1st Cycle (sus) Started but need help pls.

[lew00029478]

Hi,

Ive just started my first sus cycle (had 1st injection on monday)and im doing 500mg/ml per week injecting twice per week on a monday and a friday. I have 10 philes and another 10 on its way and was planning a 10 week cycle. Is that way too much for a first time?

Aslo i was told buy the guy that sold me it in the gym (and he looked liek he knew what he was saying if you knwo what i mean lol) that i shouldnt worry about bitch tits etc, is that right at those doses on that cycle?

If its not right then could someone please advice me on what PCT i need and how to do this and what to take? tamoxifen ?

Hope someone can help and please try to keep jargon to a minimum as i guess im a 'noob' and want to be crystal clear what you guys are telling me here.

Cheers

week

P.S Ive read that this is the way to go? (see below) god its soooooo confusing

wk dose
1 250 sus
2 500 sus
3 500 sus
4 500 sus
5 500 sus
6 250 sus
7 no sus and no clomid here
8 100mg clomid
9 100mg clomid
10 50mg clomid

[smokeyd]

ok you need to be injecting at least every other day with sust and 500 a week for 10 weeks is straight, but i dont think you will need 20 bottles unless there like 2ml or something each

[wickid1111]

go read the stickys man... check out the pct forum and ask what you need there.

theres alot of different opinions on sust but mine is shoot it ed or eod.

Age, height, weight, bf%, training experience???

yes you are at risk for bitch tits when u do any test and yes you need PCT

[LATS60]

Yep 2x wk is fine, there is absolutely no need to inject more often than that.
PCT, have a look in that section, just a standard clomid/nolva for 4wks should do.

[redz]

bitch tits can happen at almost any dose in theory. It is better to have something on hand just incase any signs of gyno appear. You should inject sustanon eod to get the true benifts from the short ester prop in it. You should have done more research before just starting up injecting after getting advice form a dealer.

[LATS60]

bitch tits can happen at almost any dose in theory. It is better to have something on hand just incase any signs of gyno appear. You should inject sustanon eod to get the true benifts from the short ester prop in it. You should have done more research before just starting up injecting after getting advice form a dealer.

Thats rubbish, you have no concept of how multi esters work so stop saying you need to jab at least EOD to take advantage of the prop, it's just no true, simple as.

[lew00029478]

ok you need to be injecting at least every other day with sust and 500 a week for 10 weeks is straight, but i dont think you will need 20 bottles unless there like 2ml or something each

cheers smokey but i edited my post while you must have been reading it

So if im doign it every other day for 10 weeks thats 3 times a week (roughly) so that would be 60 250mg/ml piles i would need. So why do you say "i dont think youll need 20? Sorry mate im just confused.

also what about PCT? Would above be a good PCT?

[LATS60]

20 amps, thats what you need for a 10wk cycle@ 500mg wk.

[wickid1111]

vials are ussually 10mls, you need about 3 for a cycle. how many mls are yours???

[redz]

Thats rubbish, you have no concept of how multi esters work so stop saying you need to jab at least EOD to take advantage of the prop, it's just no true, simple as.

Its not "rubbish" the short ester will not be active by the time the next inject happens and so blood levels will never be stable injected at that frequency.

[wickid1111]

im doing my sust ED

[lew00029478]

I have to say im inclined to go with LATS60 on his answer judging by the research ive done (and yes i did do some research REDZ so less sarcasm mate please and more help would be cool). You can go on reasearchign forever and you'll find 50 people all with different opinions that the problem.

However most of the stuff ive read and peopel ive talked to suggested twice weekly as you know, sus is a mixture of short AND long lasting esters which is why theres no real need to hammer it so much.

So LATS60 sorry to be a pain but the 'standard clomid/nolva for 4 wks" consist of.

If im doign 10 week twice weekly cycle (500mg/ml per week) when should i start taking Clomid? or Nolva? or do i need both and how much?

thanks to all for input so far

[redz]

im doing my sust ED

Thank you thats even better!!

Think about injecting prop by itself twice per week.......Lats it is clear you have no idea how esters and blood stability work.

[redz]

and yes i did do some research REDZ so less sarcasm mate please and more help would be cool

I was just telling it like it is.....

