D-bol

**jonnyR** · 11-07-2002, 09:04 PM

Ok guys got some new gear the other day. all i got was dbol but i have a few questions. ok will dbol do anything by itself. alot of people tell me it does nothing unless you take it with other gear. i have it now so im going to take it regardless but i was wondering what to expect? has anyone taken it by itself? I did my reasearch and i know what they say happens and what they say the side effects are but i was trying to get some real imput from people that may have tried it or know what it does? I'm 5.7 160 pounds with a low body fat percent. i was lookin to pack on a few more pounds of muscle. i take lots of protien shakes and eat right so i am hoping this will help put on a little more meat.. some people have told me that a lot of you gains will be from water retention and others say that dbol only helps with your joints so you don't hurt them when you take other gear. 1 more thing has anyone had any sexual problems from dbol. Well any imput on what might happen or what to expect would be greatly appreciated, but im going to take it regardless.

**Bigk** · 11-07-2002, 09:24 PM

I've never done a dbol only cycle, or a cycle at all, but.... I know people who have done dbol only cycles and retained up to 15lbs (after water was gone) Strength still goes up a ton as well. I wouldn't personally do a dbol only cycle, but if that is your only option then you could have some success although it will probably be less than you had hoped.

**sd11** · 11-07-2002, 09:49 PM

IMO you're wasting time and money!

**MBaraso** · 11-07-2002, 09:50 PM

Sounds like you made up your mind already. But I can tell you from experience that you will lose just about everything you gain from a d-bol only cycle. Most of the gain from d-bol is water. When you stop taking it you will lose all your gains, regardless if you take clomid post cycle etc.
Do what you want bro but I'm telling ya that your wasting your time and $....

**youngNhungry** · 11-07-2002, 10:04 PM

Dbol is only worth a rip if you combine it with other substances. You need to choose an injectable that is proven to perform well in combo with dbol. Deca is a famous injectable mixer. Save your money and go the injectable rout

**testman55** · 11-08-2002, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by jonnyR
Ok guys got some new gear the other day. all i got was dbol but i have a few questions. ok will dbol do anything by itself. alot of people tell me it does nothing unless you take it with other gear. i have it now so im going to take it regardless but i was wondering what to expect? has anyone taken it by itself? I did my reasearch and i know what they say happens and what they say the side effects are but i was trying to get some real imput from people that may have tried it or know what it does? I'm 5.7 160 pounds with a low body fat percent. i was lookin to pack on a few more pounds of muscle. i take lots of protien shakes and eat right so i am hoping this will help put on a little more meat.. some people have told me that a lot of you gains will be from water retention and others say that dbol only helps with your joints so you don't hurt them when you take other gear. 1 more thing has anyone had any sexual problems from dbol. Well any imput on what might happen or what to expect would be greatly appreciated, but im going to take it regardless.

Well if you listen to people that say dont do dbol alone than your missing out on this incredible drug. Yes it is possible to lose all your gains post cycle just like its possible to lose with test or deca etc. Bottom line is that a drug is a drug and i guarantee you its the same as doing test by itself. Why? because dbol is a test analog thus the reason why it converts to estrogen. If you dont believe me then do test by itself and then dbol byitself and tell if you see a big difference. guess what you probably wont. However dbol is very fast acting and leaves the system at pretty much the same rate. so when you get off you need to taper off slowly at least over 2 wks time. If you just quit the dbol cold then your body will suffer some serious consequences like sickness/lethargy, no appetite,etc-all the while you watch your gains fly out the window because your body is not use to the sudden androgen drop. So while you taper off you need to get on clomid, arimidex , and/or nolvadex . (all three stimulate hpt and serve as antie's)clomid stimulates the LH side of hpt and a-dex stinulates the fsh side.
This is what I propose that will be in your best interest:

wks 1-8 dbol 35mgs/day
wk 9 dbol 25,25,25,20,20,20,15;
a-dex .5mg/day
wk 10 dbol 15,15,10,10,5,5,5
a-dex .5mg/day
clomid 100mg/day
wk 11 a-dex .5mg/day
clomid 100mg/day
wks 12,13 a-dex .5mg/day

I'm willing to bet that you get around 15-20lbs from this depending on how much calories and protein you consume.

And now your probably thinking that doing dbol for this long can mess up your liver because everyone else says so. well im really sick of that theory because i've done dbol for 3 1/2 mo staight before and never suffered any liver problems. I;ve done accutane for 4 mo straight without any probs. while on accutane i did have monthly blood test for liver values etc. and they were somewhat elevated but normalized after i got off the drug. I mean lifting weights by itself increases liver values but are you gonna stop lifting? my point is that the toxicity of 17aa's is vastly exaggerated. Of course you need to take precaution when taking dbol just like you would any other drug, but doing dbol for 12 wks straight DOES NOT mean you need a new liver. It just means you get more solid gains from 12 wks than your traditional 4-6wks. Take your ALA, milk thistle , cranberry extr. etc and you'll be just fine bro.

**Warrior** · 11-08-2002, 11:20 PM

Ummm... hmmm... does not sound right, "everyone says so" are many steroid gurus as well as the everday users. Personally I will continue to refrain from 10 week d-bol cycles. And I think many others should too.

**testman55** · 11-09-2002, 12:08 AM

Bro the point is that a drug is a drug and it should be taken with proper precautions. take accutane for example. it is very harsh on the liver, but doctors dont prescribe it for just 4 wks do they? no you stay on for months at a time. same thing with prescription oxandrolone. It doesnt matter if its 4wks or 4 mo, your body will normalize no matter what due to homeostasis. everyone has a different level of reactions to drugs but generally speaking 10-12wks dbol is not that much worse than 4wks. Im not trying to be the steroid authority around here and I dont claim to know everything but If you've never done dbol for 10-12 wks and will refrain from it than thats fine with me.

