Maybe a dumb question but i will ask anyway. I have a prescription for some stong ibuprofin that my doc gave me a few months ago. Does anyone try pain killers to help with the post injection pain?
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Maybe a dumb question but i will ask anyway. I have a prescription for some stong ibuprofin that my doc gave me a few months ago. Does anyone try pain killers to help with the post injection pain?
you want to stay away from anti inflammatorys on a cycle, that and alcohol.
Thanks. Thats why I was asking.
Ok newb me up, why is this?Quote:
Originally Posted by warchild28
cus my trt doc told me too, didnt ask whyQuote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
hum..wonder why.. are/were you running any orals as well?
rarely do NSAIDS cause cholestasis, or impaired bile flow. This is the form of liver toxicity associated with oral AAS like dbol. you are probably increasing the risk for developing cholestasis by combining the two, but as I mentioned, NSAID induced cholestasis is rare so you probably shouldn't worry too much..
ibuprofen=advil, you can buy it over the counter for like $3. I wouldnt call it a 'pain killer', but as long as you arent taking a significant amount 1g+ per day in conjunction with orals, you're fine. Also, consider this: the ibuprofen is only a temporary fix for your problem. You need to find better gear for next time. You shouldnt have gear that causes pain thats that bad. Im using 100mg/ml prop and no pain whatsoever, so switch around till you find one that isnt as painful.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard1997
hell ive used 200mg prop that was "almost" painless.
NSAIDS like ibuprofen negatively effect protein synthesis, or so I've heard. So the primary objective while on cycle is to increase protein synthesis, NSAIDS would hinder this increased synthesis.
I read a study on this, NSAIDS ( and not all of them) can have a very mild effect on protein synthesis, but this has no knock on effect toward muscle hypertrophy.
Of the 7 NSAIDS used in the study 4 had no effect on PS, one of those four was ibuprofen.
dear god, I could not get through a day with out ibuprofen. It is one of my food groups.
So just to be clear, I am good taking Ibuprofin while on cycle?Quote:
Originally Posted by LATS60
i believe so..
This is true, I posted the test results of the study a few months back in the training forum I think. I'll find it and repost it.Quote:
Originally Posted by M302_Imola
I'll go find it and edit this post when I do to include the study
EDIT>>>
Motrin and other NSAIDs have an influence on protien synthesis after exercise, in other words - yes it can effect your gains
"Neither drug had any influence on whole body protein breakdown, as
measured by rate of phenylalanine appearance, on serum
creatine kinase, or on rating of perceived muscle soreness
compared with PLA. These results suggest that over-thecounter
doses of both ibuprofen and acetaminophen suppress
the protein synthesis response in skeletal muscle after eccentric
resistance exercise
Ibuprofen and acetaminophen are purported to relieve
muscle soreness and pain through separate mechanisms.
Ibuprofen is known to block cyclooxgenase (EC
1.14.99.1), which then reduces metabolites produced by
this enzyme, such as prostaglandins, that are at least
partially responsible for inflammation and algesia (14,
35, 36). However, prostaglandins have also been shown
to regulate protein metabolism, and NSAIDs similar to
ibuprofen have been shown to blunt protein metabolism
in animal skeletal muscle (24, 30). Therefore,
skeletal muscle protein metabolism may be influenced
in individuals who consume ibuprofen after unaccustomed
exercise. The mechanism of analgesic action of
acetaminophen, also known as paracetamol, is less
clear; however, it is believed to have its analgesic
action within the central nervous system (8, 11, 15, 32,
36). Thus acetaminophen would not be expected to
interfere with muscle protein metabolism after exercise.
......However, long-term use of
these drugs may inhibit the normal hypertrophic response
to resistance training. Future studies on the
impact of chronic consumption of over-the-counter
doses of these drugs on skeletal muscle are warranted"
i believe that just a small amount of anabolic support will most likely overcome any possible negative effects of nsaids as far as gains are concerned.
