JANUARY CYCLE -- Got a few questions, and need a little advice

[dd0316]

Hey guys

Before you guys ask
here are my stats

Age: 22
Weight: 172
Height: 5'9
BF: 9-11%
only cycle experience was m1t, which was great, except all the amazing sides..haha...10lbs, and a disaster of psychological and libido effects

This is the cycle i am trying to plan for january, but would like some input and suggestions as i feel i am a week recoverer in terms of LIBIDO as it took me a month an a half after m1t, to fully come back and i did a full PCT, of clomid and nolva..
So without further waiting

here is what i wanna do


Week 1-4 Dbol at 30/40mg a day. someone help me on this????????
Week 1-12 Test E at 500mg, split into 2 injections e3d..or all in one????

Here is where i need your advice the most...
as i feel i may recover slower than others...my pct i feel is MOST critical and i would like to make sure it is perfect.

i would preferally like to avoid clomid as well, ....i am also woried about on cycle gyno...maybe something to take care of this 2???


So input would be appreciated, Im thinking HCG aromasin , nolva? Or letro too?


Ok thanks for looking


Cheers

[illwillogical]

Hey guys

Before you guys ask
here are my stats

Age: 22
Weight: 172
Height: 5'9
BF: 9-11%
only cycle experience was m1t, which was great, except all the amazing sides..haha...10lbs, and a disaster of psychological and libido effects

This is the cycle i am trying to plan for january, but would like some input and suggestions as i feel i am a week recoverer in terms of LIBIDO as it took me a month an a half after m1t, to fully come back and i did a full PCT, of clomid and nolva..
So without further waiting

here is what i wanna do


Week 1-4 Dbol at 30/40mg a day. someone help me on this????????
Week 1-12 Test E at 500mg, split into 2 injections e3d..or all in one????

Here is where i need your advice the most...
as i feel i may recover slower than others...my pct i feel is MOST critical and i would like to make sure it is perfect.

i would preferally like to avoid clomid as well, ....i am also woried about on cycle gyno...maybe something to take care of this 2???


So input would be appreciated, Im thinking HCG aromasin , nolva? Or letro too?


Ok thanks for looking


Cheers

Just to let you know a shit ton of people are going to flame you on here and say you are too young and too small and can gain more naturally. Some of these guys just want to act like they know something, and some of them are genuine about their concerns. With that said I think you are full grown, and a cycle is not going to kill you. I am currently running the cycle that you are with the Dbol 30 mg a day and 250 Test E twice a week. I plan on running Pheedno's PCT which if you go to the PCT forum you will find it, it consist's of Nolva, Clomid, Arimidex . I know you are wanting to avoid the Clomid, and I have heard of Nolva and aromasin PCT's. Just go to the PCT forum and you will find all kinds of different theories on PCT. As for avoiding gyno, I have been reading a lot of people run Arimidex while on cycle. Hope this helps, and good luck!

[rhino1]

Test E 500mg/wk x 12-14 looks good Inject Mon/Thur or Tues/Fri
Dbol 40mg ed x 4wks

Run Nolva and A-dex pct....maybe add proviron if you can find it 50mg ed

All should be well....dont take nolva or adex during cycle unless necessary...then maybe .25mg adex/day

PH are nortorious for really screwing a guy up....just stay away from them all together...

Eat big, eat clean, work hard... and you'll put on a good 25lbs and keep 20 if you pct correctly along with diet/cardio and weights...

Maybe add clen during PCT

[dd0316]

Thanks for the advice, and im glad to have someone who is actually running this reply...

do you have any notes about what is happeneing with your cycle? advice you can offer wtih the cycle? goods bads etc???

I am full grown, i stopped growing upwards at about 17, been the same height exactly and same shoe size since then..

anyways anyone else have some answers to my quetsions?