**Warrior** · 11-09-2002, 01:32 AM

"Prolonged exposure to c17 alpha alkylated substances can result in actual damage, possibly even the development of certain kinds of cancer. To be safe one might want to visit the doctor a couple times during each cycle to keep an eye on liver value enzyme values. Cycles should also be kept short, usually less than 8 weeks to avoid doing any noticable damage." Page 77, Anabolics 2002, William Llewellyn

"While oral steroids are generally liver toxic, the reason for the toxicity is not that they're orally absorbed: that has nothing to do with it. They're equally liver toxic when injected. Either way, they are making repeated passes through the live, and will eventually be metabolized and excreted exactly the same number of times by either route. Namely once (unless enterohepatic recycling occurs, in which case it can be more, but toxicity again is equal.)
"No, the reason for the correlation between liver toxicity and oral use is because most oral steroids are 17-alkylated, and that is the cause of the toxicity. Those oral steroids which are not 17-alkylated, e.g. Primobolan and Proviron , are not liver toxic and neither are T-17E or N-17E." Bill Roberts, T-Mag

"... and if there's a difference of one perhaps being a little more liver-toxic than the other per milligram, I don't know which direction that would be in. For practical purposes you can consider them equal I think, with the exception that aromatization of Dianabol gives methylestradiol which can over time lead to hepatic cholestasis, whereas this does not occur with Winstrol . (This effect has nothing to do with 17-alkylation, only with aromatization.)" Bill Roberts, T-Mag

Q: Bill Roberts stated in a previous message that he thought oral winstrol was no more liver toxic than IM. I'm surprised to hear this, and have to admit to being a little skeptical. Bill, if you are out there, can you please confirm that I understand you correctly. And, is this just your personal observation/opinion, or do you have some more substantial evidence to back it up? Thanks.
A: "I don't have lab tests to back it up but it is the same 17-alkylated steroid either way, and the liver still has to metabolize it either way. It's not "being oral" that makes an oral steroid typically toxic -- if it were, Primobolan oral and Proviron would be liver toxic but they are not -- it's being 17-alkylated.

"Also Winstrol is shown in at least one scientific study to be liver toxic in vitro simply from being present in the serum, not from oral use, which simply makes sense. If it has to metabolize the steroid, it has to metabolize it... and the liver *is* going to metabolize every milligram that enters the blood, sooner or later." Bill Roberts, T-Mag

**testman55** · 11-09-2002, 12:31 PM

Lol. I had a feeling you were gonna feed me some excerpts from lewellyn or Roberts. I think your misunderstanding my point here. 17aa’s and there toxicity is no big secret, but so is acetminophen, tetracycline, accutane, alcohol, even lifting weights by itself will elevate sgot (one of the main enzymes in the liver used to break down medications) but you make it seem like dbol is so poisonus and shouldn’t be taken for more than 4wks. Pretty much any drug taken orally will elevate enzymes in the liver but that doesnt mean to go ahead abuse the hell out of them. Also you have to remember that levels of hepatoxicity are dependent on other things like dosages and type of drugs and it also varies on the individualtoo.
If my doctor prescribes me oxandrin should I tell him that I wont take it for more than 4 wks because a steroid guru by the name of William lewellyn told me not to?
I have nothing against lewellyn or Roberts , but to me they are not steroid gods. I will never buy anabolics 2002 because the material on there is nothing new to me. There is nothing in that book that you cant find on the internet.
I’m capable of doing my own research(and I’ve spent a great deal of time doing so) and have come to the conclusion that 17aa’s are vastly exaggerated. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to do 100mg/day yr round.
In the past I did a test/dbol/eq for 12wks and two months later my doc put me on accutane and made me take a routine blood test. Guess what , everything on the test came out normal. I even know of someone that has taken 75mg/dbol ed for yr straight and never had any problems. Do I recommend that? NO. But Im just trying to illustrate my point here.
BOTTOM LINE is if you take precautions when doing 17aa’s by using sane doages, taking your liver protectants(ala, silymarin, evening primrose oil etc.), staying away from alcohol(that goes without saying), and even doing routine blood test so forth, 12wks of dbol is NOT going to pose a serious threat to your liver. (This where my argument lies in bro, not whether 17aa's are toxic or not)

**jonnyR** · 11-09-2002, 07:37 PM

Ok guys thanks for all the help. I think im going to try its like this guy says. I have done my own research and I think most of the points he makes are good. i however do have a few more questions. Will i get bitch tits and how can i stop this if i do. i don't know too much about bitch tits but thats one part that worries me alot. and what was the gear i was supose to take with this to stop water retention? Also is there any side effects on sex drive or do you nuts shrink? well thanks for everything guys especially for taking the time to type those long posts and informing me. any other info will be greatly appreciated.

**testman55** · 11-09-2002, 08:59 PM

Gyno symptoms is pretty much more of an individual basis. Arimidex (anastrozole) will take care of estrogen sides especially water ret. Start out at .5mg everyday of your cycle and if your still retaining water and dont like the look then bump up to 1mg/day. IF you then get gyno symptoms throw in nolvadex at 20-40mg/day and that should take care of all your estrogen sides. one benefit of doing antie's during the cycle is your actually stimulating the hpt to a certain degree by suppressing E. The disadvantage is you gain less weight but at least you know it will be Lean body mass. Good luck and be sure to keep updated because it will open the minds of other people in that dbol by itself is still good shit.