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  1. #1
    MercyDog's Avatar
    MercyDog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    In the hills

    good read for newbies.......

    I understand this is somewhat of a chemistry thread but it also answers alot of questions (injection pain, doses, what to use, injection times, ect.) always being posted here so I thought it may be appropiate, just move if its no good here..........

    by Iron Addict
    Not a week goes by that I don't get personal email questions from people about how to make high mg per ml gear. There are also lots of these posts on the boards so I'm taking a moment to clear a couple of things up.

    1. Most hormones have a pretty low solubility in oil.
    2. The primary ways to increase solubility are to
    A) add solvent (BA or EA).
    B) Add an ester to the hormone. The longer the ester the more hormone will fit in the oil at a certain mg per ml ratio. Conversely, the weight of the ester is also factored in the total mg per ml ratio, so while you can fit more hormone in, you are getting less actual hormone than the mg amount implies. Here are some examples:

    Ester actual mg/100mg dose
    test no ester 100
    tren acetate 87
    test prop 83
    test enanth 72
    test cyp 70
    test undecan 63
    nand phenyl 67
    nand deca 64

    This means that if your test cyp says 200 mgs per ml you get an actual 140 mgs of test. The rest of the weight is the weight of the ester. If that sounds like a bad deal you need to understand that test no ester is VERY insoluble in oil without going to very high mg per ml solvent concentrations.

    This brings up the next point; PAIN!

    Why do some shots hurt? There are two primary reasons. One, the solvent ratio is too high. Anything over about 10% starts to hurt. BA and EA are VERY inflammatory to the tissues. That’s why you want ONLY enough to help your oil hold more gear but not so much that it causes inflammation.

    The second reason is that the gear crystallizes in the depot. This is precisely why water-based suspensions feel like hammer blows. The water is absorbed FAST, leaving the gear to crystallize in the tissues = PAIN. Even gear in oil can do this, here is how it works. If you use a low ester weight attached to your gear and make the mg per ml ratio SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the oil will hold on it's own, what happens is the body absorbs the solvent faster than the oil/gear and the gear falls out of the solution and crystallizes in the depot and WHAM, it hurts like hell. An optimum solution has just enough solvent to get more gear into solution than you could otherwise, but not so much that what I just stated happens. When the ratios are correct the gear holds in the solution UNTIL the whole depot is absorbed and very little or no pain is felt. Just to end this misconception once and for all IT IS NOT THE VOLUME OF THE OIL THAT CUASES THE PAIN, IT IS ONE OF THE CONDITIONS STATED ABOVE. You can shoot 5 cc's of sterile oil and never know you took a shot. It IS NOT HOW MUCH OIL YOU SHOOT! So why does everyone search for super high mg per ml ratio gear like it's the damn holy grail???

    What is too high? Well the length of the ester is really what determines that but most of us here know the gear that hurts and know we know why. All tests over 250 mgs per ml hurt, and actually most of the 250 mg tests hurt too. SOOOO many people want there tren at 150-200 mgs per ml. Tren acetate should be at about what????? 75 mgs per ml. That is why all the kits are designed this way. Do you really think it's cheaper for the kit producers to add MORE oil to their kits instead of less? One other quick note. Oil is used because it SLOWS absorption. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT YOU WANT IN A STEROI* SHOT! Less oil does not promote the steady state hormone levels achieved with more oil.

    Here is the half life of most of the various esters in case anyone was wondering.

    Ester Half-Life
    Formate 1.5 days
    Acetate 3 days
    Propionate 4.5 days
    Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
    Butyrate 6 days
    Valerate 7.5 days
    Hexanoate 9 days
    Caproate 9 days
    Isocaproate 9 days
    Heptanoate 10.5 days
    Enanthate 10.5 days
    Octanoate 12 days
    Cypionate 12 days
    Nonanoate 13.5 days
    Decanoate 15 days
    Undecanoate 16.5 days
    Last edited by MercyDog; 10-27-2008 at 07:00 PM.

  2. #2
    warchild's Avatar
    warchild is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Pescadero State Hospital
    good post

  3. #3
    Older lifter is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Living easy in Asia
    Copied and pasted bro, found that interesting, Thanks and have a good one

  4. #4
    MercyDog's Avatar
    MercyDog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    In the hills
    Copied, pasted, and credited to Iron Addict, whoever he is

  5. #5
    QuadPower's Avatar
    QuadPower is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    First time ever that I got this info... thanks!

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