[lew00029478]

vials are ussually 10mls, you need about 3 for a cycle. how many mls are yours???

they are 1ml vials each with 250mg per mil.

["Maximus"]

Thats rubbish, you have no concept of how multi esters work so stop saying you need to jab at least EOD to take advantage of the prop, it's just no true, simple as.

Really?

sust is injected ed/eod and peaks in 5-7 weeks
prop is injected ed and peaks in 1 week
enan is injected 2x a week and peaks 4-6 weeks
why inject like a short ester for the result of a long ester

If you care to read and go through this!
http://timinvermont.com/fitness/ester.htm

Originally Posted by The Iron Game
Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test.

The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.

I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.

250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?

Enanthate contains more raw test than the mixture in sust.

Did I forget to mention the sust flu? The long build up of this? The long duration it takes to leave the body due to the decanoate ester?


Now before I start writing a book on this I want a serious discussion with all you sust lovers

Peace

Sustanon and why you shouldnt use it ^^^^^^^

And this is not meant to flame on you or start one... but your opinion must be respected, as well as others' opinions!

Its not "rubbish" the short ester will not be active by the time the next inject happens and so blood levels will never be stable injected at that frequency.

Right!!!

["Maximus"]

I have to say im inclined to go with LATS60 on his answer judging by the research ive done (and yes i did do some research REDZ so less sarcasm mate please and more help would be cool). You can go on reasearchign forever and you'll find 50 people all with different opinions that the problem.

However most of the stuff ive read and peopel ive talked to suggested twice weekly as you know, sus is a mixture of short AND long lasting esters which is why theres no real need to hammer it so much.

So LATS60 sorry to be a pain but the 'standard clomid/nolva for 4 wks" consist of.

If im doign 10 week twice weekly cycle (500mg/ml per week) when should i start taking Clomid? or Nolva? or do i need both and how much?

thanks to all for input so far

Good! keep us posted.

[LATS60]

Its not "rubbish" the short ester will not be active by the time the next inject happens and so blood levels will never be stable injected at that frequency.

Thats not how multi esters work, the esters all release their test into the bloodstream at the same time, they just have different durations of action.
Thats why you get such a long Active/HL.

["Maximus"]

lew00029478

Also, do spend sometime on the PCT stickies bro... don't expect spoon feeding info on such basic stuff like this... even before you start thinking on cycling, the #1 thing you should spend the majority of your research on is on PCT... regardless of whatever cycle you're planning on doing!

goodluck

[LATS60]

Yes maximus really, this is not my opinion, it's a chemical/scientific fact.
It's just that some idiot thought sh1t prop in that, got to jab at least EOD, then everyone started quoting parrot fashion without even thinking... as usual.

[LATS60]

I have to say im inclined to go with LATS60 on his answer judging by the research ive done (and yes i did do some research REDZ so less sarcasm mate please and more help would be cool). You can go on reasearchign forever and you'll find 50 people all with different opinions that the problem.

However most of the stuff ive read and peopel ive talked to suggested twice weekly as you know, sus is a mixture of short AND long lasting esters which is why theres no real need to hammer it so much.

So LATS60 sorry to be a pain but the 'standard clomid/nolva for 4 wks" consist of.

If im doign 10 week twice weekly cycle (500mg/ml per week) when should i start taking Clomid? or Nolva? or do i need both and how much?

thanks to all for input so far

Thanks, someone with some common sense.
PCT standard clomid 100/50/50/50,, Nolva 40/20/20/20

[lew00029478]

P.S Its funny but ive only had one injection and yeh ive got the flu ! How longs that likely to last? And how long would yuo expect me body to take to get used to the sus and therefore for flu sympoms to go.

also detlaied pct on a 10 week cycle as above please? Any detaield answer on how much and what i should use on that dose/cycle of sus?

[lew00029478]

Thanks, someone with some common sense.
PCT standard clomid 100/50/50/50,, Nolva 40/20/20/20

is that clomid AND nolva or are you saying those are the doses for each but dont take both together?

