a cycle question

**alireza1980** · 09-06-2008, 01:06 PM

hi
i am about to start this cycle, deca 2ml once a week for 12 weeks,1ml prolongatum twice a week for the first 6 weeks and 1ml enanthate 250 twice a week for the second 6 weeks, i understand that this are bulking substances i want to add primobol for cutting too but is that not too much steroids mixed together?

thx for any advice

**Mulciber** · 09-06-2008, 01:12 PM

guess ill be the one to ask..

age/stats/cycle history/years training ect....

couple things tho.. why the switch from cyp to enanthate mid cycle?
also, id run enanthate 1 week past the deca .. pct 2 weeks after the test.
dont really think your ready tho..guess ill see here shortly..

**redz** · 09-06-2008, 01:12 PM

1ml prolongatum tells us nothing what is the strenght per ml? also the deca strength per ml? You dont sound like you are ready to use steroids at all. What is your proposed pct?

**alireza1980** · 09-06-2008, 01:22 PM

hi i am 28 its my 5 cycle previouse cycles were deca , sus and winny for 8 weeks.
about 2 weeks ago stopped hgh which i took for 3 month cant get them anymore thats why i stopped.
the change is because thats what i have been told to do from a bodybuilder he said its better so that the body dont get use to the substance.
what is pct.
thx

**alireza1980** · 09-06-2008, 01:36 PM

my pct is novadex half a tab ed after 2 weeks start .

**JiGGaMaN** · 09-06-2008, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by redz

1ml prolongatum tells us nothing what is the strenght per ml? also the deca strength per ml? You dont sound like you are ready to use steroids at all. What is your proposed pct?

If you know your juices it does. It's 250mg per 2ml test c if i recall correclty. And based on the names hes giving hes located somewhere in europe or middle east. I can go further and assume hes using 100mg/ml 2ml deca as well.

Lets go even farther, based on his name im guessing hes from Iran. Lets see if i get all of that correct!

**alireza1980** · 09-06-2008, 02:14 PM

you got it all right mate what about the cycle i found out that nolvadex is no good to take with deca is that right?

**lcstriker07** · 09-06-2008, 02:14 PM

based on his name I'm guessing he's 28! How'd I do!?

**Mulciber** · 09-06-2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by alireza1980

you got it all right mate what about the cycle i found out that nolvadex is no good to take with deca is that right?

altho i keep caber on hand just in case im really not concerned all that much about progesterone related gyno.
progsterone is merely a part of a coordinated effort of hormones that must be present in order for gyno to occur. Prolactin cannot be simply elevated and here comes gyno. Estrogen must be present, which is the pathway through which most documented gyno occurs.

some good info from nandi,jguns and bigcat

"Prolactin, progesterone, GH, Estrogen, and IGF-1 are all stimulatory and act in and integrated fashion to initiate the sequence of events that is breast growth."

here the relationship between gynecomastia and progesterone is mentioned.

"What is being said is basically that progesterone can only cause or aggravate gyno in the presence of circulating estrogen."

"Plasma progesterone was raised in 36 of 50 (72%) men with liver disease compared with 20 healthy male control subjects. Plasma progesterone was significantly higher in men with non-alcoholic cirrhosis with gynaecomastia than those without, but no similar relationship was found in men with alcoholic fatty change and alcoholic cirrhosis. Hyperprolactinaemia was found in 14% of men with liver disease but levels were unrelated to the presence of gynaecomastia.. Increased circulating levels of progesterone and prolactin alone do not explain the development of gynaecomastia in patients with liver disease, but progesterone may be an additional factor acting in association with the known disturbances of other sex steroids . (1)

Progesterone enhances estrogen's stimulation of mammary gland growth, and our findings suggest that progesterone may play a role in the gynecomastia that occurs in men with hyperthyroidism. (2)

progesterone/progestins themselves are not capable of causing gyno (study 1), but enhance the action of estrogen, which is typically elevated in hyperthyroidism (study 2).

"True gynecomastia is a condition in which there is an enlargement of the male breast due to an increase in ductal tissue and periductal stroma.[13]"

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle....2/7002/7001/-1

Estrogen receptor knockout mice manifest significantly impaired ductal development, implying that estrogen is key to ductal development, and by definition (see phrase in quotes above) gynecomastia.

(1) Gut. 1982 Apr;23(4):276-9.

Progesterone, prolactin, and gynaecomastia in men with liver disease.

Farthing MJ, Green JR, Edwards CR, Dawson AM.

(2) J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2.

High serum progesterone in hyperthyroid men with Graves' disease.

Nomura K, Suzuki H, Saji M, Horiba N, Ujihara M, Tsushima T, Demura H, Shizume K.

**Mulciber** · 09-06-2008, 02:49 PM

so i guess what im saying is yes nolvadex will be of benefit even if using deca because circulating estrogen must be present for progesterone to be a factor..
i take b6 to help keep prolactin levels in check.. if that dont work , well thats why i keep the dostinex on hand.

**JiGGaMaN** · 09-06-2008, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by alireza1980

you got it all right mate what about the cycle i found out that nolvadex is no good to take with deca is that right?

I am a genius!

You have to have it planned out a bit better than that. You should keep your test dosage at a constant. Optimally, it should look something like this:
1-14 test e 500mg/week
1-12 deca 300-400mg/week
16-19 arimidex 1mg/every day nolvadex 20mg every day