[rhino1]

Just to let you know a shit ton of people are going to flame you on here and say you are too young and too small and can gain more naturally. Some of these guys just want to act like they know something, and some of them are genuine about their concerns. With that said I think you are full grown, and a cycle is not going to kill you. I am currently running the cycle that you are with the Dbol 30 mg a day and 250 Test E twice a week. I plan on running Pheedno's PCT which if you go to the PCT forum you will find it, it consist's of Nolva, Clomid, Arimidex. I know you are wanting to avoid the Clomid, and I have heard of Nolva and aromasin PCT's. Just go to the PCT forum and you will find all kinds of different theories on PCT. As for avoiding gyno, I have been reading a lot of people run Arimidex while on cycle. Hope this helps, and good luck!

No flaming here...but he is NOT full grown...and it seems like are not full grown either...

[rhino1]

Thanks for the advice, and im glad to have someone who is actually running this reply...

do you have any notes about what is happeneing with your cycle? advice you can offer wtih the cycle? goods bads etc???

I am full grown, i stopped growing upwards at about 17, been the same height exactly and same shoe size since then..

anyways anyone else have some answers to my quetsions?

You may think you are full grown but your frame would allow 20 more lbs naturally if you tweeked your diet and training perfectly...

But I still agree that it is ok for you to procede with your cycle...

[dd0316]

Test E 500mg/wk x 12-14 looks good Inject Mon/Thur or Tues/Fri
Dbol 40mg ed x 4wks

Run Nolva and A-dex pct....maybe add proviron if you can find it 50mg ed

All should be well....dont take nolva or adex during cycle unless necessary...then maybe .25mg adex/day

PH are nortorious for really screwing a guy up....just stay away from them all together...

Eat big, eat clean, work hard... and you'll put on a good 25lbs and keep 20 if you pct correctly along with diet/cardio and weights...

Maybe add clen during PCT

Ok that sounds good,
But what about HCG for the PCT considering i feel i may not recovery properly.

Im currently strict on the Bulking diet, the sample posted in the nutrion forum, just a little modified for my tastes and body size...

but like i said...am i ok on the PCT for just armidex and nolva?? and for the dbol 40 over 30?? big difference? liver stress?

[rhino1]

yes...the compounds you are running, in comparrison, are not going to shut you down as bad as with others....

This is a modest cycle that is perfect for a novice...diet, exercise, and pct dosages are all essential in nut recovery...

[dd0316]

and if i wanted to run HCG just for shits and giggles because im concerned....whats the protocall with this being a light cycle?

[Phate]

how big are your arms/legs/calves, circumference wise?

and post your tweeked diet for critique

[dd0316]

slash this is a recap i guess...correct me if im wrong...but does this look better

1-4 DBOL 40mg/day
1-12 TEST E 500mg /Week
14-17 Nolva at 20mg/ day a.dex@ .25mg/day

[illwillogical]

Ok that sounds good,
But what about HCG for the PCT considering i feel i may not recovery properly.

Im currently strict on the Bulking diet, the sample posted in the nutrion forum, just a little modified for my tastes and body size...

but like i said...am i ok on the PCT for just armidex and nolva?? and for the dbol 40 over 30?? big difference? liver stress?

This is my first cycle, I have been doing reseach for about a year, I am not an expert. I agree with the guy above that you can grow more naturally, but you want to grow supernaturally! This is my first week of the cycle actually, most people recommend not to even run Dbol for the first cycle, but I took the risk, so far no sides, I don't know if its too early, and everyones body is different. But I chose the 30 mg Dbol dose because it was about the middle of the road for Dbol doses I had heard of people running. I am getting some bloat from the Dbol, I have gained 5lbs which I am sure is all water weight, but no strength gains, but its still very early.

[dd0316]

how big are your arms/legs/calves, circumference wise?

and post your tweeked diet for critique

I've Never mesaured

My main difference to the diet in the bulking forum is that i dont used ground beef, i subsitute steak a lot, and i use a weight gainer protein shake...


other than that, its pretty close, some days its hard to get everything in, but im pretty consistent with it....

[rhino1]

judging by the pic...he will do pretty good...

Next cycle you should run a short esthered stack

[dd0316]

judging by the pic...he will do pretty good...

Next cycle you should run a short esthered stack

haha thanks

but i gotta get through this 1 first...im starting january 2nd, after new years so i can have my last drink before cycle..haha...

im just trying to finish my research so i can order everything....

no consensus on the HCG ?

