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  1. #1
    MadHatter973's Avatar
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    First Cycle Questions

    Hello everyone. I am about to start my first cycle, and I have some questions. I have read many threads in the forum as well as others but I'm still looking for a little more clarification so I can be sure I get the most from my first cycle.

    I was originally thinking about doing a Test E/Deca stack... but after some research I think its better to start out with just Test E to see how my body reacts. Is 600mg per week for 10 weeks too much for my first cycle?

    I'm also concerned about losing most of my gains after my cycle is over. I have been told by some friends who use gear that taking Clomiphene after my cycle will prevent me from losing ALL my gains (I know its impossible to keep every pound you gain). Is there any truth to this Clomiphene theory?

    And lastly, I also plan on having some Nolvadex on hand in case of Gyno... I have also read that 30mg per day would suffice for Nolva. Anybody have any conflicting information?

    I really appreciate any information that anyone could give me. I know these are newbe questions, and I apologize in advance.

    -MH-

  2. #2
    WARMachine's Avatar
    WARMachine is offline Post Cycle Extraordinaire~GOT PCT?
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    First off bro, welcome to AR.

    Secondly, lets get some stats from you.

    age
    height
    weight
    bf%
    diet summary/# meals per day
    years lifting / workout split
    cycle experience
    pct/estrogen control knowledge
    goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

    What your buddys are talking about is taking Clomid for PCT.

    PCT = Post Cycle Therpy

    Its used to help restore your HPTA quickly, and get your body to begin producing Test again.

    Its other purpose is to help you keep you gains.

    Now Clomid is not enough for a PCT, but if you were to add the Nolva to it, then it would suffice.

    Nolvadex is the cornerstone of ANY good PCT.


    It seems youve done some research, but you need to learn about PCT before you begin a cycle. You also should read up on estrogen control while on cycle.

    Some old school guys still prefer Nolva on cycle to combat gyno, but IMO the use of an AI is much better. They too can be included in PCT.

    Check out these links and get back to me.

    Drummerboys PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198848

    Test Beginner Cycle Guide
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742

    Steroid Profiles
    http://www.steroid.com/drugprof.php

    Again, welcome to AR!!

    -WAR

  3. #3
    MadHatter973's Avatar
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    thanks for your reply war. here are my stats:


    Age: 22
    Height: 5'10"
    Weight: 186 (as of this morning)
    BF%: To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure.
    Diet/# Of Meals: I try to eat about 6 small meals every day. I try to stay around 250g of protein daily and close to 2000 calories. WHAT I eat varies on my mood. But I always get at least 2 or 3 protein shakes daily. I dont drink alcohol in excess, just a beer here and there at dinner and such.
    Years Lifting: In total, I have been working out for about 6 1/2 years, but I've been taking it seriously for about 3.
    Workout Split: Monday - Chest(Heavy)/Triceps/Abs Tuesday - Back(Heavy)/Biceps/Traps Wednesday - Legs/Delts/Abs Thursday - Chest(Light) Friday - Back(Light)/Abs Saturday - Biceps(Heavy)/Triceps(Heavy)
    PCS/Est. Control Knowledge: Apparently I don't know enough But I've done quite a bit of reading
    Goals: I'm already pretty cut, but more wouldn't hurt. And of course I'm looking for Size & Strength

    I hope I didn't forget anything.

  4. #4
    breakbones's Avatar
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    Wait till you're 25 for AAS, you have a good amount of test. Try the diet section

  5. #5
    MadHatter973's Avatar
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    Thanks Breakbones, but I'm pretty comfortable with my decision to start a cycle. I was just here looking for some answers beforehand.

  6. #6
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    wk 1-12 500 or 600mg/wk test E (shoot every 3.5 days)

    wk 14 start pct

    read the pct protocol for that

  7. #7
    WARMachine's Avatar
    WARMachine is offline Post Cycle Extraordinaire~GOT PCT?
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    Have you read the links i provided?

    And a guesstimate on the BF% would be helpful.

    15%? 10%? 5%?

  8. #8
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    War: Yes I read the articles last night and they provided some clear info. Gonna give them another read tonight. I checked my body fat at the gym today and I'm at 9%.

    Chuck: Thanks. Thats along the lines of some of the info I was looking for. I had already mapped out a cycle of that sort through the reading I did last night, but you just put the nail in the coffin. Very much appreciated.
    Last edited by MadHatter973; 11-19-2008 at 04:21 PM.

  9. #9
    Mulciber is offline Scammer
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    i use both clomid and nolvadex for pct.. if i had to choose one it would be clomid.
    but both together is the way to go imo.

    might check out pheednos pct as well..believe its a sticky in the pct forum.. will help explain things as well.. but as said many times there are many pct protocols.. read and learn all you can and decide what you think is best.. ive tried many to figure out what works best for me..

  10. #10
    WARMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulciber View Post
    i use both clomid and nolvadex for pct.. if i had to choose one it would be clomid.
    but both together is the way to go imo.

    might check out pheednos pct as well..believe its a sticky in the pct forum.. will help explain things as well.. but as said many times there are many pct protocols.. read and learn all you can and decide what you think is best.. ive tried many to figure out what works best for me..
    Good advice... Though i think Nolva is better than Clomid...

  11. #11
    MadHatter973's Avatar
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    I can use both of them together right? I'm sure there isnt such a thing as TOO MUCH PCT is there? I would of course like to keep as many of my gains as possible while minimizing side effects at the same time. I have both Clomid & Nolva readily available so wouldn't be any trouble to get both.

