Novice about to begin using but not sure which to use

[football3355]

hello everyone, I just registered to the forums and have a question. I am 24 yrs old around 5'9 180 lbs and have been heavily researching which type of gear to use for the past 6 months and still have not come to a conclusion about which one: Test. Suspension or Test. Enanthate? I know enanthate does not have to be injected as fequently (week compared to day) but I want to do suspension because it works faster and if I have unbearible side-effects its half life will enable me to discontinue its use unlike test E where its ester lingers its effects for weeks. So my question is, which type of gear would better suit a novice user that has never used gear before but knows enough info to safely use either in terms of side effects, gains in a given amount of time, and all-around effectiveness and price of course. I know some may counter my question by asking well he should know this is studying for 6 months, but i cant figure out why sites say test sus is "stronger" then test e when chemically they are the same besides test e's ester, but there bases are the same. Thanks alot

[breakbones]

Welcome!

[one8nine]

hello everyone, I just registered to the forums and have a question. I am 24 yrs old around 5'9 180 lbs and have been heavily researching which type of gear to use for the past 6 months and still have not come to a conclusion about which one: Test. Suspension or Test. Enanthate? I know enanthate does not have to be injected as fequently (week compared to day) but I want to do suspension because it works faster and if I have unbearible side-effects its half life will enable me to discontinue its use unlike test E where its ester lingers its effects for weeks. So my question is, which type of gear would better suit a novice user that has never used gear before but knows enough info to safely use either in terms of side effects, gains in a given amount of time, and all-around effectiveness and price of course. I know some may counter my question by asking well he should know this is studying for 6 months, but i cant figure out why sites say test sus is "stronger" then test e when chemically they are the same besides test e's ester, but there bases are the same. Thanks alot

im actually very impressed for this being your first post! good job!

by the way sustanon sucks, always

also, test propionate is a much better alternative to test suspension. prop is injected once daily, suspension is 2x-3x.
test e is injected 2x a week, not once.

it comes down to your preference- 95% of (educated) starters go with 10 weeks of test e, 500mg/wk

[Jfew44]

^^ Never fails lol. That was a very educated first post, agreed. Like one8nine said most first time users go with a test e cycle, either alone or kickstarted with dbol. Alot of guys on here who have experience with sust say not to take it. Some like it alot but I would recommend a test e only cycle at 500mg/week.

Let us know what you decide and good luck! Hope to see a cycle log when you get started.

[football3355]

thanks guys, yeah I try to learn as much information as possible first before I ask questions, unlike alot of people who dont search and just ask cluelessly on forums. As for the gear, thanks for the advice. I was thinkin test e too but wasnt sure which would bring out more results for a novice. I also heard test sust shots were only once daily not 3x? WOW that = major pain! Glad I came here and found out the truth. Now between test e and test prop, what are some major differences besides the esters (test e being much larger/longer)? Would the side-effects be the same as one another since like I said in my last post, these testosterones have the same base chem formula, just no ester or different esters. And also, what would give me faster results without compromising the gains to side effects ratio? Is there much difference...

[football3355]

also I heard test prop is more of a kick-starter because of its extremely short ester compared to test e, so should I start with test prop is I want quick results and continue it just like i would test e. or should i take test e and wait for the effects to come. Also, what mg/wk do you recommend for either

[one8nine]

we have confusion here
testosterone suspension
testosterone blend called Sustanon
2 very different things

sustanon is a blend of esters, that sucks

suspension is testosterone with no ester that is injected about every 8-12 hours, which works but the only real application i can see for this is pro tested athletes.

[one8nine]

also I heard test prop is more of a kick-starter because of its extremely short ester compared to test e, so should I start with test prop is I want quick results and continue it just like i would test e. or should i take test e and wait for the effects to come. Also, what mg/wk do you recommend for either

testosterone propionate vs. testosterone enanthate

test prop-
injected daily
peaks in 4-6 days
pct starts 2 days later
minimal bloat
more potent than test e mg for mg due to ester weight
recommended dosage- 50mg ed (350mg wk)

test enan-
injected 2x week
peaks in 4-6 weeks
pct starts 2 weeks later
noticeable bloat
less potent than test p mg for mg due to ester weight
recommended dosage- 250mg 2x week (500mg wk)

[football3355]

awsome guys, great info helps alot. And I was wondering for future nformation and cycles, between dbol and anadrol, which better to kick=start the gains and which is more potent?