[Phate]

my question seemed off the wall i know, just wondering cause you are about an inch or so taller than me and 30lbs lighter, but your arms are only a little bit smaller than mine from the pic, granted my legs easily overpower my upper body

i just wanted to see how your body was proportioned and arms vs. calves are a semi reliable measurement depending on genetics

anyway, if you want any help with diet or whatever just ask

[Mulciber]

what problems did you have with the clomid..what dose.
personally think the pct is a little weak.
cycle looks fine..
i like to run an AI the entire way.

[rhino1]

This is my first week of the cycle actually, most people recommend not to even run Dbol for the first cycle, but I took the risk, so far no sides, I don't know if its too early, and everyones body is different.

You are talking like your fvcking james bond..."i took the risk"

DUDE....yes dbol is liver toxic(it technically damages your liver)....you will hurt your total liver capacity like 1/100 of 1% of which 100% will regenerate...

You could run dbol, methyl tren , var, drol, oral winny all simutaneously for 10 weeks at high doses and your liver would still recover 100% provided you took a good while off, did not drink alcohol, or have pre-existing liver problems....

The human liver is the TOUGHEST mo-fo in your body...RELAX

[dd0316]

could i run m1t 4 2 weeks before this to giver a quick pre-go
i gained 10solid pounds of 10 weeks at 20mg/day.... and kept all my strength

just asking after what u said about the liver...sounds like a great mofo! lol

[dd0316]

like im talking about starting the m1t in a week after i dose up on my thistle and hawthorn
so i would be finished it by december, have december to recover and start in january..considering its only 2 week cycle

[Phate]

could i run m1t 4 2 weeks before this to giver a quick pre-go
i gained 10solid pounds of 10 weeks at 20mg/day.... and kept all my strength

just asking after what u said about the liver...sounds like a great mofo! lol

why run m1t when you can run the real stuff, here are some options

1) frontload test
2) run an oral
3) run a prop/suspension kickstart

[dd0316]

my question seemed off the wall i know, just wondering cause you are about an inch or so taller than me and 30lbs lighter, but your arms are only a little bit smaller than mine from the pic, granted my legs easily overpower my upper body

i just wanted to see how your body was proportioned and arms vs. calves are a semi reliable measurement depending on genetics

anyway, if you want any help with diet or whatever just ask

i appreciate that.... my back is my strongest part of my body...i just have naturally large arms...like when i started training, i had 15 inch arms....to begin with, with like 10% body fat...

but im pretty proportioned... i train everything equally,

[Phate]

like im talking about starting the m1t in a week after i dose up on my thistle and hawthorn
so i would be finished it by december, have december to recover and start in january..considering its only 2 week cycle

i get what you are saying, and i wouldn't, PH are VERY tough on your body, much more so than the real stuff

[rhino1]

M1T is B u l l S h i T

thats like saying....id rather use a bowflex over a incline dumbbell bench..."it just gets my pecs a burnin'!

Or maybe even like picking richard simmons as a trainer over ronnie coleman

[dd0316]

what problems did you have with the clomid..what dose.
personally think the pct is a little weak.
cycle looks fine..
i like to run an AI the entire way.

i was psycholigcally f ucked, and having SERIOUS nightmares, now i know all u guys r gonna say ohh tough it up...but not having a good dream for a month and waking up in a sweat every night was not good...

and i talked to some ppl and they said clomid is known to do that...so i wanna avoid it

[Phate]

i appreciate that.... my back is my strongest part of my body...i just have naturally large arms...like when i started training, i had 15 inch arms....to begin with, with like 10% body fat...

but im pretty proportioned... i train everything equally,

i understand, my back is my strongest too and probably my best asset, for ex. i can deadlift 505 but have trouble with 455 on squat, weird i know but oh well

[Mulciber]

not a fan of m1t.. tried it years ago..made me tired, quite slugish.. m1t also does a number on lipid profile.

