Drawing Issues, First Cycle, First Shot, Ya!!!

**wukillabee** · 08-04-2008, 05:03 PM

Ive been shooting b12 ed for the last 7 days to get a idea of how to inject properly before i use the real deal. Rotated ed with shoulders, quads, pecs, and glutes to give me 8 sites cus i want to use prop for my 3rd cycle. Every site was almost painless except for my glutes and quads, got some charley horses in those spots 15 min after inject for about an hour and no pain next day. I have all terumo equip, pins, syringes, etc. I have 23g 1 1.5" to draw and 25g 1" for small sites and 1 1.5" for glutes still 25g. Drawing and injecting was so easy and flawless with the water based b12, not with my gear. Today was the start of my first cycle (500mg of test enth for 10 weeks shot every mon and thurs). I used my 23g to draw and almost nothing would draw! I know my gear is underground and very legit, no problem there. Not sure what kind of oil was used to make my gear but could find out if that makes a difference in thickness of oil. Many members on here have told me that 23g would be fine to draw and 25g for shots everywhere with oil based test. I aspirated 1.5ml of air, poked pin into vial upside down, pressed the 1.5 ml of air into vial slowly watching the bubbles go into the gear to creat my vacum effect, pulled back on the plunger to draw and to my surprise it was hard to draw and when i would draw i would only get a few drops of gear per ml! I then kept the pin in vial upside down, placed the pin higher than the gear level to press in 3ml of air (since now i had only a few drops of gear and the plunger back to the end of my 3ml syringe), then drew again and not much better. Had to do this method several times to finally get 1ml of gear into my syringe, like pumping a damn super soaker almost. Then switched to my 25g 1" pin and shot into my right quad slowly since i had no choice cus it was hard as hell to begin with to shoot my 1ml of gear with the 25g pin.

My questions are:
1. Is this common and all i need is a bigger pin to draw and a bigger pin to shoot?
2. Is my gear made with a thick oil that makes this uncommon since so many members have told me that what im using is fine for the type of gear I have?

I already ordered some 20g pins to draw and 23g pins both 1" and 1 1.5" to shoot today and my source had 1 new BD 18g pin for me to use to draw til i get my order. Should i just use the 23g 1 1.5" pin to shoot while i wait for my order to come through and just save all my 25g pins for the future if i do any water based gear? Im not scared of needles, just want to have the least amount of chance to create scar tissue.

Other than that, another point for the dark side! No pain at all with my first shot today but now 4-5 hrs later i feel a nice charley horse in my quad that has me walkin with a slight limp. No biggie though, virgin muscles and all and well worth it in the long run! Thanks for any input u guys can give me and for reading my long thread!

**one8nine** · 08-04-2008, 05:08 PM

1. not common but yes
2. could be oil or solvents but yes, you just need to go thicker.

never reuse needles if thats what you are asking?

good job bro! take some day one pictures/measures so we can compare in the end!

**wukillabee** · 08-04-2008, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

1. not common but yes
2. could be oil or solvents but yes, you just need to go thicker.

never reuse needles if thats what you are asking?

good job bro! take some day one pictures/measures so we can compare in the end!

I placed my order today and should hopefully hve it by monday (7 days from now). My next shot is thursday and will use my new 18g to draw that day and a new 23g to shoot that day and hopefully should have my shipment for monday's inject. If u search summer cutter log you'll see some pretty recent pics of me at the end. DId before and after pics then and the after pics are maybe a month or so old but same condition and strength. Did a cycle of gaspari orginal halodrol-50 for 40 days with 11-oxo, nice cutter cycle and strength gains! I was going to the gym today an hour after inject and was gonna do some quads and cardio in my routine since i injected quads but some emergency errands that popped up and stopped me from workin out today. Oh well, got the next 4 days to work out in a row and will take the weekend off and start again on monday. Damn this charley horse feeling really lets u know u shot some goods huh? Hopefully it doesnt feel too bad tomorrrow. Thanks bro! SO u think the 20g for drawing and 23g to shoot everywhere will be fine? Hope so cus my order is already in and ordered plenty of it! SO nice that pins and syringes are so dang cheap!

**one8nine** · 08-04-2008, 06:22 PM

yeah i hope thats good enough unless they used maple syrup instead of oil!

**wukillabee** · 08-04-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

yeah i hope thats good enough unless they used maple syrup instead of oil!

