[Sashka88]

Thanks alot guys for all the info. I will do Test E 500mg/wk for 10 weeks. when should i expect to see results?

[jc95605]

after 4wks that ester takes awhile to kick in if you frontload maybe a lil sooner. It'll be worth it either way. Be sure to start planning your pct now as well.