[dd0316]

i understand, my back is my strongest too and probably my best asset, for ex. i can deadlift 505 but have trouble with 455 on squat, weird i know but oh well

no not at all
im deadlifting 495 for 3 reps... but i can squat atf for 315 for 1 or 2 reps...NOW THAT IS WEIRD

[Phate]

no not at all
im deadlifting 495 for 3 reps... but i can squat atf for 315 for 1 or 2 reps...NOW THAT IS WEIRD

well if you were powerlifting i would say to work legs twice a week on cycle, but i doubt you care how much you can squat so hell with it, lol

[rhino1]

no not at all
im deadlifting 495 for 3 reps... but i can squat atf for 315 for 1 or 2 reps...NOW THAT IS WEIRD

I dont usually do any weight that I cant do at least 8 reps...

Benched 365 for 8 3 days ago...my ligaments ache just thinking about it

[dd0316]

well if you were powerlifting i would say to work legs twice a week on cycle, but i doubt you care how much you can squat so hell with it, lol

HAHAHAHA EXACTLY... SMART MAN!
i threw up an avatar of my back for you....
its black and white cause i was pasty as can be...and i cant been seen like that...
haha

[Phate]

I dont usually do any weight that I cant do at least 8 reps...

Benched 365 for 8 3 days ago...

nice, i don't think i could even get that for 1

i never do bench, mostly dumbell or dips, and by now i bet i can do more with dumbells then i can with a bar, and i can definitely do with dips then i can bench

[dd0316]

I dont usually do any weight that I cant do at least 8 reps...

Benched 365 for 8 3 days ago...my ligaments ache just thinking about it

wow
good stuff!

[Phate]

HAHAHAHA EXACTLY... SMART MAN!
i threw up an avatar of my back for you....
its black and white cause i was pasty as can be...and i cant been seen like that...
haha

not bad at all, nice and wide, i would work on traps and medial/anterior delts for wideness at the top to parallel the wideness from your lats and give the illusion of a smaller waist

[dd0316]

OK SO LAST QUESTIONS

pct correction

i have
20mg nolva, .25mg adex,

i wanna add HCG ...help a brother out?

[rhino1]

465 for 3 at 224lbs

But im thinking of dropping bench all together....Incline seems to give me the most chest mass...my shoulders just hurt with flat bench

[rhino1]

OK SO LAST QUESTIONS

pct correction

i have
20mg nolva, .25mg adex,

i wanna add HCG...help a brother out?

then do it...last 3 wks of cycle and 1st 3 wks of PCT....i think 2000/wk...or is it 2000 2x/wk...phate help me out....

[Phate]

1)What is HCG ?
Hcg stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin .

2)Where does hcg come from?
It is extracted from the urine of pregnant women.

3)Is hcg a scheduled medication?
No, its similar to clomid and liquidex as far as US laws go. However you would need a prescription to purchase legally in the US.

4)What is hcg normally used for?
It is used to help females get pregnant, and can be used to stimulate testosterone production in males.

5)How does hcg work?
Hcg mimics LH(leutenizing hormone). The presence of LH causes the Leydig cells in the gonads to produce testosterone. This effect also restores the size of the testes rather quickly if they were suppressed from a cycle.

6)What should hcg be used for?
Hcg is commonly used by bodybuilders on either very heavy or very long cycles, when the hpta gets severely suppressed. Although hcg can be used in almost any cycle, the benefits are most pronounced on heavy/long ones.

7)How do you take it?
You can take it IM or Sub-q.

8)Can I use hcg only for Pct?
No you shouldn't. It is better than nothing, but clomid or nolva are far better plans. Since hcg mimics lh, your body wont begin producing its own lh, as it sees no need to because test levels are high. You stop the hcg, your balls stop making test until your body begins producing adequate levels of its own lh, and that may take a while if you don't use clomid or nolvadex to stimulate lh production. The use of Clomid or Nolvadex should also be continued at least 2 weeks after hcg is discontinued to avoid the hcg causing problems.

9)Can I use hcg during cycle and when?
Yes you can, imo to best benefit from Hcg is to run it by the last 3-4 weeks of your steroid cycle. Do not run hcg if your getting signs of gyno, hcg will make it worst, so becarful.

10)How much Hcg is needed during cycle and/or pct?
For pct a minimum of 10,000iu's hcg is needed. When you have a proper pct planned with a serm and an AI, and you want to run hcg during the last 4 weeks of your cycle, then you might only need 5,000iu's.
An anti-estrogen (Nolva, etc.) is to be used with hcg during your last 4 weeks of cycle.

11)What dose do you run hcg at?
Hcg is best dosed at 500iu and/or 1000iu, more than that can cause too much aromatization, and some people wont react to less than 500iu. So during the last 4 weeks of a cycle, you shoot 500iu of hcg twice a week or 1000iu once a week. For pct, 500iu ed or 1000iu eod.

12)Can hcg be used w/out steroids to boost test production above baseline?
Yes. It is not recommended however. Continued use of hcg will desensitize the leydig cells to lh, meaning once you stop using the hcg as an artificial lh, you will crash bad. The natural lh production once restored by using nolvadex or clomid, may not be as effective as it once was. To boost natural test above baseline, anastrozole, nolvadex and clomid are better choices.


13)How long does hcg boost testosterone for?
Hcg can boost testosterone for up to 5 days following the last dose, although the drugs halflife is very short, and its no longer active at that point.

14)Can hcg cause gyno?
Yes. Estrogen is elevated by two ways from hcg use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly hcg can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatize such as liquidex/arimidex /letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the hpta during hcg therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy.

15)How does hcg come packaged?
You get 2 vials or amps, 1 has the powdered hcg in it, and the other has a diluent in it(solvent). The diluent is typically bacteriostatic water, or sterile water w/ .09% sodium chloride. ***ending on the brand and version, the package commonly comes w/ enough diluent to make concentrations ranging from 250-10,000iu per ml.

If your package is 5000iu, and you add 1ml diluent, you have 5000iu per ml.
If you add 5ml diluent, you final mix is then 1000iu per ml.
If you add 10ml diluent, then 500iu per ml and so on.

This is simple math, and you don't wanna screw it up, know what dose you are taking!

If your package doesn't include enough diluent to make the concentration you want, you have 2 options to make it easy to accurately measure your doses.

1-buy some insulin syringes, U-100 type. On the graduated markings, the 100iu mark is equal to 1ml, the 50iu is .5ml etc. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IF YOU FILL IT TO THE 100IU MARK THAT YOU ARE TAKING 100IU OF HCG! Iu's are not a measurement of volume or weight, they are a measure of effectiveness for a desired response from specific drugs/compounds. Every compound is different. These are insulin syringes, and they are made for insulin-not hcg. Insulin is the same iu concentration per ml everytime(if its u100 type), hcg is not. Imagine if you made your hcg 10,000iu per ml. if you fill the insulin syringe up to 100iu mark, you now have 10,000iu in there! Not good. You must understand this.
So if you had 5000iu per ml, and wanted to take a 500iu shot, you would inject 10iu on the insulin syringe scale.

2-buy some bacteriostatic water off the internet, its easily found. Simply add more to dilute it to the desired conscentration. Making lower concentrations are easier and more accurately dosed. Then it can accurately be measured w/ a regular syringe.

Mix the two together, they dissolve very easily. Hcg can be very unstable and to make sure to not shake it and let it foam.... Be careful when reconsituting it . Be gentle and run the bac water down the side of the vial not allowing to foam up... Keep things sterile folks. Unused hcg can be refrigerated and is ok to use within 30 days after the initial mixing.

Remember: Store hcg at controlled room temperature (59° to 86°F)(15° to 30°C). After reconstituting store in refrigerator (36° to 46°F) (2° to 8°C).

Absorption
A detectable rise in hcg is seen in 2 h; peak levels are reached in 6 h and remain at this level for 36 h.

Elimination
hcg levels begin to decline at 48 h and approach baseline at 72 h.

[rhino1]

well there you go...

[Phate]

then do it...last 3 wks of cycle and 1st 3 wks of PCT....i think 2000/wk...or is it 2000 2x/wk...phate help me out....

depends on the cycle, i think that a minimum dose would be good here as the cycle is basic