What is a good BF % to be at before starting a cycle?

**DieselDude187** · 09-15-2008, 12:35 PM

How lean should a person be before starting a cycle of say, Test Prop and EQ?

**bbuilder** · 09-15-2008, 12:36 PM

10ish%. You should be at least 25+, training for several years WITHOUT making any natural gains no matter how hard you try, and your diet (most important) should be perfect!

If any of the above aren't in order, the gear is a waste of time and money.

**hotpink** · 09-15-2008, 12:38 PM

12%.

**DieselDude187** · 09-15-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by bbuilder

10ish%. You should be at least 25+, training for several years WITHOUT making any natural gains no matter how hard you try, and your diet (most important) should be perfect!

If any of the above aren't in order, the gear is a waste of time and money.

I disagree with the second part of your theory. Almost everybody will get SOME gains naturally if they work hard enough. Gear just takes you beyond the natural limit.

***ANABOLIC SUPERMAN*** · 09-15-2008, 12:39 PM

10-12%

**bbuilder** · 09-15-2008, 12:41 PM

Almost everybody will get SOME gains naturally if they work hard enough.

Exactly my point. If you continue to get gains naturally, there is no need for gear.

You use gear to get you past your sticking points that training and diet cannot.

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 12:41 PM

12% and you need to be at least 21. I dont agree with BB on that one. I think 21 is an acceptable age given your diet and base is up to par.

**bbuilder** · 09-15-2008, 12:43 PM

When you SHOULDN'T use AAS imho....

That's because you are under 25. Still just a child.

Under 25 and you are wasting your time and money. Your body is still making a small cycle under that age, so why add gear when you can achieve it naturally?

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by bbuilder

When you SHOULDN'T use AAS imho....

That's because you are under 25. Still just a child.

Under 25 and you are wasting your time and money. Your body is still making a small cycle under that age, so why add gear when you can achieve it naturally?

Lol ok... Im a full grown man bro. I dont need to be told im a child by someone over the internet.

You say you have to be 25 like its from the word of God. I agree, the longer you wait the better, but there comes a point when someone hits the natural wall. I know i did.

**inky-e** · 09-15-2008, 01:35 PM

15 max

**bbuilder** · 09-15-2008, 02:46 PM

Your profile says you are 23. How do you "think" that's full grown?

You are a CHILD when it comes to thinking you need gear. If that seems harsh to you, it needs to be said. It's very simple really.

If you haven't read this yet, READ IT.

When you SHOULDN'T use AAS imho....

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 03:01 PM

I KNOW im full grown. Im not a child when thinking i need gear. Ive done gear. I know about gear.

Yes i have read that thank you. Ive trained for many years, ive had a great diet for years and i felt ive reached my natural peak. So i did AAS.

You pimp that thread around like its the word of god.

You dont know what youre talking about.

If saying im a child because im 23 makes you feel better, by all means go for it. Sorry to tell you, it doesnt make it true...

**bbuilder** · 09-15-2008, 03:42 PM

I KNOW im full grown. Im not a child when thinking i need gear. Ive done gear. I know about gear.

You obviously know nothing about gear. Otherwise you'd know that your body is not mature yet regarding your hormones, etc. Good for you doing gear. Shows you know even less.

Yes i have read that thank you. Ive trained for many years, ive had a great diet for years and i felt ive reached my natural peak. So i did AAS.

I'll bet you money you didn't train properly and meet your natural potential.

You pimp that thread around like its the word of god.

Not sure what you mean? If you think my word is "god", great. Never thought of it that way, but thank you if you do.

You dont know what youre talking about.

haha. Lets PRETEND that's the case, my trainer who is a professional Bodybuilder says the same things I do. YOU, are the one that knows nothing.

If saying im a child because im 23 makes you feel better, by all means go for it. Sorry to tell you, it doesnt make it true...

It doesn't make me feel better. Saying you are moron would make me feel better. Saying you are a child is fact when it comes to AAS.

Any more questions?

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by bbuilder

can you give me factual knowledge? Dont bother if youre gonna offer more of your opinion based information.

you obviously know nothing about gear. Otherwise you'd know that your body is not mature yet regarding your hormones, etc. Good for you doing gear. Shows you know even less.

you know this how? Oh thats right you have no ****ing clue what youre talking about ok!
i'll bet you money you didn't train properly and meet your natural potential.

you dont know what i mean because you are a bafoon. You just post up dummers thread and think its a factual when its actually a opinon.
not sure what you mean? If you think my word is "god", great. Never thought of it that way, but thank you if you do.

"oh my trainer is a bb" are you a professional? No thats what i thought. Youre just some old gym rat posting his opinon!!!
haha. Lets pretend that's the case, my trainer who is a professional bodybuilder says the same things i do. You, are the one that knows nothing.

go ahead i know you need to make yourself feel better by putting down others by calling them children. I hope its helping
it doesn't make me feel better. Saying you are moron would make me feel better. Saying you are a child is fact when it comes to aas.

Any more questions?

**jasperhup** · 09-15-2008, 04:01 PM

why do you want to hit your natural peak before going on?

the way i've understood it -- any mass over what your body can hold with its normal test levels will be lost when you go off. so it makes sense to get to your natural limit with gear and maintain it naturally.

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 04:03 PM

Ive managed to get to 175lbs natural...

Now im about 205.

Ive been off my last cycle for 1 1/2 months and havent lost a pound.

Its all about diet and training Jasper.

**jasperhup** · 09-15-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

Ive managed to get to 175lbs natural...

Now im about 205.

Ive been off my last cycle for 1 1/2 months and havent lost a pound.

Its all about diet and training Jasper.

i'm aware of the diet and training part, just new to the gear.

i will say, if you are keeping it on then it is not beyond where you could get to naturally (maybe you would need near perfect conditions, but unless i'm simply wrong, if it is beyond what you COULD do naturally, then without the extra hormones to support it it will go away).

oh, and are there studies supporting the particular bf % (i keep reading 13 and below, but some say 10 which is leaner than many athletes who use) or is it just based on the logic of not getting too much estrogen pumping?

appreciate any and all input. thanks

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 04:22 PM

Generally 12%BF is accepted as the norm.

The lower the better.

I peaked at 175lbs and i was two months from my 22 B-day the first time i used.

Since then ive gained 35lbs.

My BF% has only gone up about 2%.

Im comfortable with the decision ive made.

**jasperhup** · 09-15-2008, 04:29 PM

yea, i'd be pretty comfortable with that too. my point is just about the genetic limit vs slow downs in gains.

most natural guys spend as much time not gaining as gaining, and often have to get fat or unbalance their training to get results (like focusing on one particular lift, and it's hard to stay in cardio shape while pushing strength naturally).

i think 12% and then on is the way i'll go.

**BritishColumbian** · 09-15-2008, 04:29 PM

When i seen this question I was "oh oh, here we go, theres goona be a fight"
sure nuff, lol

**WARMachine** · 09-15-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by jasperhup

yea, i'd be pretty comfortable with that too. my point is just about the genetic limit vs slow downs in gains.

most natural guys spend as much time not gaining as gaining, and often have to get fat or unbalance their training to get results (like focusing on one particular lift, and it's hard to stay in cardio shape while pushing strength naturally).

i think 12% and then on is the way i'll go.

Id agree bro...