A must read on sus 250

[papas]

i am sick and tired of everyone saying sus 250 is crap.. and u dont need to jab it every second day.. All you need is sum prop to go with..

example shoot 1 ml of sus on Monday and one on Friday..Now add 70mg of prop to the sus 250 shots every monday and friday so we can make up 100mg of prop per shot because the sus has 30mg of prop thats why we have to add another 70mg of prop..and simply take a 100mg of prop by it self on Wednesday

and there u have it the 100mg of prop mon wen fri.. which will give us a total of 500mg of sus 250 plus,240mg of prop per week for a total of 740mg of test per week..

[PT]

screw the extra prop. i use omandren alot because i get it for about a quarter the price of what most of you pay for a test amp and i usually shoot around 500mgs either 2 or 3 times a weeks and always have great results. i love the different esters but of course your blood levels will differ at times but i have never had any more sides or any less gaing so im fine with that

[rhino1]

lol all of your aussi's are really stuck on sus

[stallion_1]

actually i gotta agree with this dude, im tired of people talking crap on sustanon, ommandren. and no im not an aussie, im an american born and raised, and i happen to like sustanon. sustanon will provide the same excellent results as any other type of test. i have used sustanon, suspension, and enanthate. and must say that every cycle i achieved excellent results regardless of the ester or ester combinations.

--stallion

[papas]

yes we are because all our other gear is cheep dirty low dose vet gear.. enanthate for example comes in 75mg per meal and its made for sheep lol so yea,u could say i am trying to make the most of my aussie sus lol

[sampson11]

yes we are because all our other gear is cheep dirty low dose vet gear.. enanthate for example comes in 75mg per meal and its made for sheep lol so yea,u could say i am trying to make the most of my aussie sus lol

Very true!

[rhino1]

and why is this a must read?

[allrise]

and why is this a must read?

maybe because retards like you and one8nine read shit and belive it because someone said it. very well spokin papas its about time someone said good about sus250 because all i tend to hear is negertive fedback about sus250 i think the real truth is no one really knows how to use it. i bet a few people are scatching there heads like larrys

[papas]

sus is a must lol

[stallion_1]

sus is a must lol

lets not get too crazy

[allrise]

lets not get too crazy

i think he has every intenstion to dont you think? i dont think anyone has ever writin it and come up with a cycle like that! sus is a must!

[rhino1]

maybe because retards like you and one8nine read shit and belive it because someone said it. very well spokin papas its about time someone said good about sus250 because all i tend to hear is negertive fedback about sus250 i think the real truth is no one really knows how to use it. i bet a few people are scatching there heads like larrys

umm k'

few questions for ya

so we should read and believe what you and papas say?

-arn't you the same as us because YOU "read shit and belive it because someone else said it" in regards to your obsession with sus?

and what is this anyway?

isn't that what a forum is? a place to express your experience and opinions?

and next...this makes us retards how???

arn't we entitled to our opinions???

so where does this leave you???

[rhino1]

i think he has every intenstion to dont you think? i dont think anyone has ever writin it and come up with a cycle like that! sus is a must!

well we are absolutely certain that sus does nothing for your brain "intenstion" <--is that english?

[allrise]

umm k'

few questions for ya

so we should read and believe what you and papas say?

-arn't you the same as us because YOU "read shit and belive it because someone else said it" in regards to your obsession with sus?

and what is this anyway?

isn't that what a forum is? a place to express your experience and opinions?

and next...this makes us retards how???

arn't we entitled to our opinions???

so where does this leave you???

because if someone big on this forum says so then you all faze off and agree iv seen it many times and you inparticular do it as well. this forum is just starting and its going to explode very soon. no offence to calling anyone a retard but i hate followers. "If it dident work for you, Gym's not for you"

[allrise]

well we are absolutely certain that sus does nothing for your brain "intenstion" <--is that english?

oh im sorry dident know i was taking a "inglish" class

[rhino1]

or is it ebonics?

[Bennet87]

aussies unite

[SmittyTheOX]

I dont think anyone (that I can recall) every said sust dosnt work, or isnt 'GOOD'.

My argument has alywasy been that from my own experience and what I have read/seen of others that why sust is 'GOOD', on a mg-mg, cycle-cycle basis Prop/Eth/Cyp only cycles are simply 'BETTER'.

There are ways to make sust more effective and less effective, personally papas I dont think your breakthrough idea is very good at all. I feel sust should be run EOD at the least.

