No Tren on first cycle?

**fit4ever180** · 09-13-2008, 03:26 PM

I've been reading several posts saying that tren should not be used on a first cycle. I currently am running 450mg cypionate /enanthate and have been for 2 weeks. I was planning on adding in tri-trenabol 150 next week for 10 weeks and then deca (250mg/w) for 10 weeks and proviron (throughout rest of cycle and PCT) two weeks after that. Also Winny starting in week 6. Should I stick with my current plan or is this too much for a first cycle? Is tren in particular an issue? Thanks for the help!

My stats:
Age 23
Height 5'11''
Weight 181
BF% 8%
Training for 4 years

**inky-e** · 09-13-2008, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by fit4ever180

I been reading several posts saying that tren should not be used on a first cycle. I currently am running 450mg cypionate /enanthate and have been for 2 weeks. I was planning on adding in tri-trenabol 150 next week and then deca (250mg/w) and proviron two weeks after that. Also Winny starting in week 6. Should I stick with my current plan or is this too much for a first cycle?

My stats:
Age 23
Height 5'11''
Weight 181
BF% 8%
Training for 4 years

Bro..nothing is set in stone...we give suggesations and you do what you want with them...I think all those compounds are a bit much...taking into consideration your stats....

**fit4ever180** · 09-13-2008, 03:33 PM

I hear ya and I'm open to your suggestions and critcism. That's why I'm asking. I plan on doing at least one more cycle in the future, so if I don't use everything I've got, I can always use it in the future. I realize that everyone's body is different and reacts differently, but what would you drop/keep and is there anything else you think might work better?

**Amorphic** · 09-13-2008, 03:40 PM

the main reason everyone says not to run tren on a first cycle is that most users dont know how they will respond to a baseline steroid such as test. when you know how it affects your hpta, how your recovery is and if you're gyno prone or not you can give tren a run

**inky-e** · 09-13-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by fit4ever180;4193***

I hear ya and I'm open to your suggestions and critcism. That's why I'm asking. I plan on doing at least one more cycle in the future, so if I don't use everything I've got, I can always use it in the future. I realize that everyone's body is different and reacts differently, but what would you drop/keep and is there anything else you think might work better?

I would just hit the cip for 10-12 weeks...you're already on your 2 nd week...if you can get some d-bol..that would be good for the next 3 weeks at 50 mg's a day..trust me it makes a difference.....depending on diet and training you could realistically put on 20 lbs. Then next time you use gear you can incorporate the deca , I'd run that deca at 500mg's a week, for 12 weeks...I did this...test cip at 750 mg's a week and deca at 500 mg's a week...my cycle lasted 18 weeks cause I didn't hit the deca till 4 weeks into the cip...and then you run the test 2 weeks past the last deca shot. I gained 22 lbs..and it was pretty much all muscle...so...there it is.

**Freakish** · 09-13-2008, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Amorphic

the main reason everyone says not to run tren on a first cycle is that most users dont know how they will respond to a baseline steroid such as test. when you know how it affects your hpta, how your recovery is and if you're gyno prone or not you can give tren a run

^^
Exactly!another thing bro,im not sure if im readin it correctly,but u wanna run tren together with deca ?not really a good idea,and then add winstrol ?what are your goals with this cycle?

**Brock1234** · 09-13-2008, 03:55 PM

Not to mention there are different protocolols required to stop/reverse Gyno depending on the compound causing it.

1 compound is a must for a first cycle. Just finish your test.

**fit4ever180** · 09-13-2008, 04:26 PM

Thanks for all the replies! My goal is to add as much quality muscle as I can with minimal side effects. As for the concern about running tren and deca together, that's why I kept the doses lower. Also, I've got Nolva, Clomid, and HCG for PCT, so I believe I would be covered if gyno was to become a problem. The only reason I didn't run D-bol from the beginning was because it has such fast, pronounced effects and I'm hoping to make the gains accumulate more slowly so they're less noticable to family members, but if that's what it will take to make the gains I'll gladly switch up my cycle to incorporate something else. Anyone else have an opinion on the matter? Thanks again to all of you!

Here is what my current daily intake has been give or take a couple hundred calories. I will probably add in another meal pretty soon too because I'm starting to get hungry between meals again. The overall carb, protein, and fat ratios stay the same each day regardless of calories.

Meal 1

2 whole eggs- 152 calories, 12g protein, 10g fat
3 servings Egg White Substitute- 90 calories, 18g protein
270g Broccoli- 93 calories, 9g protein, 18g carbs
80g (1 cup) Oatmeal- 300 calories, 10g protein, 54g carbs, 6g fat

Total- 637 calories, 49g protein, 72g carbs, 16g fat

Meal 2

2 cups Plain Fat Free Yogurt- 240 calories, 24g protein, 36g carbs
32g Power Butter- 182 calories, 12g protein, 6g carbs, 9.5g fat
1 banana- 105 calories, 27g carbs
3/4 scoop protein powder- 75 calories, 15g protein, 3g carbs, 1g fat

Total- 602 calories, 51g protein, 72g carbs, 10.5g fat

Meal 3

6 oz. Cajun Turkey- 150 calories, 36g protein, 3g carbs, 1.5g fat
Low Carb Tortilla- 70 calories, 7g protein, 17g carbs, 1.5g fat
1/2 serving Blue Cheese Dressing- 80 calories, 1g carb, 9g fat
200g Yam- 232 calories, 54g carbs
68g Ground Turkey- 55 calories, 13g protein, .75g fat

