(PIC INSIDE)First Cycle... Need sincere advice

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 03:50 PM

Hey there fellas,

Im 24 years old
5'7
170lbs
bf between 13% - 15%
Training and diet has been consistent

Looking to start my first cycle and after doing my research heres what i came up with. My goal is to throw on a little bit of mass but mainly i want to get shredded and be hard.

Heres a pic currently of me.

http://i36.tinypic.com/nmgi6s.jpg

Cycle:

Test Enanthate /250mg/EW/12 weeks
Winny/50mg/ED or EOD from weeks 6 - 12
PCT Clomid/Nova/ Milk Thistle

What do you guys think? All thoughts welcome... Thanks

**T_Own** · 07-23-2008, 03:54 PM

so i'm guessing thats winstrol tabs? its best to take that ed, which is easy with the pills. maybe even better to split them and take two a day?

it doesn't look too bad, kinda low on the test but thats up to you. a short ester would be better if you want to look leaner, they don't usually retain as much water, but that means more frequent shooting.

for your pct, do you mean nolva?

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 03:57 PM

Yes thats what i meant sorry...

For doing test first time everyone was telling me to start off with 250mg, you think thats a low dose?

Also for the winstrol , i was told to take the injectable orally either ED or EOD

**mkrulic** · 07-23-2008, 03:57 PM

winny cannot be taken eod. give us your diet

**T3/T4 GSR** · 07-23-2008, 03:59 PM

Honestly I think you could see nice gains on that cycle if your goals are modest and then next cycle go for 500...leaving you with the ability to grow more on less gear. Thats what I did.

**T_Own** · 07-23-2008, 03:59 PM

taking the injectable orally lowers its potency i believe. so you would have to take more like 70mg to get 50mg out of it. best to inject it or get the tabs

the test is low, but it will work. you won't gain as much as you would off 500mg, but you probably won't bloat as much either. most people sue the first cycle to bulk, not cut, which is why they go for a higher dose

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:01 PM

Im actually working on breaking my diet down properly, but mainly will consist of oats and eggs in the morning, followed by a protein bar or shake, then for lunch white chicken meat, brown rice, tuna, chicken salad, all broken down throughout the day...

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:02 PM

i think it looks good.. but just my preference i would put the winny at 8-14 week. .. so you can harden up at the end..

and i would also inject if you have injectable winny... it does lose potency.. and everday not eod

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:06 PM

really??? Because i was getting responses from numerous people saying that winstrol is equally toxic for your liver whether you take it orally or inject...

ok, so i will make the change for winny from 8 to 14 weeks..

**T_Own** · 07-23-2008, 04:08 PM

it might be equally liver toxic, but not equally efficient. i think its like 70% as potent if taken orally compared to injecting

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by T_Own

it might be equally liver toxic, but not equally efficient. i think its like 70% as potent if taken orally compared to injecting

i 2nd that.. i meant more potent as absorbtion... if you inject it you will get more of it rather than when you drink it..

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:10 PM

Got it, is there anyone here that experienced winstrol oral or injected just so i can get some views ?

And from you guys seeing my pic, you think this cycle would end up looking good on my frame?

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:10 PM

after last day of winny you start pct so
so something like this

1-12 test
8-14 winny
15-19-pct

**T_Own** · 07-23-2008, 04:11 PM

it would help. maybe not like shredded, but probably a couple % lower with some more muscle

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Gdupm6

Got it, is there anyone here that experienced winstrol oral or injected just so i can get some views ?

And from you guys seeing my pic, you think this cycle would end up looking good on my frame?

i'v done winny oral.. i was doing 50-100mg a day.. honestly i couldnt notice too much from it except my muscles were hardening.. and i was slightly more vascular but noticeably.. and i really didnt notice vascularity that much only because my bf was aroudn 16-18...but if you have low bf.. i'm sure you will notice a big difference in your vascularity..

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:13 PM

What supplement would help me get completely shredded besides of course the cardio and the diet?

I thought winny would perform a great deal in that category...

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:14 PM

you can get shredded off of this..only if you do a outstanding diet.. or lots of cardio.. or both.. but i would bring your chest up... its kind of an eye sore compared to the rest of your body.. no offense

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:17 PM

None taken at all

, Yeah definitely chest has to be brought up....

So Test 1- 12
Winny - 8 - 14 Inject or oral? Still unsure..
PCT 15 - 19

I weight in at around 170 lbs now.

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:19 PM

i would inject .. just to get the most out of it.. and my money.. but if you have problems injecting twice a day... i would just inject once a day.. 25mg and drink the 25mg later..this would save you a few bucks on needles and pins + eliminate 2xinjections a day.

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:20 PM

oh and the milk thistle.. i would take it while you were taking winny.. to help your liver out.

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:24 PM

Hey Scribbs, so I cant do just 1 injection of 50 mg a day?
And take milk thistle ED?

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:29 PM

you could do 1 injection of 50mg ed.. but its not as good as splitting the dose 2x.. i was just recomending if you are uncomfortable with sticking x2 a day.. then you can just stick once... drink once... and yes take milk thistle ED you take winny

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:34 PM

Got it... Are winny injections painful?

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:37 PM

i have heard /read that they are.. but i have never done injectoins.. only used oral

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:39 PM

Hmmm, i mean oral is just equally as toxic to the liver, its just that injection is more potent thats all, maybe instead of 50mg i can do 70 mg oral, what do you think?

My test is at 250mg for now, you think thats good?

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:42 PM

yeah you could up the dose and take it orally.. that works too..

yeah 250mg of test is fine.. since you only want to gain a bit of mass and shred... but if you wanted to see more gains i would up to 500mg.. but regardless your going to see results with 250mg and winny

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 04:45 PM

yeah ill probably up the dose to 70mg orally ED from weeks 8 to 10 then..

I mean im a first timer, never done anything like this, so can i start at 250 mg then up the dose to 500 throughout my cycle? or should i just do 250 all the way through

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 04:48 PM

you can do 250mg and up the dose to 500mg... personally i would just do 500mg throughout the whole thing.. but thats just me.. you will be fine with 250mg.. you should react well since its your first time.

**mkrulic** · 07-23-2008, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Gdupm6

What supplement would help me get completely shredded besides of course the cardio and the diet?

I thought winny would perform a great deal in that category...

cardio and diet is sufficienbt. winny will NOT help. cant say that enough. this will not burn fat.

**mkrulic** · 07-23-2008, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gdupm6

Got it... Are winny injections painful?

winny is suspended. that is a soild submersed in a liquid. shots w/ esters are solutions,i.e., state of liquid

**mkrulic** · 07-23-2008, 04:56 PM

how much would you really lose doing orally. I would rather buy 2 tabs then do injects.

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 05:01 PM

mkrulic--to be honest with you i don't know the exact percentage you would lose orally when orally using an injectable...

gdup-- also you might want to take glucosamine for your joints while you are using winny..i forgot to mention that.. some people it doesnt matter if you do or not.. i know people that didnt take it and were fine.. but it does mess with you joint lubrication.. i needed it.. just fyi.

**200byjune** · 07-23-2008, 05:01 PM

bro. your 24. 250mgs test will not do any muscle gains for you. you will be shut down. at your age i bet you are producing about 200mgs of test e a week natrually. taking 50mgs more is a waste. i agree on sticking at a low dose in the beging. so maybe take your injections e4d.

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by T_Own

it might be equally liver toxic, but not equally efficient. i think its like 70% as potent if taken orally compared to injecting

sounds like T_own is saying its 30% less effective.. but then again im not sure.. wait for more responses?

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 05:18 PM

So instead of 250 mg of test, i should do 500?

**T_Own** · 07-23-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by 200byjune

bro. your 24. 250mgs test will not do any muscle gains for you. you will be shut down. at your age i bet you are producing about 200mgs of test e a week natrually. taking 50mgs more is a waste. i agree on sticking at a low dose in the beging. so maybe take your injections e4d.

i think natural production is around 70mg a week, maybe 100 max. your body doesn't make "test e" as there is no way for your body to make the enanthate ester.. 250 will build SOME muscle, but yes, still shut you down.

and i got the 70% efficiency from another thread, so i'm not positive on that. thats a ballpark estimate

**mkrulic** · 07-23-2008, 05:39 PM

even at 50% I would rather do oral. Ive injected ugl that had crashed and it sucks.

**Gdupm6** · 07-23-2008, 05:39 PM

What do you mean by "shut you down"?

**200byjune** · 07-23-2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by T_Own

i think natural production is around 70mg a week, maybe 100 max. your body doesn't make "test e" as there is no way for your body to make the enanthate ester.. 250 will build SOME muscle, but yes, still shut you down.

and i got the 70% efficiency from another thread, so i'm not positive on that. thats a ballpark estimate

ya everyone is different. and no shit your body doesnt make an ester. test e has 70mgs of test per 100 mgs because 30mgs is the ester. 70+70=140. he produced around the much at that age. you run 250 and waster your money. i dont want this kid to spend $70 and gain 5 pounds over 12 weeks. i did not say 500mgs. it would be more like 433mgs. if you did that 20mls should last you the full 12 weeks. do what you want but im just giving you honest information that will lead to you recieving better results and making you a happier person..

**scribbs12** · 07-23-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by 200byjune

bro. your 24. 250mgs test will not do any muscle gains for you. you will be shut down. at your age i bet you are producing about 200mgs of test e a week natrually. taking 50mgs more is a waste. i agree on sticking at a low dose in the beging. so maybe take your injections e4d.

umm.. i dont think thats true... im pretty sure its not... you prodce 10-12mg a day... so 250 is good enough..