Lean bulk cycle advice

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 05:39 PM

Cycle:

Weeks 1-15: Test cyp @ 500 mg/wk
Weeks 1-15: EQ @ 600 mg/wk
Weeks 1-4: Dbol @ 30 mg/day

PCT:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 100/100/50/50

So first off I'd like to know if my cycle and pct are looking good. Now my main question is, while on cycle if I get too bloated (dbol) what would be better to combat water, Adex or Nolva? I know Arimidex is more powerful but also destroys estrogen, versus Nolva will leave some circulating in the body. Of course you want as much estrogen as possible circulating to promote more gains, versus gettin rid of it all. So any input on the adex vs nolva for this cycle. Also what doses would you run for them, I'm thinkin adex .5 eod from the start and am unfamiliar with nolva on cycle usage. And with signs of gyno which would be better and what doses?

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 05:45 PM

Forgot to mention, should I be considering proviron at all?

Thanks for all the help

**inky-e** · 11-07-2008, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by tard_zone

Cycle:

Weeks 1-15: Test cyp @ 500 mg/wk
Weeks 1-15: EQ @ 600 mg/wk
Weeks 1-4: Dbol @ 30 mg/day

PCT:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 100/100/50/50

So first off I'd like to know if my cycle and pct are looking good. Now my main question is, while on cycle if I get too bloated (dbol) what would be better to combat water, Adex or Nolva? I know Arimidex is more powerful but also destroys estrogen, versus Nolva will leave some circulating in the body. Of course you want as much estrogen as possible circulating to promote more gains, versus gettin rid of it all. So any input on the adex vs nolva for this cycle. Also what doses would you run for them, I'm thinkin adex .5 eod from the start and am unfamiliar with nolva on cycle usage. And with signs of gyno which would be better and what doses?

I like adex while "ON" only when signs of gyno appear....I also like it in PCT along with nolva...its what I've done in the past and has worked for me.. Not a big fan of clomid. Everyone reacts differently..for me when I felt weirdness in my nips or pecs I'd take one .25 tab and it usually did the trick.

**WARMachine** · 11-07-2008, 06:34 PM

Weeks 1-15: Test cyp @ 500 mg/wk
Weeks 1-15: EQ @ 600 mg/wk
Weeks 1-4: Dbol @ 30 mg/day

PCT:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 100/100/50/50

Thats too much Clomid IMO.

Id cut it to
50/50/25/25.

Thats not what i would think is a lean bulk cycle, but to eachs own.

If you provide some stats ill have some different imput about a cycle.

Other wise it looks fine.

I dont agree with Nolva on cycle. It seems there is no point to risk losing gains when you can simply run an AI thoughout the cycle to control estrogen.

If estrogen is controlled from the beginning of your cycle, there will be no worry for gyno to appear.

I like .25mgs ED, but .5mgs EOD is fine as well.

Adex normally isnt used in PCT because Nolvadex reduces the effectiveness of Adex. Which is not a big deal if you up the dose of Adex.

IMO, a good PCT will include Nolva + Aromasin or Proviron + hCG (Which is overkill for this cycle.)

Here what i would do.

Nolva - 20/20/20/20
Clomid - 50/50/25/25
Aromasin - 25/25/25/25

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

Thats not what i would think is a lean bulk cycle, but to eachs own.

Yea I know its not really a lean bulk cycle, but its gona be leaner than doin test/deca /dbol . I want EQ cause it is a leaner type of steroid but I wanted to try dbol cause I've never tried it i know OT would be better sub for dbol for lean bulk but I wont mind the 4 weeks of dbol, haha. So what you guys recommend is wait until water ret is unbearable or gyno starts before starting adex while on cycle? Then when you start adex on cycle (due to gyno/too much bloat) do you go throughout or until sides go down then stop again? Also I mean .25 adex EOD not .5 EOD.

**WARMachine** · 11-07-2008, 07:40 PM

No thats not what i recommend at all!

If you wait to start to see signs of gyno, Adex will not help you get rid of it.

Nolva would be the answer in that case.

Im saying you should start Adex from the beginning of your cycle. In some cases people begin taking it about a week before they begin their cycle to get their estrogen levels low beforehand.

So, like i said, Adex from the beginning, or Nolva once sides appear.

One or the other...