I was thinking the same thing as I continued reading this thread.....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by double chicken
I'm sure they didn't include that into the equation....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulciber
This was done with people not on anabolics
Me to dc i take advil almost every day.Not a lot but damn i am 42 and train heavy and hard i hurt.:tear:
Can you give accreditation to this study please, i would like to read the whole, i was totally unaware that the effect that NSAIDS had on protein synthesis was detrimental to muscle hypertrophy, i would like to know what proteins and from were, these studies are based on.IE, for all i know they could be studying astrocytoma cell line proteins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizz28
leading cause of liver failure..
http://www.newscientist.com/article....mg18825295.000
I think the medical community is starting to become ever more conservative.. live with the pain thinking because people are more and more abusive..
here are a couple that may be of interest.. as i said.. i like to see both sides as well. :)
Quote:
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Mar;282(3):E551-6. Links
Effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on postexercise muscle protein synthesis.Trappe TA, White F, Lambert CP, Cesar D, Hellerstein M, Evans WJ.
Donald W. Reynolds Center on Aging, Department of Geriatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, and the Central Arkansas Veterans HealthCare System, Little Rock, Arkansas 72205, USA. [email protected]
We examined the effect of two commonly consumed over-the-counter analgesics, ibuprofen and acetaminophen, on muscle protein synthesis and soreness after high-intensity eccentric resistance exercise. Twenty-four males (25 +/- 3 yr, 180 +/- 6 cm, 81 +/- 6 kg, and 17 +/- 8% body fat) were assigned to one of three groups that received either the maximal over-the-counter dose of ibuprofen (IBU; 1,200 mg/day), acetaminophen (ACET; 4,000 mg/day), or a placebo (PLA) after 10-14 sets of 10 eccentric repetitions at 120% of concentric one-repetition maximum with the knee extensors. Postexercise (24 h) skeletal muscle fractional synthesis rate (FSR) was increased 76 +/- 19% (P < 0.05) in PLA (0.058 +/- 0.012%/h) and was unchanged (P > 0.05) in IBU (35 +/- 21%; 0.021 +/- 0.014%/h) and ACET (22 +/- 23%; 0.010 +/- 0.019%/h). Neither drug had any influence on whole body protein breakdown, as measured by rate of phenylalanine appearance, on serum creatine kinase, or on rating of perceived muscle soreness compared with PLA. These results suggest that over-the-counter doses of both ibuprofen and acetaminophen suppress the protein synthesis response in skeletal muscle after eccentric resistance exercise. Thus these two analgesics may work through a common mechanism to influence protein metabolism in skeletal muscle
Quote:
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Oct;86(10):5067-70. Links
Skeletal muscle PGF(2)(alpha) and PGE(2) in response to eccentric resistance exercise: influence of ibuprofen acetaminophen.Trappe TA, Fluckey JD, White F, Lambert CP, Evans WJ.
Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Donald W. Reynolds Center on Aging, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, 4301 West Markham, Little Rock, AR 72205, USA. [email protected]
PGs have been shown to modulate skeletal muscle protein metabolism as well as inflammation and pain. In nonskeletal muscle tissues, the over the counter analgesic drugs ibuprofen and acetaminophen function through suppression of PG synthesis. We previously reported that ibuprofen and acetaminophen inhibit the normal increase in skeletal muscle protein synthesis after high intensity eccentric resistance exercise. The current study examined skeletal muscle PG levels in the same subjects to further investigate the mechanisms of action of these drugs in exercised skeletal muscle. Twenty-four males (25 +/- 3 yr) were assigned to 3 groups that received the maximal over the counter dose of ibuprofen (1200 mg/d), acetaminophen (4000 mg/d), or a placebo after 10-14 sets of 10 eccentric repetitions at 120% of concentric 1 repetition maximum using the knee extensors. Preexercise and 24 h postexercise biopsies of the vastus lateralis revealed that the exercise-induced change in PGF(2alpha) in the placebo group (77%) was significantly different (P < 0.05) from those in the ibuprofen (-1%) and acetaminophen (-14%) groups. However, the exercise-induced change in PGE(2) in the placebo group (64%) was only significantly different (P < 0.05) from that in the acetaminophen group (-16%). The exercise-induced changes in PGF(2alpha) and PGE(2) were not different between the ibuprofen and acetaminophen groups. These results suggest that ibuprofen and acetaminophen have a comparable effect on suppressing the normal increase in PGF(2alpha) in human skeletal muscle after eccentric resistance exercise, which may profoundly influence the anabolic response of muscle to this form of exercise.
