my first real cycle

[user12345654321]

Hello, thanks for reading this and i look forward to responces.

age 22
5.8"
82kg
about 16% bf

i've been traing for about 5 years and i did a stupid oral only cycle of OT about 2 years ago(8 weeks 50mg ED), i gained about 1/2 stone of good muscle. i did pct and recovered well, i've been training natural since then and have continued gaining since then. i want to do a proper cycle so heres what i'm thinking.

week 1-12 500mg Test E (250mg shot twice a week)
week 1-17 25mg proviron ED
week 15-20 20mg nolvadex ED
week 15-17 50mg clomid ED

week 4-5 500ui hcg (250ui mon/thur)
week 8-9 " " " "
week 12-13 " " " "

i'm only going to go about 500 cals over, as i want this to be a lean bulk. and hopfully lose some fat too.

thanks for reading and i look forward to advice!

[*ANABOLIC SUPERMAN*]

Bf% should be a little lower before starting cycle. Id use nolva instead of clomid Dosage 40/40/20 you could extend to 4 weeks.

[user12345654321]

i am planning on doing a couple of weeks of cardio x2 ED. does everything else seem ok? i'm probally going to use clomid as i used it before and didn't get any sides.

[bbuilder]

You are too young. Read the forums.

[user12345654321]

thanks for that, i have spent the last few months reading as much as i can. thats why i'm asking if the above cycle is planned propery and has everything it needs etc ...

[WARMachine]

Hello, thanks for reading this and i look forward to responces.

age 22
5.8"
82kg (If you are 180lbs and 16%BF your diet sucks...)
about 16% bf (This is to high to begin cycling)


week 1-12 500mg Test E (250mg shot twice a week) (Good)

week 1-17 25mg proviron ED (If this is for covering estrogen while on cycle, run it at 50mg ED)

week 15-20 20mg nolvadex ED (id run it for 6weeks)

week 15-17 50mg clomid ED (This is cool, but needs to be run for 4weeks )

week 4-5 500ui hcg (250ui mon/thur)
week 8-9 " " " "
week 12-13 " " " "

^^^ What is this? Why would you run HCG for two weeks in the middle of your cycle? If you want to run HCG, run it the last two weeks of your cycle, and the first two weeks of your PCT

i'm only going to go about 500 cals over, as i want this to be a lean bulk. and hopfully lose some fat too.

thanks for reading and i look forward to advice!

I think you need to do more research, get the BF% down to 12%, and get a new diet because your current one sucks...


Matter of fact, show me your current diet!

[user12345654321]

the thing with the hcg . from what i've read it better not to let ur balls completly shutdown (so much easier to recover after), and hcg is suppresseve so its best to run it on cycle not during pct (i have read several articles going both ways on this [some say on, some say pct]). i planned the 2 week thing becasue of desensitization if its used for a long time ?

i'll probally up the proviron to 50mg ED then. because i am thinking ai.

the body fat % is a guess. i can see that i have abs but i can defenitly pinch an inch!

my diet, i've been on this for about a month. i am trying to get the body fat down.

average day.
6.45am 10g bcaa then 20 -30 mins cardio on the cross trainer in front of the tele. straight after this i have 10g bcaa & 10g l-glut

7.30am 150g oats(porrige) + 30g protein shake multi vit + 2x 1200mg 3,6,9

10am wholeweat pasta/brown rice 150g (at least) couple of big hands fulls of salad leaves, and either 4 chicken breasts or turkey/pork tuna (you get the idea)

1pm either oats & protein shake (at least 150g powderd oats 50g pro) or a couple of wholegrain turkey/chicken sandwiches (made myself with at least 50g of meat, very thick slices of bread, no butter). 1x 1200mg 3,6,9


4pm brown rice 150g/whole wheat pasta, chicken/turkey/tuna/pork. salad leaves again

5.30pm workout, i workout 3 maybe 4 days a week.(depends on how sore i am from the last workout) i know that when i'm on i will be able to train 7 days a week, hopfully at least. (usually only for about 40-50 mins, just find that short workouts help build mass strength much better for me)
PW shake, 500cals weight gainer shake.


if it a non workout day then

6pm 50g rice/pasta, salad leaves & chicken/turkey/beef/tuna


8pm 2 pieces of healthy peanut butter on wholewheat toast


10.30pm 100g milk protein shake, multi vit & 2x 1200mg 3,6,9


thanks for the responce, i would like comments on my diet as i know that it is the main factor in what your body looks like. i've probaly put on about 2 stone over the last 3 years, during my first years training i didn't know how much of a big part diet is!