And allrise, I couldnt give a fuk what the popular consensus is. This is simply what I have seen and experienced.

[rhino1]

i can hear the chant now....

"AUSSIES UNITE-SUS IS A MUST-AUSSIES UNITE-SUS IS A MUST-

MATE!

"YEAAAAAA....WE ARE FROM UNDER NEITH! UNDER NEITH UNDER NEITH UNDER NEITH UNDER NEITH"

[rhino1]

i dont think anyone (that i can recall) every said sust dosnt work, or isnt 'good'.

My argument has alywasy been that from my own experience and what i have read/seen of others that why sust is 'good', on a mg-mg, cycle-cycle basis prop/eth/cyp only cycles are simply 'better'.

There are ways to make sust more effective and less effective, personally papas i dont think your breakthrough idea is very good at all. I feel sust should be run eod at the least.

And allrise, i couldnt give a fuk what the popular consensus is. This is simply what i have seen and experienced.

check mate!

[Bennet87]

i can hear the chant now....

"AUSSIES UNITE-SUS IS A MUST-AUSSIES UNITE-SUS IS A MUST-

MATE!

"YEAAAAAA....WE ARE FROM UNDER NEITH! UNDER NEITH UNDER NEITH UNDER NEITH UNDER NEITH"

comedy to be passed down for generations to come

[kingwilliam]

It seems to me that based on the esters in Omnadren or Sustanon that you could inject twice a week;

The Propionate releases testosterone into the system over a couple of days and then next ester kicks in, and the next, and then next.............all timed so that one can get the immediate "kick in" of the propionate. A lot of people argue that you're wasting the prop if you don't inject at least EOD. Well if you were taking just prop, that would make sense. In this case as the prop drops off there is another ester releasing test into the system. Its all testosterone.

If you look at a chart of the half lives of the esters in Sust or Omn, it seems to me that one could even inject once a week. I personally am taking one 250mg ampule of Omnadren every 3 days.



I'm no expert, nor am I trying to argue with any of the experts on this board. I am just stating what makes sense to me.............

[papas]

who said i found a breakthrough idea smittytheox lol..and no it doesn't need to be run EOD get that out of your head..

in aus its hard to come by cyp or enanthate the ones we do have are like 75mg per meal which means u have to jab around 10 mls a week to get 750mg of test which is ridiculous lol..and top it off that low dose dirty gear is made for sheep..

so its fair to say for us Aussies using sus 250 with prop is a smart way to use the sus,but for you guys who have maybe more access to other test such as cyp and enanthate that are already dose at 250mg mite be a beter option..

[one8nine]

you guys have no comprehension of half lives or esters do whatever you want to yourself
throwing in some random prop is even worse than sust alone

[Bigmax]

i am sick and tired of everyone saying sus 250 is crap.. and u dont need to jab it every second day.. All you need is sum prop to go with..

example shoot 1 ml of sus on Monday and one on Friday..Now add 70mg of prop to the sus 250 shots every monday and friday so we can make up 100mg of prop per shot because the sus has 30mg of prop thats why we have to add another 70mg of prop..and simply take a 100mg of prop by it self on Wednesday

and there u have it the 100mg of prop mon wen fri.. which will give us a total of 500mg of sus 250 plus,240mg of prop per week for a total of 740mg of test per week..

Everyone????????????...till you come up with this post..I was the one going back and forth with my man 189 about it..lol..Then again dont agree with the adding of prop...no need for it at all..

[Bigmax]

you guys have no comprehension of half lives or esters do whatever you want to yourself
throwing in some random prop is even worse than sust alone

There you go again...lol

[one8nine]

you dont even know what an ester is

maybe because retards like you and one8nine read shit and belive it because someone said it. very well spokin papas its about time someone said good about sus250 because all i tend to hear is negertive fedback about sus250 i think the real truth is no one really knows how to use it. i bet a few people are scatching there heads like larrys

Testosterone Ester Report
One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, and Sustanon work. If you take a quick look around the Internet you will probably find countless articles that consider one form of a steroid far more effective than another. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate, or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Such arguments are in all practicality, baseless. In this report we'll take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid.

WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS
I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?

An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.

Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, therapy with an injectable anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.

Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS
There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.

There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the steroid weight. The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified steroid (testosterone enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider enanthate slightly MORE potent than cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more testosterone per injection than cypionate or enanthate.

IN CONCLUSION
While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.

ESTER PROFILES
Sustanon: The "king" of testosterone blends.
The four different testosterone esters in this product certainly look appealing to the consumer, there is no denying that. But for the athlete I think it is all just a matter of marketing (Hell, why buy one ester when you can get four?). In clinical situations I can see some strong uses for it. If you were undergoing testosterone replacement therapy for example, you would probably find Sustanon a much more comfortable option than testosterone enanthate. You would need to visit the doctor less frequently for an injection, and blood levels should be more steadily maintained between treatments. But for the bodybuilder who is injecting 4 ampules of Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $xx per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.

Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2.
Also referred to as Acetic Acid; Ethylic acid; Vinegar acid; vinegar; Methanecarboxylic acid. Acetate esters delay the release of a steroid for only a couple of days. Contrary to what you may have read, acetate esters do not increase the tendency for fat removal. Again, there is no known mechanism for it to do so. This ester is used on oral primobolan tablets (metenolone acetate), Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) implant pellets, and occasionally testosterone.

Propionate: Chemical Structure C3H6O2.
Also referred to as Carboxyethane; hydroacrylic acid; Methylacetic acid; Ethylformic acid; Ethanecarboxylic acid; metacetonic acid; pseudoacetic acid; Propionic Acid. Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly. Testosterone propionate and methandriol dipropionate (two separate propionate esters attached to the parent steroid methandriol) are popular items.

Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2.
Also referred to as Propionic Acid Phenyl Ester. Phenylpropionate will extend the release of active steroid a few days longer than propionate. To keep blood levels even, injections are given at least twice weekly. Durabolin is the drug most commonly seen with a phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylpropionate), although it is also used with testosterone in Sustanon and Omnadren.

Isocarpoate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Isocaproic Acid; isohexanoate; 4-methylvaleric acid. Isocaproate begins to near enanthate in terms of release. The duration is still shorter, with a notable hormone level being sustained for approximately one week. This ester is used with testosterone in the blended products Sustanon and Omnadren.

Caproate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Hexanoic acid; hexanoate; n-Caproic Acid; n-Hexoic acid; butylacetic acid; pentiformic acid; pentylformic acid; n-hexylic acid; 1-pentanecarboxylic acid; hexoic acid; 1-hexanoic acid; Hexylic acid; Caproic acid. This ester is identical to isocarpoate in terms of atom count and weight, but is laid out slightly different (Isocaproate has a split configuration, difficult to explain here but easy to see on paper). Release duration would be very similar to isocaproate (levels sustained for approximately one weak), perhaps coming slightly closer to enanthate due to its straight chain. Caproate is the slowest releasing ester used in Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this compound.

Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2.
Also referred to as heptanoic acid; enanthic acid; enanthylic acid; heptylic acid; heptoic acid; Oenanthylic acid; Oenanthic acid. Enanthate is one of the most prominent esters used in steroid manufacture (most commonly seen with testosterone but is also used in other compounds like Primobolan Depot). Enanthate will release a steady (yet fluctuating as all esters are) level of hormone for approximately 10-14 days. Although in medicine enanthate compounds are often injected on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, athletes will inject at least weekly to help maintain a uniform blood level.

Cypionate: Chemical Structure C8H14O2.
Also referred to as Cyclopentylpropionic acid, cyclopentylpropionate. Cypionate is a very popular ester here in the U.S., although it is scarcely found outside this region. Its release duration is almost identical to enanthate (10-14 days), and the two are likewise thought to be interchangeable in U.S. medicine. Althletes commonly hold the belief than cypionate is more powerful than enanthate, although realistically there is little difference between the two. The enanthate ester is in fact slightly smaller than cypionate, and it therefore releases a small (perhaps a few milligrams) amount of steroid more in comparison.

Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2.
Also referred to as decanoic acid; capric acid; caprinic acid; decylic acid, Nonanecarboxylic acid. The Decanoate ester is most commonly used with the hormone nandrolone (as in Deca-Durabolin) and is found in virtually all corners of the world. Testosterone decanoate is also the longest acting constituent in Sustanon, greatly extending its release duration. The release time with Decanoate compounds is listed to be as long as one month, although most recently we are finding that levels seem to drop significantly after two weeks. To keep blood levels more uniform, athletes (as they have always known to do) will follow a weekly injection schedule.

