What kind of cycle would a weightlifter or gymnast use?

**Sehr** · 07-27-2008, 10:30 PM

I read that Ivan Stoitsov (this guy)

tested positive for steroids . Hes a very successful weightlifter. I was wondering what you guys think he used, or think a gymnast would use, since how much you weigh is very important in these sports.

This man, yuri van gelder has been suspected for possible steroid use aswell.

**T_Own** · 07-27-2008, 10:33 PM

i don't think many gymnasts use the roids, they are just JACKED from doing that stuff all day. if you've ever tried it its very hard..

lifting could be anything.. halo is common for good strength gains, but it could be a lot of things

**Bulldog1115** · 07-27-2008, 10:34 PM

i wood put my money on a common cutter as in test/tren /winni or var

**Big** · 07-27-2008, 10:35 PM

a much better question would be "what are these guy's diets and training regimens like", because even if you knew they cycled and knew exactly what they used, chances are great that most people using the same gear would look nothing like these guys.
regardless questions like this are hypothetical and can never really be answered.

**Bulldog1115** · 07-27-2008, 10:35 PM

my 2nd bet would possibly be, incredible genetics, hard training and maybe diet? but i could be wrong

**Sehr** · 07-27-2008, 10:45 PM

I have my doubts about any gymnast doing steroids , benefits dont outweigh the drawbacks. And like i mentioned the first guy DID use steroids and was caught.

**Sehr** · 07-27-2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bulldog1115

i wood put my money on a common cutter as in test/tren/winni or var

Yea i was thinking maybe tren . Wouldnt test cause alot of bloating from water retention, not to mention more size than tren or var would give? Is tren known to add much mass? As for Var ive heard from people that used it that they felt like shit the whole time they were on it. Not good for training.

**Bulldog1115** · 07-27-2008, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sehr

Yea i was thinking maybe tren. Wouldnt test cause alot of bloating from water retention, not to mention more size than tren or var would give? Is tren known to add much mass? As for Var ive heard from people that used it that they felt like shit the whole time they were on it. Not good for training.

ok buddy lol .. umm test can cause bloat but not to a point where a user cannot get very cut, do u think Bb before Shows arent doing test, b/c it can cause bloat?! tren is a "cutting drug" but can still cause bloat? tren adds good mass and idk bout ur var ques

**Teras** · 07-28-2008, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Big

a much better question would be "what are these guy's diets and training regimens like", because even if you knew they cycled and knew exactly what they used, chances are great that most people using the same gear would look nothing like these guys.
regardless questions like this are hypothetical and can never really be answered.

True!

**Teras** · 07-28-2008, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by T_Own

i don't think many gymnasts use the roids, they are just JACKED from doing that stuff all day. if you've ever tried it its very hard..

lifting could be anything.. halo is common for good strength gains, but it could be a lot of things

Oh come on, if it was true we would all quit lifting and jump in the rings right away... There got to me more than that. It's a whole, diet, lifting, drugs... All parts are equally important.

**Teras** · 07-28-2008, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sehr

Yea i was thinking maybe tren. Wouldnt test cause alot of bloating from water retention, not to mention more size than tren or var would give? Is tren known to add much mass? As for Var ive heard from people that used it that they felt like shit the whole time they were on it. Not good for training.

That's not true about the var. At least not in my experience.

Weightlifters can use good amount of test and still be cut, it all depends on the diet. Remember they don't take it for mass, they take drugs for strength as they are in weights categories. But what some of you guys don't seem to understand is that you can take pretty much ANY steroids to cut or bulk, it depends on training, diet and doses.

**xero** · 07-28-2008, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Teras

Oh come on, if it was true we would all quit lifting and jump in the rings right away... There got to me more than that. It's a whole, diet, lifting, drugs... All parts are equally important.

I very much doubt that any of the seriously competitive gymnasts cycle. The intensity of their training combined with exceptional genetic disposition is the thing.

You can diet, lift and cycle all you want, but unless you have the genetics, you will not get into the class of an avaerage olympic gymnast.

**one8nine** · 07-28-2008, 10:24 AM

russian bear and creatine

**xero** · 07-28-2008, 10:25 AM

Think about this...

