test ethanate & Stanazol(oral) cycle and diet critique

[huhtamanki]

Hi Guys,
I would appreciate any opinions on the following cycle and diet, the purpose of this cycle is equal mass building and good definition..

Currently weigh 70kgs, 25 years old fairly well cut up upper body, slight fat build ups around love handles and lower stomach, can just see upper abs ..

Cycle:
test ethanate -- Weeks 1- 7 500 mg p/w split 250mg Mondays and Thursday
Stanazol oral --- Weeks 4-7 100 mg p/w split 4 tablets per day (5mg per tab)

PCT Commencing 2 weeks after last injection
Nolvadex -- Weeks 9- 11. 40-50mg per day.
Nolvadex -- Weeks 12-14. 20-25mg per day.

Diet consists of approx 1500 -1700 calories usually made up of 10-15% fat, 40-50% protein and 30-40% carbs.

I train 4x per week with weights and do cardio every day(HIIT 45mins app** calories burnt 300-350)..

If you think I may need to adjust anything please give me your recommendations, dont just YOU KNOW..

Thanks guys really appreciate it

[dece870717]

If you want anything out of the Winstrol I'd use at least 50mg a day.

[NewMuscle83]

my understanding is test e needs to be run for 12 weeks, I definitely understand that 7 weeks is too short of a cycle. I agree with dece in regards to the winstrol dosage.

70 kg, isn't that 155 lbs or so? how tall are you?? If you're anything more than 5'7" (170 cm) you've got a lot more eating to do. Honestly.

oh, and 1500-1700 calories is too low if you want to build mass. You need at least 2400.

[dece870717]

Didn't notice the short Test length but ya if you only want to use Test E for 7 weeks you should frontload like 1,500mg the first week.

[huhtamanki]

I dont want to build much mass.. more importance in quality lean muscle than massive bulk.. thats why I choose to keep calories low and do alot of cardio.. I understand in order to bulk up a fair bit you need to eat the extra calories, however that is not exactly what Im trying to achieve..

I was told stanazol injext are min 50mg a day and orals shouldnt exceed 20-30 mg due to heavy liver toxcity??
Thank for the replies so far..

[dece870717]

I dont want to build much mass.. more importance in quality lean muscle than massive bulk.. thats why I choose to keep calories low and do alot of cardio.. I understand in order to bulk up a fair bit you need to eat the extra calories, however that is not exactly what Im trying to achieve..

I was told stanazol injext are min 50mg a day and orals shouldnt exceed 20-30 mg due to heavy liver toxcity??
Thank for the replies so far..

You want to keep calories low and do a lot of cardio? You're going to gain nothing. Just look at that and read it, if i didn't know better it sounds like a cutting diet. You can not be afraid to add a little bit of fat. Excess is needed to grow period. At least 500 calories a day over maintenance.

50mg for oral or injectable is the minimum. Take milk thistle along with it and you should have no problems and even then you might not even need anything since the length of it is short.

[huhtamanki]

thats exactly right .. its a cutting cycle/ lean mass cycle.. not massive bulk cycle.. so are the calories correct for what Im trying to achieve..??

[NewMuscle83]

no, and that's what everyone has been trying to tell u. if u wanted to bulk I'd tell u to eat at least 3000 cals. since ur doing cardio, taking winstrol, and eating CLEAN, 2400 cals shud b good for what ur trying to accomplish.

[Flex-Appeal]

more cals, more winny. I run it 4 weeks 100mgs ed

[Flex-Appeal]

oh yea test enth go for 12 weeks, takes about 4 weeks to kick in/peak

[BG]

You need to run the test atleast 2 weeks longer or it isnt worth putting your body through a hormonal change. As far as the winny, at 30 mgs its still heptatoxic but you wont get much out of it, at 50mgs the toxicity wont be that much higher, but you will get some results. Just keep it at 4 weeks.

[huhtamanki]

Now adjusted cycle based on all your advice...

Weeks 1 - 12 Test E (500mg p/w Monday and Thursday split 250mg)
Weeks 8 - 12 Stanazol Tabs (350mg p/w split everyday 50mg.. thats 10 tablets per day)

Weeks 14-16 Nolvadex (40-50mg every day)
Weeks 17-19 Nolvadex (20-25mg everyday)

total calories per day 2400, daily cardio , 4 days per week weights..
approx 200grms protein, 200grms carbs and 40-50grams fats.. per day

My supplements consist of, fish oil tablets, multivitamins, protien powder(with amino acids), creatine, L-glutamine..

Hows this? Anything else to add?

[geardup]

I think your winstrol doses are outragous. You do not need 350mg per day of winstrol, and tabs at that matter
350mg per day for four weeks = byebye liver
Stick to 50mg per day maybe 75 with tabs, Better yet pick yourself up 30ml 50mg and inject it daily.

[geardup]

Sorry i read it wrong lol, i thought you were stating 350mg per day, looks good but id search around for some inject

[dariush]

hi
can use tren acetate instead of winny for 4 weeks end of cycle?

[NewMuscle83]

hi
can use tren acetate instead of winny for 4 weeks end of cycle?

bad idea. not for first cycle.

[huhtamanki]

Anyone ?? on the updated cycle???

[NewMuscle83]

I think, and most people will agree, that ur pretty right on. maybe consider an AI if u need it, and milk thistle for ur liver during the winstrol. other than that, all u need is hard work and discipline, and ur guna b happy with the results.

[sox22]

Why not use Prop instead of Enth, it will require less time to kick in, and works better for cutting cycles

[huhtamanki]

test prop instead? what is everyone elses opinion on this?

[NewMuscle83]

I dnt think ur gonna b too excited about daily pinning for ur first cycle, plus prop causes pain. stick with the test e...there's a reason its everyone's choice for the first few cycles.

[Older lifter]

Yeah would also go Test-e,

Just wanted to add that there is no AI in you stated info. If this is your first cycle and i am guessing that it is (sory if not) you do not know if you are gyno prone, do you have anything if it start's? or are you able to get it quick? Whats your plan there?

[GT2]

70kg and thinking about AAS?
Dude drop that needle and pick up some food.

[WARMachine]

Now adjusted cycle based on all your advice...

Weeks 1 - 12 Test E (500mg p/w Monday and Thursday split 250mg)
Weeks 8 - 12 Stanazol Tabs (350mg p/w split everyday 50mg.. thats 10 tablets per day) (Thats not the best way to run winny. I would run this all the way to PCT and stop its use right before day 1 of PCT.)

Weeks 14-16 Nolvadex (40-50mg every day) (This much Nolva is not needed. 20mgs is fine.)
Weeks 17-19 Nolvadex (20-25mg everyday)

(You need to add an AI. At the very least you need Clomid(which is optional if you get an AI.) )

total calories per day 2400, daily cardio , 4 days per week weights..
approx 200grms protein, 200grms carbs and 40-50grams fats.. per day

(This is not NEARLY enough to grow. I know for a fact if you were on a 4000cal/day diet w/ 300G's of protein you would see tremendous growth.)

My supplements consist of, fish oil tablets, multivitamins, protien powder(with amino acids), creatine, L-glutamine..

Hows this? Anything else to add?

First off. @ 70Kg, you need to gain about 15Kgs before cycling.

I read this title expecting to critique a diet and cycle. You need to post up your diet. Its obviously not a good one being you only weigh 70Kilos. So lets see it. I want to see a FULL meal plan.

Include how much your food weighs and macros for the day. DO NOT FORGET THIS! Include whatever your eating for the day.

EXAMPLES:

Meal 1
8egg whites. 80G's of Oats

Meal 2
6oz of Chicken. 4oz of Brwn rice. 175G's of Lentils.

ETC...

My overall opinon is you need to learn to eat, train, and learn about PCT before beginning a AAS cycle.

You have a LOT to learn. Not to worry though, youre in the correct place.

Check these links out and start with your diet first.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355744
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6
http://www.steroid.com/diet.php

[WARMachine]

And this is what you should be doing...

[Older lifter]

And this is what you should be doing...

This would cover about 90% of those seeking more size.........
Good One

[WARMachine]

I try, i try....

[huhtamanki]

My calories have intentionally been low .. between 1500-1800 calories.. I use to weigh 85 kilos with some good muscle mass.. now I look alot more lean with hard definition of muscle and even though to some 70kilos may seem light I am still not happy with my body fat around lower stomach and love handles.. shouldnt we be more concerned about how I should be eating once on the cycle, rather than how I use to eat?

[huhtamanki]

Here is the diet i am planning on following on the cycle:

Breakfast 9:00am
1 protein shake
2 eggs
15 Almonds
2 tablespoons dried sultanas
2 slices of wholemeal bread
Coffee skim milk 2 sugars
Total: 758 calories, 27.8g Fat, 57.6g Protein, 62.9g carbs

Lunch 12:00pm
1 protein shake
half cup of rice
1/2 chicken breast
1 beef steak fillet
mixed salad
Total: 577 calories, 10.9g Fat,83.6g protein, 33.5g carbs

Snack 3:00pm
1.5 protein shake
1 Medium Bannana
friut yogurt
Total: 417 calories, 5.7g fat, 40.1g protein, 49.3g carbs

Dinner 7:00pm
1 servings chicken breast
1 serving cooked vegies
1 serving salad
Total: 237 calories, 3.9g fat, 30.5g protein, 18.1g carbs

Snack 10:00pm (sames as dinner)
1 servings chicken breast
1 serving cooked vegies
1 serving salad
Total: 237 calories, 3.9g fat, 30.5g protein, 18.1g carbs

Summary for the day:
Calories:2225
Fat:52g (22%)
Protein: 242.3g (45%)
Carbs: 181.9g (34%)

[Flex-Appeal]

i burn that ammount of cals before 11 am everyday
your pisssin in the wind bro
cals are good dude, you need them to grow
if you want to cut something cut sugar or carbs in the PM

[huhtamanki]

as an example
this is the type of look i am trying to achieve

[huhtamanki]

not this look

[WARMachine]

My calories have intentionally been low .. between 1500-1800 calories.. I use to weigh 85 kilos with some good muscle mass.. now I look alot more lean with hard definition of muscle and even though to some 70kilos may seem light I am still not happy with my body fat around lower stomach and love handles.. shouldnt we be more concerned about how I should be eating once on the cycle, rather than how I use to eat?

What youtr failing to realize is, that YOURE ONLY 70kilos!

That guy in the pic you posted easily weighs 180lbs.

And i highly doubt you were in shape at 85 kilos. Especially now that you only weigh 70. Youre telling me you dropped 15k's? Dude, you need to gain.

Before you cut, you should bulk. And before you do ANYTHING, you need to gain LMM without the help of AAS. It is simply not possible for you to peak at 157lbs naturally. Especially if you are taller than 5'5.
But hey, what do i know?

[huhtamanki]

I appreciate your response.. I wont be doing my cycle for atleast another 2 months.. in that time I will try and gain as much Lean muscle mass as possible naturally.. could you give me some recommendations on dieting, food timimg etc aswell.. thank you..

[huhtamanki]

I am also finding alot of information on cardio to be very confusing.. do it in the morning, do it at night, dont do longer that 30 mins .. dont do it at all.. anyone have insight into this issue while on roids..

[WARMachine]

Yeah... Do cardio...

My body type and my goals are not the same as yours bro...

I tend to do more cardio than 90% of the people here simply because of my profession its a must.

But i usually advise cardio 4-5times a week. High intensity 3times a week. 30-45mins a day.

I always advise a warm up jog of 2 miles everyday though i dont consider it cardio training.

And i already gave you diet advice, im telling you, with proper training, and that diet, youll get up to 175-185lbs natural in about 9-12months.

[huhtamanki]

how much calories carbs protein fats would you take to achieve what I am trying to do..

[WARMachine]

Given im 25lbs heavier than your goal. None...

But for your weight, id suggest about 4000cals, 250-300G's of protein a day.

Thats what its gonna take... Im telling you, if you stick to the diet i gave you, (which is 4250 cals, and 300G's of protein), you should achive your goal within a year staying natural.

Given your training in good.

[huhtamanki]

you havent given me a diet yet.. also I just cant comprehend how I can get the look I am after by eating 2000 calories a day over my maintenance.. from what ive been told in the past ive always thought a maximum of 500-750 calories extra per day.. no more.. im no doubting you knowledge Im just trying to learn and understand..

[WARMachine]

you havent given me a diet yet.. also I just cant comprehend how I can get the look I am after by eating 2000 calories a day over my maintenance.. from what ive been told in the past ive always thought a maximum of 500-750 calories extra per day.. no more.. im no doubting you knowledge Im just trying to learn and understand..

Whoops sorry bro... I was looking at another thread and posting on yours...
But relooking your previous post of your diet, i see now how you get 250G's of protein. From my estimate, youre actually only getting maybe 130G's of Protein from actual food. There is your problem right there. Im taking it your shakes are roughly 35G's of protein each? Your last two meals are ok, but those others are horrible.

To answer your question, yeah, in order to grow, you generally need 750cals a day more than your maintenance. But in this particular case, you weigh 70Kilos and are looking to get to 85? Thats 30lbs! Thats a lot of muscle mass my little friend.

You should be eating 4000cals a day and getting 300G's of protein from FOOD! NOT shakes! One a day is fine, but anymore than that is a waste.

Lets put it this way.

You are small. You want to be big. You only get 2000cals. Youre not growing. You are barely maintaining on a crap diet. If you want to grow, change your diet, and eat a substanital amount more.

Small guy + More food = Future Big guy.

Its that simple, if you want, i can lay out a diet that i KNOW for a fact will put size on you. Its med. Carb, High Pro., Low Fat.
About a 35/45/20 split.

Granted, this is a diet that is expensive, hard to do due to the amount youll have to consume, but, it does work.

Ive done one simple Test E/Dbol/Winny cycle since ive been on it, and ive gained 35lbs. I wish i would have started this before my previous cycles. But i found out the hard way that a cycle means nothing without a proper diet.

Here is the diet i am planning on following on the cycle:

Breakfast 9:00am
1 protein shake
2 eggs
15 Almonds
2 tablespoons dried sultanas
2 slices of wholemeal bread
Coffee skim milk 2 sugars
Total: 758 calories, 27.8g Fat, 57.6g Protein, 62.9g carbs

Lunch 12:00pm
1 protein shake
half cup of rice
1/2 chicken breast
1 beef steak fillet
mixed salad
Total: 577 calories, 10.9g Fat,83.6g protein, 33.5g carbs

Snack 3:00pm
1.5 protein shake
1 Medium Bannana
friut yogurt
Total: 417 calories, 5.7g fat, 40.1g protein, 49.3g carbs

Dinner 7:00pm
1 servings chicken breast
1 serving cooked vegies
1 serving salad
Total: 237 calories, 3.9g fat, 30.5g protein, 18.1g carbs

Snack 10:00pm (sames as dinner)
1 servings chicken breast
1 serving cooked vegies
1 serving salad
Total: 237 calories, 3.9g fat, 30.5g protein, 18.1g carbs

Summary for the day:
Calories:2225
Fat:52g (22%)
Protein: 242.3g (45%)
Carbs: 181.9g (34%)