[mkrulic]

testosterone propionate vs. testosterone enanthate

test prop-
injected daily
peaks in 4-6 days
pct starts 2 days later
minimal bloat
more potent than test e mg for mg due to ester weight
recommended dosage- 50mg ed (350mg wk)

test enan-
injected 2x week
peaks in 4-6 weeks
pct starts 2 weeks later
noticeable bloat
less potent than test p mg for mg due to ester weight
recommended dosage- 250mg 2x week (500mg wk)

this really comes down to personal experience. I bloated big time on an all prop cycle and none on a gram of test e per week w/ 100mg of anadrol per day. my diet sucked when I was running the prop. In my opionion it comes down to diet. if you diet tight and do cardio I dont think bloat will be a problem. also, enan is not that level at 2 shots per week

[football3355]

so if i want a fast acting injectable but dont want suspension, is prop the way to go?

[one8nine]

so if i want a fast acting injectable but dont want suspension, is prop the way to go?

yes.



dear propionate,

sincerely, 189

[one8nine]

awsome guys, great info helps alot. And I was wondering for future nformation and cycles, between dbol and anadrol, which better to kick=start the gains and which is more potent?

this is an epic arguement, discussed on many posts here are some for you

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...anabol+anadrol

[kynetguy]

so if i want a fast acting injectable but dont want suspension, is prop the way to go?

Prop is the way to go if you want it to kick in faster. Another benefit of Prop over enan or cyp is mg for mg you get MORE actual test. A prop cycle will cost you more, but you are also getting more hormone.

First cycle, start off with .5 prop ED. YOu ahve fresh, clean, virgin receptors. Don't abuse them straight out the gate.

[kynetguy]

For the record, Sustanon doesn't suck. :-)

[football3355]

Prop is the way to go if you want it to kick in faster. Another benefit of Prop over enan or cyp is mg for mg you get MORE actual test. A prop cycle will cost you more, but you are also getting more hormone.

First cycle, start off with .5 prop ED. YOu ahve fresh, clean, virgin receptors. Don't abuse them straight out the gate.

what do you mean by .5 prop every day? 50mg? and is that COMPLETELY effective and will give really good gains?

[one8nine]

For the record, Sustanon doesn't suck. :-)

sust sucks
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=352930

[football3355]

sust sucks
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=352930

yes i have heard that the test mix in test sust makes it not too great of gear. I could be wrong though.....

[kynetguy]

sust sucks
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=352930

Looks likt to me you are the only person in the thread saying that. . .oh and a quote from Anthony Roberts, I believe it was. . .

Pst. . .I will let you in on a secret. . .test is test. And with sust, you will get more actual hormone than straight cyp or enanthate. 3 of the four esters are shorter than either Cyp or Enan. (only 1 carbon molecule difference in the two)

Shorter esters = less total weight consumed by the ester chain. Dosage is total weight of the compound per ml. (ie 250mg/ml) so of that 250mg, more of that weight is test in Sust than in Enan or cyp.

If you shoot sust ED or EOD, your sides should be no different than any other test and your blood levels will be stable. The more frequently you shoot ANY gear, the better off you will be. The big mistake people make is thinking you can shoot it 2x per week.

The only drawback to Sust is it usually costs more.

[kynetguy]

what do you mean by .5 prop every day? 50mg? and is that COMPLETELY effective and will give really good gains?

.5ml, , yes 50 mg. That is 350 a week. If you are eating right, yes you will have good gains, especially on virgin receptors. THe nice thing is you will get gains you can more easily keep.

[mkrulic]

Looks likt to me you are the only person in the thread saying that. . .oh and a quote from Anthony Roberts, I believe it was. . .

Pst. . .I will let you in on a secret. . .test is test. And with sust, you will get more actual hormone than straight cyp or enanthate. 3 of the four esters are shorter than either Cyp or Enan. (only 1 carbon molecule difference in the two)

Shorter esters = less total weight consumed by the ester chain. Dosage is total weight of the compound per ml. (ie 250mg/ml) so of that 250mg, more of that weight is test in Sust than in Enan or cyp.

If you shoot sust ED or EOD, your sides should be no different than any other test and your blood levels will be stable. The more frequently you shoot ANY gear, the better off you will be. The big mistake people make is thinking you can shoot it 2x per week.

The only drawback to Sust is it usually costs more.

more hormone does not mean more hormone in your sys. enan and cyp might weigh more than prop but you will have more test in your sys using longer chain esters becuase of the way they build up.

[kynetguy]

more hormone does not mean more hormone in your sys. enan and cyp might weigh more than prop but you will have more test in your sys using longer chain esters becuase of the way they build up.

But on longer esters, the actual peak value is lower. If you look at the release rate of a long vs short ester, the short ester releases all its hormone over a shorter time period. However, 500 a week is 500 a week. Once your levels are stable, you are still taking 500 a week. . .

a 100mg of prop will release in 3 days vs 250 of enan over 10-14 days.

Do you have any links or documentation on this?

None the less, at the end of a given cycle length, you will have had more hormone with prop than enan. Or any other short ester when compared to a long ester.

[football3355]

But on longer esters, the actual peak value is lower. If you look at the release rate of a long vs short ester, the short ester releases all its hormone over a shorter time period. However, 500 a week is 500 a week. Once your levels are stable, you are still taking 500 a week. . .

a 100mg of prop will release in 3 days vs 250 of enan over 10-14 days.

Do you have any links or documentation on this?

None the less, at the end of a given cycle length, you will have had more hormone with prop than enan. Or any other short ester when compared to a long ester.

I see what you mean, but besides this fact, I just want a short esterfied molecule like prop since it will work FASTER, since I have never used before and like some people ave stated, I have "virgin" receptors and I dont want to wait 3 weeks for enanth to start working. I rather pay a little extra (or the same where I am thnking of going) especially since the acual steroid will work kind of like test susp in the beginning weeks unlike enanth. plus less bloat and overall detection is much less and if i realize the dose it too high or too low, I can change it quick without having a depot delay like enanth would.

also how long should I run test prop at 50mg-100mg per day? (wks)

[mkrulic]

But on longer esters, the actual peak value is lower. If you look at the release rate of a long vs short ester, the short ester releases all its hormone over a shorter time period. However, 500 a week is 500 a week. Once your levels are stable, you are still taking 500 a week. . .

a 100mg of prop will release in 3 days vs 250 of enan over 10-14 days.

Do you have any links or documentation on this?

None the less, at the end of a given cycle length, you will have had more hormone with prop than enan. Or any other short ester when compared to a long ester.

just plug in the numbers and see for yourself.

[kynetguy]

just plug in the numbers and see for yourself.

Plug what numbers in where?

Lets compare Prop and Cyp:

Every 100 mg you inject, Cyp gives you 69.90mg of actual hormone and prop gives you 83.72mg.


For a 500mg/week cycle you get 349.50mg with Cyp and 418.60mg with prop.

Over a 10 week cycle you are getting 691mg more of test with the shorter ester. (3,495mg Cyp vs 4,186mg Prop)

Three days after your last Prop inj it basically has exhausted itself, compared to 10-14 days with Cyp. (see PCT Start times as another reference for this)

So in 10 weeks and 3 days you will have had 4,186mg of actual Test with prop. This considers a shot every day with the last one being at the last day of 10 weeks and having an effective release of 3 days.

In 11 weeks and 3.5days you will have had 3,495mg of actual test with Cyp. This consideres that you take Cyp every 3.5 days with the last shot being at 9 weeks and 3.5days and having an effective release over 2 weeks.

SO, how can a longer ester give you a higher level at anytime in the cycle when you consider:

1) Mg per mg you get more hormone with a short ester.
2) The hormone is released more quicky with a shorter ester.

If you get more in a less time, your peaks are going to be higher.

[one8nine]

if you have 5 grams of test prop, or 5 grams of test e, you get more prom the prop

the prop is medium all the way through
the enanthate is low in the beginning high in the end

in the end 5 grams is 5 grams (discounting ester)

[one8nine]

Looks likt to me you are the only person in the thread saying that. . .oh and a quote from Anthony Roberts, I believe it was. . .