HAha! Fu*k this charley horse is gettin worse, really walkin with a limp now. Im sure its just cus my muscles are still virgin towards any aas. Did everything by the book (except for the super soaker effect, haha) so there shouldnt be any infection and gear looks clean. See how it goes tomorrow i guess. Next time after i get the oil in the syringe ill run the syringe under warm water to warm up the oil, maybe that will help with the pain? Just didnt do any tricks cus i wanted to see how the pain was doin it raw. COuld also try cuttin it with my b12 too, give it that lava lampp effect. That will really freak out my gurl when she shoots my glutes, haha!

**kloter1** · 08-04-2008, 08:52 PM

Make sure you put some pressure on the site afterwards and massage it. I use 25g 5/8s needles and Ive never had any problems. I use 18 to draw too. Forgot to mention that I ran out of my drawing needles once and I used a 25g. It took a long ass time but its all I had.

**wukillabee** · 08-04-2008, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by kloter1

Make sure you put some pressure on the site afterwards and massage it. I use 25g 5/8s needles and Ive never had any problems. I use 18 to draw too. Forgot to mention that I ran out of my drawing needles once and I used a 25g. It took a long ass time but its all I had.

I did all that, just didnt cut it or heat it up to reduce pain. After i withdrew the pin i put on a swab and massaged pretty good for about 3-5 minutes then put on a little band aid. Was good with no problems then about 5 hrs later it hit me, crazy charley horse now! I get in and out of a big vehicle for 8 hrs 5 days a week and this is killin. Not cryin or complaining but kinda surprised it would hurt this much. Already had a couple of people here at work ask whats up with my limp, just told em it was a hard leg day today since they all know i workout. Gonna put a heat pad on tonite while i sleep and next time im gonna cut with .5ml of b12 and see if that helps. Guess my gear is mixed with some kind of thick oil cus i couldnt imagine drawing with a 25g with this gear! Since its my first cycle and all i cant compare to other gear but like i said, could barely draw with a 23g and had to press hard as hell on the plunger to shoot with a 25g in my right quad. Felt like if i pressed any harder the syringe would break. Took about 30-45 seconds to shoot the 1ml of test with a lot of pressure. Oh well, no pain no gain huh? Hopefully its just virgin muscles and will stop happening down the road and by my 3rd cycle the prop wont be so bad? Wishful thinking, haha.

**wukillabee** · 08-05-2008, 04:24 PM

Not bein a pus*y but fu*k this shit hurts! Pain kicked in about 5-6 hrs after injection like a horse kicked me in my quad. Was limping so bad lastnite at work. Today i was gonna go to the gym but still woke up with so much pain and soreness in my quad. I would have been hobbling around the gym if i would have went making it very awkward. Kinda sucks, roids good but cant train cus of pain roids cause, sucks. Gonna try a heat pad tonite while asleep and train tomorrow. FOr thursday's shot ima do my left delt and dip the vial in a cup of hot water for a bit and see if that helps. For sure gonna try to do some shoulders on thursday so this pain doesnt hinder my training anymore. Now i know what u guys mean when u say to train the same muscle group as u shoot! No way i could hav done legs yesterday when the pain finally kicked in or today. Oh well, hopefully its just my virgin muscles and will get better over time.

**wukillabee** · 08-06-2008, 04:51 PM

Bumped to go with my below thread for moe info.

**DS21** · 08-07-2008, 02:38 PM

My last cycle was prop, I had to go higher then normal for quads. I went about 6" lower then my hip. That helped out a lot with the pain.

**binder** · 08-09-2008, 08:22 PM

23g should work fine. works great for mine. 25g will not push.

i draw it up with 18g and inject with 23 gauge. I also heat my vial prior to drawing up in scalding water. Makes it thinner and works great. never had a problem.

**wukillabee** · 08-09-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by binder

23g should work fine. works great for mine. 25g will not push.

i draw it up with 18g and inject with 23 gauge. I also heat my vial prior to drawing up in scalding water. Makes it thinner and works great. never had a problem.

Yep, drew with an 18g on thursday and shot my right delt with a 23g no problem. Just kinda hard to aspirate with one hand, gotta get the hang of it. Woke up friday with some good pain and slight swelling and today with some pain and less swelliing. I can bend my arm and stretch it pretty good now with just a slight pain and very minimal swelling. I forgot to heat up the gear thursday so i did it raw again. WOuld it be better to heat the whole vial then draw or draw and heat the syringe where the oil is? Seems if u heat the vial first u might mess up the concentration and if u heat the syringe u might get some of that tap water in. Whats the best way? i was thinking heating the vial would be easier but just worried because i dont want to mess up the concentration and heating the syringe makes more sense cus u already draw it up but worried about getting any outside water in the syringe. SOrry if it sounds like a stupid question, just havent tired either way yet and picturing it in my head seems like some outside tap water could go into the syringe. Thanks!

**binder** · 08-09-2008, 09:01 PM

do NOT put a syringe in water.....it's not sealed

you put a SEALED vial in water, then you sterilize the top really well before drawing out of it.

i don't know what you mean with messing with the concentration. It can't evaporate in a sealed container so how is the concentration going to change? it won't.

**troublesome** · 08-09-2008, 09:18 PM

how bout put some air in the bottle first (but not too much where the bottle explodes lol) draw to the end of the syringe and hold it and even if it is maple syrpe or it'll fill pretty fast, i always use a 25g to draw because i use that to inject and dont bother to buy 2 sizes. if its your first time drawing oil i understand i was like wtf too when i first tried it

**wukillabee** · 08-09-2008, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by binder

do NOT put a syringe in water.....it's not sealed

you put a SEALED vial in water, then you sterilize the top really well before drawing out of it.

i don't know what you mean with messing with the concentration. It can't evaporate in a sealed container so how is the concentration going to change? it won't.

Alrite. Ho about filling up a coffee mug and putting it in the microwave for say 30-45 seconds and then tipping the bottom half of the vial in it for 10 seconds or so to heat up the oil? That way nothing outside comes in contact with the top half of the vial.

**hockeyguy** · 08-09-2008, 10:54 PM

Fill the glass up just enough so that you can set the vial in there and water is about half way up the vial. Let it sit for about 10 min, pull it out than take an alchol wipe and wipe down the top of the vial. Let the alchol dry than draw.

**wukillabee** · 08-09-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by hockeyguy

Fill the glass up just enough so that you can set the vial in there and water is about half way up the vial. Let it sit for about 10 min, pull it out than take an alchol wipe and wipe down the top of the vial. Let the alchol dry than draw.

Oh sh*t, i didnt know it took 10 min to get this oil warm. Im sure we're looking for luke warm or slightly above that right? Dont want to shoot up boiling oil, haha.

**wukillabee** · 08-09-2008, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by troublesome

how bout put some air in the bottle first (but not too much where the bottle explodes lol) draw to the end of the syringe and hold it and even if it is maple syrpe or it'll fill pretty fast, i always use a 25g to draw because i use that to inject and dont bother to buy 2 sizes. if its your first time drawing oil i understand i was like wtf too when i first tried it

Yep, cant u tell? First shot was monday morning and second was thursday night.

**binder** · 08-10-2008, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by troublesome

how bout put some air in the bottle first (but not too much where the bottle explodes lol) draw to the end of the syringe and hold it and even if it is maple syrpe or it'll fill pretty fast, i always use a 25g to draw because i use that to inject and dont bother to buy 2 sizes. if its your first time drawing oil i understand i was like wtf too when i first tried it

it must take you 30 minutes to draw that up. I tried one day at the office just to see because we had patient complaining about using a 23g. After 10 minutes i only had ~1cc of oil. I heated it up too. Oil is just too thick for 25g.

I get the oil as hot as i can. You have to understand that it's going to take a while for the heat to be absorbed by the oil. I just use the hottest water out of tap and set the vial in it. It doesn't matter if you get water on the top of the vial because you are going to sterilize it before you draw it up anyways. When i pick the vial up to draw it, it's so hot that the oil is nice and thin. It won't burn you because the heat will be reduced greatly once you draw it into the syringe (due to the time it takes to sterilize your injection area and the small quantity of oil it will dissipate the heat fast).

**wukillabee** · 08-10-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by binder

it must take you 30 minutes to draw that up. I tried one day at the office just to see because we had patient complaining about using a 23g. After 10 minutes i only had ~1cc of oil. I heated it up too. Oil is just too thick for 25g.

I get the oil as hot as i can. You have to understand that it's going to take a while for the heat to be absorbed by the oil. I just use the hottest water out of tap and set the vial in it. It doesn't matter if you get water on the top of the vial because you are going to sterilize it before you draw it up anyways. When i pick the vial up to draw it, it's so hot that the oil is nice and thin. It won't burn you because the heat will be reduced greatly once you draw it into the syringe (due to the time it takes to sterilize your injection area and the small quantity of oil it will dissipate the heat fast).