And are those doses per day? treat me liek im in idiot please cos im not gettign it

[wickid1111]

sus is a mixture of short AND long lasting esters which is why theres no real need to hammer it so much.

you dont "hammer" in a lot you take the same amount. you just take it in smaller doses more frequently and it all stays nice and consistant

["Maximus"]

Yes maximus really, this is not my opinion, it's a chemical/scientific fact.
It's just that some idiot thought sh1t prop in that, got to jab at least EOD, then everyone started quoting parrot fashion without even thinking... as usual.

Easy bud! Nobody is flaming you nor disputing your claims.. but if the great majority of experienced members around have gotten far better results and less sides by pinning Sust. EOD or ED (from experience and cycle results) you shouldn't go around just denying such method as inappropriate or simply just wrong and just advocating what you think, in your opinion, is the only right thing.

["Maximus"]

@ Lew,

Goodluck on your cycle experience. Keep us posted.

[lew00029478]

will do maximum but still tryign to figure out what the best option is for PCT and when i should start it (on my 10 week cycle) and what i shoul take and how much lol

any DETAILED answer would be great matey.

P.S Ive got clomid here, i just need to know when to start it? Im told 18 days after last injection (in the sticky on the pct threads) but ti doesnt say how much or for how long?

["Maximus"]

Sust:

Wks 1-10 75mg Sus. ED or
Wks 1-10 125mg Sus. EOD injections

Ok... PCT is started 21 days after last inject on Sustanon !

So, 21 days after last Sust. Inject:

Weeks 1-2 Nolva/Clomid 20mg/50mg
Weeks 3-4 Nolva/Clomid 20mg/25mg

Or you can do:

Wks 1-6 Nolva 20mgs/20mgs/20mgs/20mgs/20mgs/20mgs ED
(for last two weeks here, you can lower dosage to 10mgs if you feel like your body has responded well on the first 4 weeks on the Nolva/Clomid... if you're unsure, just keep the 20mgs protocol thru the entire 6 weeks.)
-AND-
Wks 1-4 Clomid 50mg/50mg/25mg/25mg ED
(broken down to you per week)

ED = Every Day for both Nolva and Clomid

["Maximus"]

Please, do spend sometime reading the PCT/AAS profile stickies!

Goodluck and keep us posted.

[LATS60]

Thank you thats even better!!

Think about injecting prop by itself twice per week.......Lats it is clear you have no idea how esters and blood stability work.

Your not injecting prop, your injecting sust.
If your not inteligent enough to realise that sust esters do not work independantly of each other, theres' no point.
Whats the HL of sust?

[redz]

Your not injecting prop, your injecting sust.
If your not inteligent enough to realise that sust esters do not work independantly of each other, theres' no point.
Whats the HL of sust?

You are getting pretty rude and ignorant. They do work independant of each other. There is no one else supporting your argument and it is common knowledge on this board that it is superior to shoot sustanon eod or ed. This isnt saying you couldnt shoot it every 3.5 days it will just be less effective and have more chance of side effects. The HL of sustanon is irrelevant because it is an average number given not specific to each ester. It has no bearing on anything.

[LATS60]

Easy bud! Nobody is flaming you nor disputing your claims.. but if the great majority of experienced members around have gotten far better results and less sides by pinning Sust. EOD or ED (from experience and cycle results) you shouldn't go around just denying such method is inappropriate or simply just wrong and just advocating what you think, in your opinion, is the only right thing.

Thats just it, have they got better results and less sides, i think not, but i'll bet my last penny that there are plenty who will come on and say they did.

I'm denying the fact that some ppl are disputing the claims made by the science and endochrinology world.
Sust does not need to be injected ED or EOD or E3D 2xwk will give extremely stable blood test levels and i can prove it.

[redz]

Thats just it, have they got better results and less sides, i think not, but i'll bet my last penny that there are plenty who will come on and say they did.

I'm denying the fact that some ppl are disputing the claims made by the science and endochrinology world.
Sust does not need to be injected ED or EOD or E3D 2xwk will give extremely stable blood test levels and i can prove it.

Well I guess you just called alot of people on this board liars.