Undecylenate: Chemical Structure C11H20O2.
Also referred to as Undecylenic acid; Hendecenoic acid; Undecenoic acid. This ester is very similar to decanoate, containing only one carbon atom more. Its release duration is likewise very similar (approximately 2-3 weeks), perhaps extending a day or so past that seen with decanoate. Undecylenate seems to be exclusive to the veterinary preparation Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate), although there is no reason it would not work well in human-use preparations (Equipoise certainly works fine for athletes). Again, weekly injections are most common.

Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2.
Also referred to as Undecanoic Acid; 1-Decanecarboxylic acid; Hendecanoic acid; Undecylic acid. Undecanoate is not a commonly found ester, and only appears to be used in the nandrolone preparation Dynabolan, and oral testosterone undecanoate (Andriol). Since this ester is chemically very similar to undecylenate (it is only 2 hydrogen atoms larger), it has a similar release duration (approximately 2-3 weeks). Although this ester is used in the oral preparation Andriol, there is no reason to believe it carries any properties unique of other esters. Andriol in fact works very poorly at delivering testosterone, bolstering the idea that oral administration is not the idea use of esterified androgens.

Laurate: Chemical structure C12H24O2.
Also referred to as Dodecanoic acid, laurostearic acid, duodecyclic acid, 1-undecanecarboxylic acid, and dodecoic acid. Laurate is the longest releasing ester used in commercial steroid production, although longer acting esters do exist. Its release duration would be closer to one month than the other esters listed above, although realistically we are probably to expect a notable drop in hormone level after the third week. Laurate is exclusively found in the veterinary nandrolone preparation Laurabolin, perhaps seen as slightly advantageous over a decanoate ester due to a less frequent injection schedule. Again athletes will most commonly inject this drug weekly, no doubt in part due to its low strength (25mg/ml or 50mg/ml).

[one8nine]

There you go again...lol

haha me being in this thread is like a nun walking into a whore house

[Bigmax]

lol...for sure!!!

[one8nine]

I dont think anyone (that I can recall) every said sust dosnt work, or isnt 'GOOD'.

My argument has alywasy been that from my own experience and what I have read/seen of others that why sust is 'GOOD', on a mg-mg, cycle-cycle basis Prop/Eth/Cyp only cycles are simply 'BETTER'.

There are ways to make sust more effective and less effective, personally papas I dont think your breakthrough idea is very good at all. I feel sust should be run EOD at the least.

And allrise, I couldnt give a fuk what the popular consensus is. This is simply what I have seen and experienced.

stellar post

[juicyjlikes269]

i love sus 250 and i shoot it eod it really is that bad or either my ass is just use to all the pins. i get better results with it and alot more power

[kingwilliam]

one8nine that is a great article. I have read it before. I still feel that Sust or Omnadren every 3 days is fine.

Go ahead and roast me, I don't care

[VWbug66]

i shoot sust mon wed fri..working great..no sides, and no problems. It does not need to be shot eod.

[Bullyson]

For some I would imagine it does need to be inj eod. Everyone reacts differently to different compounds. I was pinning two days a week with the sust and I loved it. My next rodeo will be cyp, dbol and tren though. I want to explore my options a little.

[SmittyTheOX]

so its fair to say for us Aussies using sus 250 with prop is a smart way to use the sus,but for you guys who have maybe more access to other test such as cyp and enanthate that are already dose at 250mg mite be a beter option..

Dont make generalisations about 'us' aussies unless your sure we all agree mate Just because you personally have dramas getting eth/cyp/prop/whatever, that dosnt mean the rest of us do. Thats not an attack btw, just putting you back in your place

Personally, if it came down to a preference Id take prop over any other test.

OX

[MercyDog]

My biggest problem with sust is paying over $1,000 for my 14 week cycles, that doesn't include any PCT

[mkrulic]

i am sick and tired of everyone saying sus 250 is crap.. and u dont need to jab it every second day.. All you need is sum prop to go with..

example shoot 1 ml of sus on Monday and one on Friday..Now add 70mg of prop to the sus 250 shots every monday and friday so we can make up 100mg of prop per shot because the sus has 30mg of prop thats why we have to add another 70mg of prop..and simply take a 100mg of prop by it self on Wednesday

and there u have it the 100mg of prop mon wen fri.. which will give us a total of 500mg of sus 250 plus,240mg of prop per week for a total of 740mg of test per week..

its not linear like this.

[VWbug66]

well if u paid that much I would get another source...stat!

[stallion_1]

aussies unite

LOL we'll just drop an atomic bomb

[nah man]

i actully have sus 250 im planning to run it with hgh...would you guys recomend every other day doseing or twice a week is fine?