[WARMachine]

the thing with the hcg . from what i've read it better not to let ur balls completly shutdown (so much easier to recover after), and hcg is suppresseve so its best to run it on cycle not during pct (i have read several articles going both ways on this [some say on, some say pct]). i planned the 2 week thing becasue of desensitization if its used for a long time ? (Yes, ive read conflicting opinons as well, i just know that what works for me is, two weeks before the end of your cycle, and two weeks into PCT.)

i'll probally up the proviron to 50mg ED then. because i am thinking ai. (good idea)

the body fat % is a guess. i can see that i have abs but i can defenitly pinch an inch! (You need to have this checked.)

my diet, i've been on this for about a month. i am trying to get the body fat down.

average day.
6.45am 10g bcaa then 20 -30 mins cardio on the cross trainer in front of the tele. straight after this i have 10g bcaa & 10g l-glut

7.30am 150g oats(porrige) + 30g protein shake multi vit + 2x 1200mg 3,6,9

10am wholeweat pasta/brown rice 150g (at least) couple of big hands fulls of salad leaves, and either 4 chicken breasts or turkey/pork tuna (you get the idea)

1pm either oats & protein shake (at least 150g powderd oats 50g pro) or a couple of wholegrain turkey/chicken sandwiches (made myself with at least 50g of meat, very thick slices of bread, no butter). 1x 1200mg 3,6,9


4pm brown rice 150g/whole wheat pasta, chicken/turkey/tuna/pork. salad leaves again

5.30pm workout, i workout 3 maybe 4 days a week.(depends on how sore i am from the last workout) i know that when i'm on i will be able to train 7 days a week, hopfully at least. (usually only for about 40-50 mins, just find that short workouts help build mass strength much better for me)
PW shake, 500cals weight gainer shake.


if it a non workout day then

6pm 50g rice/pasta, salad leaves & chicken/turkey/beef/tuna


8pm 2 pieces of healthy peanut butter on wholewheat toast


10.30pm 100g milk protein shake, multi vit & 2x 1200mg 3,6,9


thanks for the responce, i would like comments on my diet as i know that it is the main factor in what your body looks like. i've probaly put on about 2 stone over the last 3 years, during my first years training i didn't know how much of a big part diet is!

Honestly, it seems youre getting almost half of your daily intake of protein from shakes and other weight gainers... Just looking at this for a mintue, i can tell you your diet is no good for bulking or cutting. Its a mess... Post this same thing in the correct section ( http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutrition/ ) and let some of us break this thing down and get you in the right place.

[user12345654321]

thanks for the reply, i'll study the diet forums!

apart for the hcg use being debatable(i'm probally going to go with on cycle use becuase i like the idea of not losing ur balls. i may run it the first week pct aswell, does the just of the cycle seem gd?

[WARMachine]

yeah the rest seems good. Its a pretty basic beginner cycle so...

Honestly bro, its pointless to run the HCG for 2 weeks in the middle of your cycle.

Your nuts will come back to you a few weeks into PCT.

HCG protocal differs from person to person, but ive never heard of anyone taking it mid cycle, then stopping, taking it again, stopping, and then taking it again...

just my .02

Happy Cycling!

[user12345654321]

thanks for the input war4BTT.

does any1 else have opinions on the hcg use during the cycle (the 2 week thing to avoid desensitization) ?

[Mulciber]

i run it all the way through my cycles..500iu 2-3 times a week. ending before i start pct

[user12345654321]

is the desensitization down to size of dose rather than length of time using it then? so using 250ui mon/thurs week 6-13 is maybe a better idea?

[Mulciber]

a clip from swales pct

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn�t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn�t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM�s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery,