A brief guide to everything I know : discussion thread

**one8nine** · 07-17-2008, 05:20 PM

nothin? =(

PT · 07-17-2008, 05:25 PM

that was alot of work bro copying and pasting from so many threads and even though i onlt read half of it so far it looks really good. it would actually make a nice sticky for newbies to read and learn from

credit should have been given to the peoples threads you took the info from.

**one8nine** · 07-17-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by PT

that was alot of work bro copying and pasting from so many threads and even though i onlt read half of it so far it looks really good. it would actually make a nice sticky for newbies to read and learn from

credit should have been given to the peoples threads you took the info from.

damn thanks i take that as a huge compliment. it looks good in word im going to clean it up though so it is an easier read

**WARMachine** · 07-17-2008, 05:42 PM

AWESOME READ!!!... like PT said, it would make a great sticky!

nice work!

**one8nine** · 07-17-2008, 05:53 PM

thanks a lot i really want to make for 100% sure everything is 110% correct

**dbl d** · 07-17-2008, 11:49 PM

That answers a lot of questions i was wondering about. thanks for putting in the work and effort in that Excellent thread

**mv540** · 07-18-2008, 12:00 AM

thats a awesome read man and definetly needs to be stickied.

**Dog-Slime** · 07-18-2008, 12:28 AM

Only read Anabolics: The language. Suscribing to read the rest tomorrow. Looks good so far. Im gonna point out a little thing that I noticed (wouldn't of said anything but you said you wanted it to be 110%)

"SERM – One can basically think of these as empty placeholders, they look close enough to estrogen that they fill the spots in the brain that estrogen want to park, so your body will not be able to get signal from the estrogen, effectively giving you time to rid your body of these nasty hormones before they have any devastating effects. Ex: Nolvadex"

I think this needs to be worded different. They work by attaching in breast tissue and preventing estrogen from binding there. You still have high estrogen it just can't attach to the receptors in the breast.

**Emilio_Rebenga** · 07-18-2008, 12:30 AM

looks good and very informative...now i am not a steroid guru or a know it all, but i do disagree on one thing

19nor it states that taking nolva will reduce the sides...actually if you get gyno from it taking nolva will inhance it

thats my 2 cents

**Emilio_Rebenga** · 07-18-2008, 12:32 AM

it also reads that winstrol is better for FAT LOSS than Masteron

winstrol hardens your muscles..it does not burn fat off of you

**Ernst** · 07-18-2008, 01:01 AM

I thought it was a very good read. Too short to be terribly thorough, it's nevertheless an excellent sort of "intro to anabolics". I think a lot of people would benefit from reading it. Good job!

**Litarvan** · 07-18-2008, 01:34 AM

Dude if your going to write a book a least publish it and make some $$$ off of it!

You.. selfless asshole!

Jk great post... REALLY helps a newb like me put it all together and have much better understanding of all the seemingly mumbo jumbo jargon thats makes up these forums.

Thanks!

**Dog-Slime** · 07-18-2008, 09:51 AM

Just read anabolics the education and found a few things that bothered me:

19nor-testosterone - Deca (Nandrolone ) and Finaplix (Trenbolone )
19nors are not naturally occurring and were completely developed by humans. Due to how much the 19nors stimulate the progesterone receptors, thereby making the user more sensitive the estrogenic side effects, the total dosages of 19nors should be equal to or less than those of Testosterone. Because of the means by which the 19nors increase estrogenic side effects, an AI would not be much of a fix for the problem. AI’s should help some but because the issue is NOT cause by any aromatize, the effects would be minimal. A better method to solve the problem would be a combination of Nolvadex and Cabergoline.
Trenbolone and Nandrolone should not be at their peaks during the same time period, as they do not mix well. Fortunately, Tren is normally available in short esters, and Deca is normally available in longer esters, if both are started at the same time the Tren can be enjoyed while waiting for the Deca to reach its full peak, at which point the Tren should be cut.19nors quickly turn suppression into shut down. In general, it can be said the worse estrogenic side effects a drug as the more quickly it will shut the natural production of Testosterone down.

The main differences between Tren and Deca are intensity and ester length (both Deca and Tren are available in long and short esters, but most commonly you will find Tren in short and Deca in long). Tren has a stronger influence on anger issues, stronger AR binding affinity, and more frequent injection requirements. In short, Deca is for those who don’t want frequent injections, and can’t deal with anger issues. Also, Deca is better for the joints partially because it causes more edema.