Pst. . .I will let you in on a secret. . .test is test. And with sust, you will get more actual hormone than straight cyp or enanthate. 3 of the four esters are shorter than either Cyp or Enan. (only 1 carbon molecule difference in the two)

Shorter esters = less total weight consumed by the ester chain. Dosage is total weight of the compound per ml. (ie 250mg/ml) so of that 250mg, more of that weight is test in Sust than in Enan or cyp.

If you shoot sust ED or EOD, your sides should be no different than any other test and your blood levels will be stable. The more frequently you shoot ANY gear, the better off you will be. The big mistake people make is thinking you can shoot it 2x per week.

The only drawback to Sust is it usually costs more.

its the dosage schedule
and that wasnt ar that said that

[mkrulic]

Plug what numbers in where?

Lets compare Prop and Cyp:

Every 100 mg you inject, Cyp gives you 69.90mg of actual hormone and prop gives you 83.72mg.


For a 500mg/week cycle you get 349.50mg with Cyp and 418.60mg with prop.

Over a 10 week cycle you are getting 691mg more of test with the shorter ester. (3,495mg Cyp vs 4,186mg Prop)

Three days after your last Prop inj it basically has exhausted itself, compared to 10-14 days with Cyp. (see PCT Start times as another reference for this)

So in 10 weeks and 3 days you will have had 4,186mg of actual Test with prop. This considers a shot every day with the last one being at the last day of 10 weeks and having an effective release of 3 days.

In 11 weeks and 3.5days you will have had 3,495mg of actual test with Cyp. This consideres that you take Cyp every 3.5 days with the last shot being at 9 weeks and 3.5days and having an effective release over 2 weeks.

SO, how can a longer ester give you a higher level at anytime in the cycle when you consider:

1) Mg per mg you get more hormone with a short ester.
2) The hormone is released more quicky with a shorter ester.

If you get more in a less time, your peaks are going to be higher.

its not linear. google exponential decay. I dont have a calculator so you are going to have to punch the numbers in yourself but here is the formula if you are shooting 100mg of test p and 70mg of test e
test e
70*(.5)^(t/7)
after 1 week we would have (injecting ed)
70*(.5)^(1/7) + 70*(.5)^(2/7) + 70*(.5)^(3/7) + 70*(.5)^(4/7) +
+ 70*(.5)^(5/7) + 70*(.5)^(6/7) + 70*(.5)^(7/7)

the prop is done the same way. only instead of a 7 put in a 2. instead of 70 use 100
I think it will overtake in a week but it might take two.

[kynetguy]

its not linear. google exponential decay. I dont have a calculator so you are going to have to punch the numbers in yourself but here is the formula if you are shooting 100mg of test p and 70mg of test e
test e
70*(.5)^(t/7)
after 1 week we would have (injecting ed)
70*(.5)^(1/7) + 70*(.5)^(2/7) + 70*(.5)^(3/7) + 70*(.5)^(4/7) +
+ 70*(.5)^(5/7) + 70*(.5)^(6/7) + 70*(.5)^(7/7)

the prop is done the same way. only instead of a 7 put in a 2. instead of 70 use 100
I think it will overtake in a week but it might take two.

You have to have your decays on actual usage. IE: Enen at 250mg every 3.5 days and prop at 75mg ED. (75 ED actually gives you 525 a weeks, so for apples to apples you should use 71.43mg/day)

Exponential decay does work to a degree, but it is not taking into consideration the actual amount of raw hormone. Unfortunately, with enan you get less effective hormone than with prop.

You are right, it is not linear at all. Everything you inject comes on in a wave. Which is why frequency is so important. the closer these waves are together, the more stable your levels remain.

I will play with your formula. I am not certain this is the right formula for this. Because unlike something like a radioactive isotope which has a predictable and constant half-life, the esters slow the release of the hormone.

What has to be considered is the actual release rate. Since, for example, prop slows by 2-3 days, it is not until day two or three that a particular injection has released all its hormone. You will get SOME release along the way, but the bulk of its load is released close to the end of the ester life rather than in the middle. So, I do not believe that we are dealing with a true half life here.