Total- 587 calories, 55g protein, 75g carbs, 12.75g fat

Meal 4 (1 hour Before Workout)

28g Milled Flax Seed- 140 calories, 10g protein, 10g carbs, 14g fat
200g Yam- 232 calories, 54g carbs
198g Ground Turkey- 165 calories, 39g protein, 1.5g fat

Total- 537 calories, 49g protein, 64g carbs, 15.5 fat

Meal 5 (Immediately Post-Workout)

Creatine- 310 calories, 75g carbs (dextrose)
2 1/2 scoops protein powder mix (whey, soy, casein)- 275 calories, 50g protein, 9g carbs, 4g fat

Total- 585 calories, 50g protein, 84g carbs, 4g fat

Meal 6 (45-60 min. after Post-Workout)

4 oz. Beef Jerky- 320 calories, 44g protein, 28g carbs, 2g fat
1 cup White Rice- 200 calories, 41g carbs, 1 g fat

Total- 520 calories, 44g protein, 69g carbs, 3g fat

Meal 7 (Before Bed)

1 1/2 cup(339g) Fat Free Cottage Cheese- 240 calories, 39g protein, 15g carbs
1 scoop 24 Hour Protein Powder- 150 calories, 20g protein, 3g carbs, 5g fat

Total- 390 calories, 59g protein, 18g carbs, 5g fat

Daily Total- 3,908 calories, 357g protein, 454g carbs, 66.75g fatI'll post up what a day of my current diet has been consisiting of.

**fit4ever180** · 09-14-2008, 11:01 AM

Well, I'm going to take your advice and continue with only the test and carry it out for 12 weeks. I'll drop the tren and deca and save them for future cycles. As far PCT goes for a straight test cycle, I was thinking something like:

HCG at 500i.u. ed weeks 9-12
nolva - 20mg ed weeks 14-20
clomid- 100mg/ed weeks 13-14, 50mg/ed weeks 15-16

Is this a solid plan for PCT? Overkill or not enough?

Thanks

**WARMachine** · 09-14-2008, 02:41 PM

I think you should do

week 13-14
Clomid @50mg ED
week 15-16
Clomid @25mg ED

It seems fine from there on...

How long are you running the Test C?

Remember to wait 2 weeks before starting PCT.

btw, nice diet, i personally would change a few things, but overall, very good!

**fit4ever180** · 09-14-2008, 05:11 PM

I've got 8ml of 200mg/ml cy left and I plan on using 500mg each week until it's gone, so i'd be done with it after another 3 weeks, then switch over to enanthate for the last 7 weeks of the cycle.

I know that it takes roughly 18 days for the test e to metabolize, so I planned on starting PCT with the nolva and clomid 18 days after my last injection. I would start HCG so that my last dose would be on the 18th day after my last test injection right or would I want to start 3 weeks before the last injection and have my last test and HCG injection on the same day?

Thanks for the diet compliment. What would you change about it?

Thanks for the reply also!

**fit4ever180** · 09-14-2008, 09:49 PM

bump

**Ashop** · 09-14-2008, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by inky-e

Bro..nothing is set in stone...we give suggesations and you do what you want with them...I think all those compounds are a bit much...taking into consideration your stats....

well said bro.

**fit4ever180** · 09-15-2008, 11:27 AM

bump

**bbuilder** · 09-15-2008, 12:20 PM

You are too young to be doing anything on your first cycle except FOODADROL and WORKOUTADROL.

Read the forums.

When you SHOULDN'T use AAS imho....

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by fit4ever180

I've got 8ml of 200mg/ml cy left and I plan on using 500mg each week until it's gone, so i'd be done with it after another 3 weeks, then switch over to enanthate for the last 7 weeks of the cycle.
(How much E do you have? There is no point taking Cyp for 3 weeks.)

I know that it takes roughly 18 days for the test e to metabolize, so I planned on starting PCT with the nolva and clomid 18 days after my last injection. I would start HCG so that my last dose would be on the 18th day after my last test injection right or would I want to start 3 weeks before the last injection and have my last test and HCG injection on the same day?
(HCG protocal varies from person to person, i like to do HCG the last 2weeks of the cycle and first two weeks of PCT. Thats just me.)

Thanks for the diet compliment. What would you change about it?

Thanks for the reply also!

Bump for ya pal.

**fit4ever180** · 09-15-2008, 01:19 PM

I've got enough E for another 4 weeks at 500mg/w plus the 3 weeks of Cy. More than enough E should be in my hands within 2 weeks also. Since I started 2 weeks ago, I've been running 200mg/w of Cy and 250mg/w of E togther. Would have been running just E but the distributor ****ed up. Since the esters are so similar and have roughly the same release and metabolizing times, I was under the impression they could be used interchangably?

I think I've got a pretty good handle the PCT too.

Thanks for the help!

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 01:22 PM

Well you shouldnt have started a cycle without enough gear.

But it seems like you do have a good handle, as long as the extra Test comes through.

Keep us posted bro!

**fit4ever180** · 09-15-2008, 01:28 PM

Agreed... I have enough for 10 weeks of test total, but my original planned cycle was way overkill for a first cycle, so I had to change it up. I'd like a few more ml so I can extend the cycle a couple more weeks, but I'll keep you posted. So far, it's going great! Gained about 6 lbs. in less than 2 weeks and almost no BF% increase. Feeling great and eating a ton!

Thanks again for the help!