That makes sense. No, i was originally using a 23g to draw and a 25g to shoot since most members on here said id be fine with that and wanted to use the smallest pin possible to reduce any possible scare tissue. Took a lot of pumping of the plunger to draw up my oil with the 23g and almost as long to shoot it. Sucks cus now i have tons of 25g pins that i cant really use now and ordered 20g pins to draw now and 23g pins to shoot. Should have my order by wednesday and already have 1cc in the syringe waiting for me for monday's morning inject.

**binder** · 08-10-2008, 01:23 PM

not a wise idea to let it sit in a syringe. syringes aren't sealed and allow the solution to come in contact with non-sterile air.

**wukillabee** · 08-10-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by binder

not a wise idea to let it sit in a syringe. syringes aren't sealed and allow the solution to come in contact with non-sterile air.

Fu*k, u think its that bad? I only did it cus i had only 1 18g pin and didnt want to reuse the same pin twice til i got my order of pins in the mail. I keep all my gear and the syringe with cap on needle in my safe untouched. I drew up 2ml on thursday, shot 1ml with 23g, put cap back on needle, placed syringe in safe for monday mornings shot. Can i get more input on this guys? Should i discard the needle and be out 1ml or should i be ok for this one time? It shouldnt happen again since i ordered a ton of 20g pins to draw and 23g to shoot, just wont get em til wednesday.

**binder** · 08-10-2008, 05:27 PM

i wouldn't throw it away but i definitely wouldn't do it again. Its best to have it in a sealed sterile vial until ready for injection. Chances are you'll be fine, but i personally don't like to take even a 1% chance of infection.

**wukillabee** · 08-10-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by binder

i wouldn't throw it away but i definitely wouldn't do it again. Its best to have it in a sealed sterile vial until ready for injection. Chances are you'll be fine, but i personally don't like to take even a 1% chance of infection.

Yeah i know, usually the first cycle is where all the mistakes are made haha. I was all shit originally, got like 50 terumo syringes with 23g 1 1.5 pins on them already to draw, 30 25g 1" pins to shoot quads, delts, (pecs if i get the balls for it), and 25 25g 1 1.5" pins for glutes since everyone said before hand i would have no problem. Then day 1 of shooting came and took forever to draw with my 23g and even longer to shoot with my 25g. Lucky enough to only get 1 18g pin from my source so i used that to draw on thursday 2ml (1ml for thursday and 1ml on monday). Ordered my pins asap on monday after discovering how thick my gear was and ordered like 50 20g 1 1.5" to draw and 50 23g 1 1.5 and 1" pins to shoot. Just wont get new pins til wednesday. Hopefully i dont see this problem ever happening again in the future.

**binder** · 08-10-2008, 09:04 PM

ya, it happens. you live you learn.

with heating it you should have no problem drawing up with the 23g though.

**hockeyguy** · 08-10-2008, 09:11 PM

I heat for 10 min in and use a 23 with no problems at all drawing.

**wukillabee** · 08-10-2008, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by binder

ya, it happens. you live you learn.

with heating it you should have no problem drawing up with the 23g though.

Thanks guys! I think i got it now. Only reason why i wanted to use a small guage pin to draw with is because of people sayin how using a 18g can cause pieces of the rubber stopper to break off into the gear and what not. Dont want anything like that happening. SInce tomorrow's shot is already in the syringe, ill warm up the vial on thursday nights shot. Maybe tomorrow morning ill suck up .5cc of my b12 (500mcg) and see if that helps with the pain. Cant hurt to try since i already have it. Gonna shot right glute tomorrow. I know it might be a just me but i already fell slightly fuller. My muscle feel a little fuller. Maybe its cus i just took 12 days off from training since i was on vacation and my first day back in the gym was with a shot of test. Could just be my body gettin back into it but i feel pretty good. Cant wait for this stuff to really kick in. People say increased libido is the first step, havent really noticed that hit yet. Another member suggested i think its ethyl oleate oil to cut my gear with. Might order some of that and see if it helps with inject pain. Do u guys always get a slight swelling in the inject site the next day or is it just cus of my virgin muscles? Just like a half dollar size swell that only raises a few centimeters near the inject site the next day or 6-8hrs later when the pain is peaking. Just wondering, not a big deal and much less pain in my delt compared to my quad, omg!