Just keep in mind that if you do get gyno, the only way to get rid of it is a gyno reversal, and if that doesnt work, youll have to have surgery.

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 08:07 PM

Alright sounds good. Sorry I misread it, im half awake right now. The a-dex way seems to be a better way to do it, but will it hinder gains tremendously?? Also should I do .25 a day or eod If I do it from the get go?

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 08:10 PM

Also I've had gyno naturally once and had it surgically removed but it was only on one side so I still have a chance to get on the other side. And I DO NOT want that surgery done, little scar and lots of down time.

**WARMachine** · 11-07-2008, 08:14 PM

Adex doesnt hinder gains in my experience. Nolva on the other hand, while on cycle does.

If you are doing Adex, go .25mgs ED or .5mgs EOD. Either is fine, i prefer .25mgs ED.

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

Adex doesnt hinder gains in my experience. Nolva on the other hand, while on cycle does.

If you are doing Adex, go .25mgs ED or .5mgs EOD. Either is fine, i prefer .25mgs ED.

Thanks for the help man, so as long as that cycle looked good and all I add is .25 mg ED then I'm ready to start for next week. I thought since a-dex reduces estrogen in the body and estrogen levels on cycle are responsible for muscle size and strength along side with joint alleviation, I figured if you were removing estrogen with a-dex that you would reduce those effects therefore will have slower muscle gains.

**Mulciber** · 11-07-2008, 08:30 PM

you are limiting the conversion of test to estrogen but not eliminating estrogen all together..
goal here is to try to keep estrogen levels in normal range..

**WARMachine** · 11-07-2008, 08:38 PM

^^ yep!

**mx3** · 11-07-2008, 08:52 PM

short esters would be a better fit for a lean bulk then you dont have to worry about bloat.

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mulciber

you are limiting the conversion of test to estrogen but not eliminating estrogen all together..
goal here is to try to keep estrogen levels in normal range..

I know that I am limiting the conversion of test to estrogen but when the estrogen levels are taking down do you not limit possible gains? I've read this many times and believe its true but am still going to use adex.

So do I use A-dex on day 1 when I start takin d-bol?

**tard_zone** · 11-07-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by mx3

short esters would be a better fit for a lean bulk then you dont have to worry about bloat.

How would an ester change the amount of bloat? Doesn't it just change the length of release. Test Prop and test cyp are both test but prop will kick in faster but with the same characteristics as cyp. Same with tren enth and tren ace, all you changing is release times not changing the steroid itself. Is this not correct?

**Schmidty** · 11-07-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by tard_zone

Cycle:

Weeks 1-15: Test cyp @ 500 mg/wk
Weeks 1-15: EQ @ 600 mg/wk
Weeks 1-4: Dbol @ 30 mg/day

PCT:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 100/100/50/50

So first off I'd like to know if my cycle and pct are looking good. Now my main question is, while on cycle if I get too bloated (dbol) what would be better to combat water, Adex or Nolva? I know Arimidex is more powerful but also destroys estrogen, versus Nolva will leave some circulating in the body. Of course you want as much estrogen as possible circulating to promote more gains, versus gettin rid of it all. So any input on the adex vs nolva for this cycle. Also what doses would you run for them, I'm thinkin adex .5 eod from the start and am unfamiliar with nolva on cycle usage. And with signs of gyno which would be better and what doses?

I doubt u will get much water retention at all from that cycle. It all looks good and yeah i like provirion a lot especially if u got a new broad

**mx3** · 11-08-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by tard_zone

How would an ester change the amount of bloat? Doesn't it just change the length of release. Test Prop and test cyp are both test but prop will kick in faster but with the same characteristics as cyp. Same with tren enth and tren ace, all you changing is release times not changing the steroid itself. Is this not correct?

short esters dont cause alot of bloat like long esters do. if your telling me that prop will cause the same amount of bloat that cyp does than you have not had much experience. The compound is the still the same but the ester can change certain sides you get(like bloat). if you were using short esters you will experience virtually no boat. Even with an ai you will still pry get some bloat from the cycle you are proposing. I have used adex many times to control bloat and im telling you right now that running test e/c and dbol adex will not control all of the bloat. It helps but its not fail safe. my point is that short esters are better suited for a lean bulk if your really worried about getting bloated out, the cycle your proposing is still ok for a lean bulk cause it mainly comes down to diet but you will still see some water retention.