As Emilio already pointed out this is wrong. You do not want to use nolva while using 19-nors. Letro works good here as I believe it has effects on progesterone levels somehow? But a combo of an AI and caber is optimal. Also, you can run higher levels of nors than testosterone. In fact many respected bro's much prefer this way as you have less estrogen in you. All you need to do is an hrt dose of test.

The part about the main difference between tren and deca should be reworded too. When you say the main difference is long ester and short ester tren (E) can come in long and deca (NPP) comes in short. So thats not much a difference at all. Also, instead of saying "anger issues" I would say that tren is HIGHLY androgenic where as deca is very low on the androgenic scale. That is the main difference (that and the bloat).

Auxiliary drugs – An auxiliary drug is one, which isn’t directly anabolic but can greatly improve a cycle mostly by decreasing negative side effects from other drugs. For example Clenbuterol and Letro will help fight muscle loss, so more muscle gained overall. When a man grows from 200 pounds to 210 pounds he has gain 10 net pounds. In the background what you don’t realize is that man really gained about 30 pounds, and lost 20 due to muscle replacement and catabolics present. Let’s also assume that this man’s body is only capable of producing 30 new pounds in a two-month period, no matter how much is eaten or how many anabolics are utilized. Well, if that same man added Clenbuterol and Letro to his cycle, he would suppress cortisol and eliminate estrogen, so maybe that man would only lose 10 pounds instead of the original 20. Now that man net went from 200 to 220 instead of 200 to 210. Also, coming off of the cycle would be much easier with cortisol and estrogen levels already in the ground. With cortisol down, storing fat is harder, and post cycle muscle breakdown will dramatically decrease. With Estrogen already dramatically low, the body will increase Testosterone production more rapidly.

To my knowledge adding clen and letro to a cycle has never increased gains and most often would decrease them. Also, I dont think clen reduces cortisol but if it does I would like to be pointed in the direction of such a study.

**Dog-Slime** · 07-18-2008, 10:06 AM

Just read Anabolics the education.

I dont like how this a basically a newbies guide but you make it sound like a good cycle must have test + 19-nor + dht. That is a combo that works damn good but is only for advanced users, mainly ones that have previous experience with such compounds.

Auxiliaries – This is not a very complicated area, when starting with 500mg of Testosterone per week, start with 250mcg of Letro per day and move up if needed. The same ratio goes for 19nors, 500mg of any 19nor warrants 250mcg of Caber per day. Some people suggest dosages like 1mg e4d of Letro or Caber just because they can be taken like that. It is my personal belief that the previously mentioned theory is ridiculous because both compounds are oral and there is no real reason not to take lower doses more frequently to help keep blood levels more stable, and also to make dosage adjustment much easier. Clenbuterol is also a great auxiliary, but there is no real rule for it; check suggested dosages and adjust to your personal preference and tolerance. The way Clenbuterol is used is a rapid increase from twenty mcg to 100mcg in a week and quickly back down to 20mcg by the end of the next week, and then going two weeks without it. The shock of unstable hormone levels is what helps it do its job as a strong thermogenic. This method is strange because with almost other auxiliaries and AAS, it is best to keep blood levels stable. Clenbuterol is a serious drug that can cause harm if used incorrectly.

250mcg Caber per day? I run 250mcg caber e3.5 days and it works damn good.

Also, I have never heard of clen needing to be run in such fashion, and its not a hormone. I run a steady dose of clen while taking 25mgs benadryl at night. I never increase my dose and run it for up to 6 weeks at a time without the loss of benefits.

**Dog-Slime** · 07-18-2008, 10:08 AM

Ok Im done picking this thing apart. Hope you don't take offence to my suggestions/corrections. Overall I think you did a great job and once a few corrections are made I think this should be a sticky for the noobs.

**smokeyd** · 07-18-2008, 10:12 AM

great job bro!!! your better person than me cause i am not writing all that shit down lol unless its for money

**pyrothehitman** · 07-18-2008, 10:12 AM

great read bump that

**pitbullxx** · 07-18-2008, 10:32 AM

great post bro good read

**mackerz** · 07-18-2008, 10:39 AM

nice one...very good read

**tripmachine** · 07-18-2008, 10:51 AM

thanks for the post! I read it and learned a few things.... :]

**one8nine** · 07-18-2008, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dog-Slime

Only read Anabolics: The language. Suscribing to read the rest tomorrow. Looks good so far. Im gonna point out a little thing that I noticed (wouldn't of said anything but you said you wanted it to be 110%)

"SERM – One can basically think of these as empty placeholders, they look close enough to estrogen that they fill the spots in the brain that estrogen want to park, so your body will not be able to get signal from the estrogen, effectively giving you time to rid your body of these nasty hormones before they have any devastating effects. Ex: Nolvadex"