Very interesting mulciber, reps.
Oops, i gotta spread some around.
thank you for posting that bro..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulciber
i had condensed the study that was published as to not take up a page worth of text. I realize what I posted didn't make too much sence and I appalogize for that.
I'm sure taking a motrin here and there won't have much effect on anything, and especially, if you are on anabolics. From what I understand..., Taking it on a regular basis will have these effects on protien synthesis
Basically, if you really need it, take it. Otherwise, try alternative methods of pain control (ice/heat/transdermal patches)
what about hours before lifting?
So NSAID's only effect protein synthesis after resistance training? I usually take a couple motrin before I lift...the study above said "after resistance training". So can I get away with it before I train?
Motrin stays in your system for a while, You are taking the words way too literal.
"Ibuprofen has a dose-dependent duration of action of approximately 4–8 hours"
example, if you took an 800mg motrin 2 hours before you train, it will stay active for about 6 hours afterwards
Again, this study is about people who take it on a regular basis such as 600mg 3x/day meaning that there is always the drug in the blood stream
1. There are NO known drug interactions between Testosterone and Ibuprofen.
If your HRT M.D. advised against it, I don't believe it was because he/she was concerned about your possible decreased gains in the gym.
I don't see any contra-indication to using it. Max safe dose is 800mg every 8 hrs but I wouldn't continue this for more than 1-2 weeks at this dose. All NSAIDS (non steroidal anti-inflammatories including Ibuprofen, Ketorolac, Naproxen and many others) have a certain risk of GI BLEED. THIS IS THEIR MAIN RISK.
Those are interesting studies posted above which indicate that the inhibition of prostaglandin production may interfere with anabolism. However, one needs to put it in perspective. It is probably not such a significant effect which would outweigh the occasional use of an NSAID for musculoskeletal pain.
2. Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin trade name) IS NOT TYLENOL - Acetominophen.
Acetominophen is metabolized by the hepatic cytochrome p450 group of enzymes and is thus relatively LIVER TOXIC. THIS, not Ibuprofen, is the drug that people are talking about when they refer to a common pain medicine being dangerous to your liver. Maximum safe dosage is 1000mg every 6hrs. This would be in the absence of any other meds or substances which put a strain on your liver - alcohol, warfarin, oral anabolics to name but a few of very many.
Ibuprofen is not Liver toxic, except in very idiosyncratic cases.
TF
M.D.
You failed to disprove the study above... All those are about is liver toxicity.
And I'll say it for a 3rd time, this study is about taking NSAIDs on a regular basis, not here and there
could have sworn you were the one who said you're in 3rd year med school
I'm sorry, not sure if you're referring to me, if so I don't know who you may have me confused with. I graduated med school in '99. I have been in clinical medicine since.
If referring to my post, I was not trying to disprove any study. My points succintly were:
1) there is no drug interaction btwn Test and Ibu, this is easily verifiable on any drug interaction search engine
2) Ibu ok to take, tho long term high doses of course have morbidity, particularly with respect to the GI system.
3) It is interesting that NSAIDS b/c of their effect on prostaglandins may somehwat decrease anabolism
4) Several people on this board (and elsewhere) have confused NSAIDs with being hepatoxic, whereas it is Acetaminophen which is to be concerned about in that regard.