"...think of certain instances or hobbies or jobs with repetitive movements with the repeated same load. Boat rowers, sawing lumberjacks and gymnasts. They all do repetitive movements with the same load, a boat or canoeist rower is trying to power along a boat as fast as he can, a sawing lumberjack is using power to saw down a tree, a gymnast does repeated movements with bodyweight.
All are pushing the limits trying to use as much power as possible for the task at hand. Which one of those three has a discernable musculature? Boat rowers dont have huge backs, sawing lumberjacks dont have huge arms but gymnasts always have that musculature. They sure aren't eating to get huge and most likely they aren't doing incredibly heavy weight training but you can always see the musculature on a gymnast. Why? Well which one of those three does controlled negative movements? The rowers and sawers are just using positive movements and it does virtually nothing for their musculature (science agrees with that theory-concluding that the positive movment is a strength/priming phase and the eccentric is where the magic happens)--the gymnasts on the other hand are all doing heavy eccentric and controlled negative work (iron cross/rings, pommel horse etc etc etc)--the moral of the story is your whole thinking in all this should get to the point where your curling a weight up just for the simple reason of controlling the descent downward so you can get bigger..."

Author: Dante (aka Doggcrapp)

**Teras** · 07-28-2008, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by xero

I very much doubt that any of the seriously competitive gymnasts cycle. The intensity of their training combined with exceptional genetic disposition is the thing.

You can diet, lift and cycle all you want, but unless you have the genetics, you will not get into the class of an avaerage olympic gymnast.

That's very naive. All top olympic athletes use. Why wouldn't they if they know how to do it without testing positive?? Drugs on top of the best genetic in the world will always yield a better athlete than the best genetic in the world without drugs...

There are too many example in track and field alone to not be aware that a lot of them know how to use illegal drugs without getting caught.

**T_Own** · 07-28-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Teras

Oh come on, if it was true we would all quit lifting and jump in the rings right away... There got to me more than that. It's a whole, diet, lifting, drugs... All parts are equally important.

talk about naive.. it takes YEARS to look like that. in russia, girls are taken to gymnast schools as kids, and train for 10-15 years. so yes, you could put down the weights and jump in the rings, but 10 years later you might look like that.

it might be true that more track athletes use steroids than other sports, but they still get tested after every major race. so that doesn't leave much time to get things out of their system. steroids or not, there is a definite outside factor adding in, which is good genes, hard work and dedication, otherwise the winner of the olympics would just be who can buy the most steroids...

**MercyDog** · 07-28-2008, 04:22 PM

Gotta agree with BIG, its silly to try and find a cycle that will make you look like these cats, who both appear to have a hormonal advantage. I still get a laugh watching so many guys on here trying to find the "perfect cycle", its ridiculas. How many times do vets have to say its test base then diet and training!!!!!!Thats it and thats all it will ever be. Steroids only give you enough "fuel" so to speak, to acheive different goals. But if the cars not running or just ideling along, all the best fuel in the world doesn't give you shit, you'll never even compete in a race without knowing how to drive

**Teras** · 07-28-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by T_Own

talk about naive.. it takes YEARS to look like that. in russia, girls are taken to gymnast schools as kids, and train for 10-15 years. so yes, you could put down the weights and jump in the rings, but 10 years later you might look like that.

it might be true that more track athletes use steroids than other sports, but they still get tested after every major race. so that doesn't leave much time to get things out of their system. steroids or not, there is a definite outside factor adding in, which is good genes, hard work and dedication, otherwise the winner of the olympics would just be who can buy the most steroids...

Oh yeah totally agree. I don't take anything away from them, by no means. The drugs will do nothing without the proper dedication, consistency, smart training and so one. I know what I had to go through to look how I look and it was only after 2 cycles, it does take years of natural training even with good genetics.
I'm not saying the drugs make the athlete, like Tate said: "I have a vial of test standing on my desk and I've never seen it lift a single plate..." But it does give you an edge. Look at Marion Jones she admittedly took EPO, THG, HGH and slin since '99, yet she NEVER tested positive. She underwent hundreds of controls... Not once she tested positive. So if they know they can take without being caught, why wouldn't they?

**T_Own** · 07-28-2008, 04:41 PM

that is true, some cut all the corners like that, and take whatever is barely legal, or not yet detectable. that and blood doping are the big problems (taking out blood like a month before then injecting it again before the event) that no one can solve so far. as long as people realize the years and years of work put in, i won't deny the use of steroids . i've seen it in high school athletes that think steroids are the keys to making the pros.

mercy, too many analogies haha

**xero** · 07-29-2008, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Teras

That's very naive. All top olympic athletes use. Why wouldn't they if they know how to do it without testing positive?? Drugs on top of the best genetic in the world will always yield a better athlete than the best genetic in the world without drugs...

There are too many example in track and field alone to not be aware that a lot of them know how to use illegal drugs without getting caught.

Cant agree with you.

Yes, olympic level track&field atheletes definitely use, no doubt, probably even the majority. This is obvious if you look at the proportionally high number that do get caught. They are certainly not getting away with it. There have been many very high profile failures in the last two years alone.

Gymasts are subject to same IOC testing conditions and very seldomly is there a case of test failure.

IMO the large majority of gymnasts musculature have very litle if anything to do with juice and a lot to do with many years of exceptionlly dedicated and specialized training.

**Teras** · 07-29-2008, 04:37 PM

Well like I said, anyone's musculature have very little to do with juice ALONE. It does improve your performances though. And you can't say there is a "high number" of positive tests in track... You just can't. In the past 4 years there only have been Gatlin as far as I can recall... Marion Jones, Tim Mongomery and Dwain Chambers all got suspended as a result of the balco trial. NO positive test. A very few get caught in any sports actually. When was the last time we heard of a positive test in football for example? I can't even recall any... lol Does it mean they don't do juice? Probably not, but it doesn't take away anything from their hard work that's for sure.

**xero** · 07-30-2008, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Teras

And you can't say there is a "high number" of positive tests in track... You just can't.

Afraid i can. Just in the last year the following track atheletes have failed drug tests:
Justin Gatlin, Tim Montgomery, Kelly White, and Torri Edwards

They are all within the top 3, if not the top, of their respective disciplines. Thats a significant failure rate and points to the fact that they are not doing that good a job of beating the tests.

In contrast show me 1 top 50 gymnast that has failed a test on AAS in the last 3-5 years. Doubt you will find one.

In so far as football is concerned, I would bet that the testing is a bit of a farce. Football is self regulating commercial organization that is, lets just say, has other priorities other than ensuring players are squeaky clean (money). Football would end up in a similar predicament as baseball if the leadership really decided to get righteous.

**redz** · 07-30-2008, 03:32 PM

In contrast show me 1 top 50 gymnast that has failed a test on AAS in the last 3-5 years. Doubt you will find one.

I cant prove anything but a high percentage of professional athletes in almost all spectrums use anabolics. Getting caught has little to do with whether someone is using or not. Many athletes get away with it their entire careers without ever testing positive. You think people are running the hundred meeter dash in under 9.8 seconds without steroids ?

**xero** · 07-30-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by redz

I cant prove anything but a high percentage of professional athletes in almost all spectrums use anabolics. Getting caught has little to do with whether someone is using or not. Many athletes get away with it their entire careers without ever testing positive. You think people are running the hundred meeter dash in under 9.8 seconds without steroids?

Agree with you. I think a very high percentage of track atheletes use AAS. They fact the so many of the top atheletes are getting caught is proof of this.

My point is only that i believe that the number of gymnasts that use is probably significantly less in proportion to track athletes. My main point though is that the average gymnasts above average musculature has more to do with their specialized training from an early age than it from AAS use.

**Teras** · 07-31-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by xero

Afraid i can. Just in the last year the following track atheletes have failed drug tests:
Justin Gatlin, Tim Montgomery, Kelly White, and Torri Edwards

Gatlin is the only recent one, which I mentioned, and that was in 2006.

Tim Montgomery NEVER failed a test, he and Marion Jones felt victims of the balco scandal. Kelly White had to witness against him actually.

Kelly White and Edwards it was back in 2004!!!!!!!! Not exactly last year.

So like I said, in the past 4 years, only ONE positive test.

**Lemonada8** · 07-31-2008, 11:35 AM

Why does everyone assume athletes are all juicing? Yes I think that people are breaking 10 on the hundred w/o the juice, the way u are arguing is that u have never been around those phoenominal athletes and train with them.... So quit trying to come up with excuses for yourself and why u can't do anything because instead of training and eating right and don't have the genetics, but don't put down the quality of genetics, training and good diet, which most likely is the only thing they got

**groundandpoundpwr21** · 07-31-2008, 02:00 PM

Gymnist dont use steroids , they also dont lift weights. Everything they do is done with body weight.

**Teras** · 07-31-2008, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

Why does everyone assume athletes are all juicing? Yes I think that people are breaking 10 on the hundred w/o the juice, the way u are arguing is that u have never been around those phoenominal athletes and train with them.... So quit trying to come up with excuses for yourself and why u can't do anything because instead of training and eating right and don't have the genetics, but don't put down the quality of genetics, training and good diet, which most likely is the only thing they got

LOL where did that come from? Don't act like that when you obviously have no clue who or what you're talking about bro. I have actually trained with a lot of world class athletes, former world champions, pro athletes, talked to physical therapists and doctors who follow them... As I wrote several times, drugs doesn't take away anything from them. I still admire for their dedication, but most olympic athletes do use them whether you like it or not. They should just allow all use like in wrestling or football, it's a freaken show for god sake, who really cares if they take drugs or not...

And believe me, I'm VERY happy with my genetics thank you for your irrelevant and naive argument.