[LATS60]

You are getting pretty rude and ignorant. They do work independant of each other. There is no one else supporting your argument and it is common knowledge on this board that it is superior to shoot sustanon eod or ed. This isnt saying you couldnt shoot it every 3.5 days it will just be less effective and have more chance of side effects. The HL of sustanon is irrelevant because it is an average number given not specific to each ester. It has no bearing on anything.

HL is irrelevant, jesus your naive.
Whatever, your talking rubbish.
Dispute the science in black and white.

Pharmacokinetics
SUSTANON 250 contains four esters of testosterone with different durations of action. The esters are hydrolyzed into the natural hormone testosterone as soon as they enter the general circulation.

Absorption
A single dose of SUSTANON 250 leads to an increase of total plasma testosterone with peak levels of approximately 70 nmol/l (Cmax), which are reached approximately 24-48hrs (tmax) after administration. Plasma testosterone levels return to the lower limit of the normal range in males in approximately 21 days.
Summary.
So put simply, the esters release at the same time, they just have different durations of action.

Sustanon was named specifically because it gave a SUSTained release of action.
Sustanon in comparison to a single estered test is that it provides a constant sustained release of test over a longer period.

For our purposes sustanon can be shot 2xwk and give incredibly stable plasma test levels. Look at any comparison graph showing the release rate of sustanon and a single estered product, they will both show a pretty identical logarithmic curve, the only difference is the sust peak will be higher and the duration of the curve will be longer.
If you wish i can find the link to a clinical endo comparison chart.

["Maximus"]

damn... my browser is slow

["Maximus"]

brb... need to restart computer; just waited like 4 mins trying to edit my posts! I think I have a virus or somethign.. sorry for the offtopic.

[LATS60]

Well I guess you just called alot of people on this board liars.

If they come on here and say they did get better gains shooting ED EOD rather than once or twice wk, yes thats exactly what im saying.

[redz]

HL is irrelevant, jesus your naive.
Whatever, your talking rubbish.
Dispute the science in black and white.

Learn to read......I said it is irrelevant because it is not a hl of sustanon it is the average of each ester in it.

Absorption
A single dose of SUSTANON 250 leads to an increase of total plasma testosterone with peak levels of approximately 70 nmol/l (Cmax), which are reached approximately 24-48hrs (tmax) after administration. Plasma testosterone levels return to the lower limit of the normal range in males in approximately 21 days.
Summary.
So put simply, the esters release at the same time, they just have different durations of action.

That prooved nothing...... that does not show how unstable blood levels would be throughout that time. I have seen graphs that show test levels go up and down with sustanon.

[redz]

Also right off of this site......

Lately, it seems that this product has fallen out of favor with Steroid .com members, as many feel that the inclusion of the Propionate and phenylpropionate estered forms of testosterone in this blend would necessitate shooting every other day. This stems from the fact that testosterone propionate would be shot every other day at least, and testosterone phenylpropionate would generally be shot every third day.

[redz]

heres another one......

If a steroid user uses a long acting testosterone (such as testosterone enanthate), they will inject it once or twice each week. At the end of each week, the long acting ester has tapered down to its original levels and threatens to drop below that level if a new injection is not made. With sustanon, this is not the case due to it's blend of four esters, including the two short ones - propionate and phenylpropionate. As a result of these two shorter esters, more frequent injections are necessary to keep stable blood levels are make full use of all esters in the blend. If a user injections sustanon only once per week for example, full use is not as easily made of the propionate and phenylpropionate esters which release quickly and taper off at a faster rate due to their shorter half lives. The issue of sustanon injections remains heatly debated online. Many users claim that injection only twice a week or even once a week is sufficient for sustanon. However, from my experience, many of these same users are running high quantities of sustanon (as much as 750mg and more each week). The logical conclusion here is that sustanon can be injected only once a week, but as stipulated above, this is done only at the loss of the shorter acting propionate and phenylpropionate esters. Injection one gram of sustanon weekly will still take full advantage of the shorter acting isocaproate and decanoate esters which combined account for 64% of the total blend. 64% of 1000mg weekly is equal to 640mg of active steroid which, in my opinion, can be achieved through more frequent injections at a lower dose to optimize the effect of the short acting esters, accounting for a total use of 100% of the blend. Every other day, or daily injections is the best way to insure the maximum effects of all four esters in the blend.