I think this needs to be worded different. They work by attaching in breast tissue and preventing estrogen from binding there. You still have high estrogen it just can't attach to the receptors in the breast.

that is really good info i always thought it was in the brain i did not know it was breast tissue

**one8nine** · 07-18-2008, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Emilio_Rebenga

it also reads that winstrol is better for FAT LOSS than Masteron

winstrol hardens your muscles..it does not burn fat off of you

it helps by binding to the ar
i put that in the top about steroids dont burn fat

as for the nolva and 19nors yeah i dont know why i wrote that i know nolva is no go

**one8nine** · 07-18-2008, 11:48 AM

thanks a lot everybody i fixed some stuff up and hit finish
any other suggestions?

im going to look for that clen /cortosol study

**one8nine** · 07-18-2008, 11:58 AM

http://www.rsc.org/ej/AN/1998/a805360j.pdf

wow i dont know how i got those mixed up. this study says clen increases cortisol?? im going to keep looking i dont know why im thinking clen decreases cortisol

**one8nine** · 07-18-2008, 12:05 PM

http://www.actavetscand.com/content/49/1/36

http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/full/82/12/3500

these say it is increased too
i dont know how i got mixed up on that

**peachfuzz** · 07-18-2008, 12:16 PM

nice post. im sure you spent some time on it. if i wasnt at work id paraphrase these for you but i think gauge referring to needles and aspirating would make a good addition to the list. maybe UG as well. i dunno just some suggestions that thing would end up a book in no time tho.

**one8nine** · 07-18-2008, 12:44 PM

wwoooooo buddies - more holes in it than i realized but were gettin this baby patched up

**Dog-Slime** · 07-18-2008, 01:03 PM

Looking much better now. Hopefully others will chime in as well if they notice anything that needs tweaking. Then sticky time (or you could just bump it once a week if they dont sticky it). Maybe it will keep a few noobs questions at bay.

**Nitro29** · 07-18-2008, 02:16 PM

Very, very nice man...Thanks

**G4R** · 07-18-2008, 02:26 PM

GREAT THREAD. I now have it bookmarked so I can point some newbs to it for a good quick Roid crash course.

**JiGGaMaN** · 07-18-2008, 02:40 PM

I think by esteroil you mean estradiol. Ill continue reading through it and see what i can find.

**JiGGaMaN** · 07-18-2008, 02:51 PM

hmmm or maybe i should start my own intermediate level basics...

**JiGGaMaN** · 07-18-2008, 02:59 PM

Androgen Receptor (AR): is activated by binding of either of the androgenic hormones testosterone or dihydrotestosterone. The androgen receptor is most closely related to the progesterone receptor, and progestins in higher dosages can block the androgen receptor.
agonist: a substance that binds to a specific receptor and triggers a response in the cell.
antagonist:similar to an agonist, but does not provoke a biological response itself upon binding to a receptor, but blocks or dampens agonist-mediated responses.
Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis (HPTA): The Hypothalamus, Pituitary, and Testicles are the main sources of endogenous testosterone production.

Gotta go out for dinner, ill keep em coming when i get back.

**JiGGaMaN** · 07-18-2008, 03:04 PM

Also, one more before i go: for aspiration, the tiny bubble is a vacuum being created in the syringe because there is nothing to aspirate . Too big of a bubble and you will bruise where you are injecting, take it easy.

**JiGGaMaN** · 07-18-2008, 04:40 PM

Difference between a suspension and a solution: With a suspension, the active hormone needs to be shaken, and thus suspended, but will eventually settle over time. A solution the hormone is dissolved into the carrier and will not settle.

**Big** · 07-18-2008, 06:20 PM

Informative post and replies. Do I hear sticky? Any opposed? Done!

**jackjackson** · 07-18-2008, 09:00 PM

Awesome post, very very useful.
Even for me, prepping for first cycle and I find this very very very useful.
Thanks also.

**T_Own** · 07-18-2008, 11:08 PM

very good read. i don't really know enough to offer any major suggestions. i would agree that hpta is a pretty important area and should be touched on a little more directly maybe. maybe a little more on sides? or a definition of gyno, i don't think that was mentioned at all

but good read. hopefully people will take the time to read it all and save a few simple questions

**Stang786** · 07-19-2008, 08:42 AM

Thanks for the info. Though I'm not a newbie to this, it is always a good thing to have your "guidelines" and always reference them to ground you if you get a bit too creative and experimentative.