    As I'm reading into PCT (Clomid especially), I've gotten two different dosage suggestions. According to Drummerboy's PCT guide he says 100mg daily should suffice. But I've also read its good to pyramid the Clomid. Day 1: 300mg, Day 2-11: 100mg daily, and Day 12-21: 50mg daily. Any conflicting info? Everything I've seen on Nolva seems pretty consistant at 20mg daily.
    Last edited by MadHatter973; 11-19-2008 at 04:36 PM.

  12. #12
    WARMachine's Avatar
    WARMachine is offline Post Cycle Extraordinaire~GOT PCT?
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    The best way to keep your gains is a good PCT and continued diet bro...

    Keep on reading, you need to learn as much as possible...

    You'll be ready soon enough.

    Come back with a proposed Cycle and PCT and ill give you some more help.

  13. #13
    redz's Avatar
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    Not to be a dick but I would love to see your diet that has 250g of protein and only 2000 cals.

  14. #14
    WARMachine's Avatar
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    ^^ Actually thats a good point...


    Lets see it MH, lay it out.

    Include everything, how much the food weighs, macros etc...

  15. #15
    MadHatter973's Avatar
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    The cycle I've worked out is as follows:


    Week 1-12: 600mg of Test E (Injection days Monday AM & Thursday PM)


    • PCT to begin week 14.


    PCT
    Day1: 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 2-11: 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 12-21: 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 22-30: 20mg Nolva

    I may have underestimated my diet at 250g Protein/2000 Cals. I was just taking a semi-educated guess last night. I can map out everything I eat all day tomorrow and post a more accurate diet structure. Sorry for jumping the gun.

    -MH-

  16. #16
    Mulciber is offline Scammer
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    i use to use that pct protocol years ago.. the 300mg the first day is a bitch.. now i prefer 100mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex .30 days. some like to run the clomid lower or drop it to 50 the second 2 weeks.. i also take it at night to sleep through some of the possible sides.. makes me tired anyways..helps me sleep.. another added bonus..

  17. #17
    WARMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter973 View Post
    The cycle I've worked out is as follows:


    Week 1-12: 600mg of Test E (Injection days Monday AM & Thursday PM)


    • PCT to begin week 14.


    PCT
    Day1: 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 2-11: 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 12-21: 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 22-30: 20mg Nolva

    I may have underestimated my diet at 250g Protein/2000 Cals. I was just taking a semi-educated guess last night. I can map out everything I eat all day tomorrow and post a more accurate diet structure. Sorry for jumping the gun.

    -MH-

    Sadly a lot of the PCT stickies are outdated.

    Many people who take Clomid at doses between 100-300 get terrible side effects.

    IMO anything more than 100mgs is overkill.

    Personally i use no more than 50mgs

    Nolva - 20/20/20/20
    Clomid - 50/50/25/25

    Thats what i use...


    Now onto the main problem, which is obviously your diet...

    Lets see it MH, lay it out.

    Include everything, how much the food weighs, macros etc...

  18. #18
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    War, thanks alot man your really helping me tremendously. As is everybody else. I'll get back you to ASAP with a sample diet from tomorrow. Thanks again.

    -MH-

  19. #19
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    Hey War. Sorry I wasn't able to post yesterday I was tied up at work all day long. Here is what I ate all day yesterday.

    Breakfast (8:00am)
    • Scrambled Eggs (5 Whites & 1/2 Yolk)
    • 2 Slices Wheat Toast w/ about a 1 TBSP Peanut Butter
    • 1/2 Cup Oatmeal (Measured Dry)


    Pre-Workout (10:00am)
    • 1 Medium Banana
    • 2 Dozen Large Grapes
    • 1/2 Dozen Ritz Crackers
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)


    Post-Workout (11:30pm)
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein, 1 Serving "Nature's Best Creatine Monohydrate" 5g)


    Lunch (1:15pm)
    • 6 oz. Grilled Chicken Breast
    • 1 Cup Brown Rice (Measured Dry)
    • 1/2 PB&J Sandwich on Wheat Bread


    Snack (3:30pm)
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)
    • 1 Medium Banana


    Dinner (7:00pm)
    • 6 oz. Top Round Steak
    • About 3/4 Cup Green Beans sauteed w/ Garlic (Measured Cooked)
    • Large Garden Salad (Lettuce, Tomatoes, Onions, Green Olives, Peppers, Crutons, Oil & Vinegar)
    • 2 12 oz. Coronas


    This is what I ate for the entire day. I drank about 1 1/2 gallons of water throughout the day. I always carry around a gallon of Poland Spring and drink often. My meals are structured about the same, and I usually eat about the same things and the same portions. Feedback? As always, thanks alot. Much appreciated.

    -MH-

  20. #20
    chuckt12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter973 View Post
    Hey War. Sorry I wasn't able to post yesterday I was tied up at work all day long. Here is what I ate all day yesterday.

    Breakfast (8:00am)
    • Scrambled Eggs (5 Whites & 1/2 Yolk)
    • 2 Slices Wheat Toast w/ about a 1 TBSP Peanut Butter
    • 1/2 Cup Oatmeal (Measured Dry)


    Pre-Workout (10:00am)
    • 1 Medium Banana
    • 2 Dozen Large Grapes
    • 1/2 Dozen Ritz Crackers
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)


    Post-Workout (11:30pm)
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein, 1 Serving "Nature's Best Creatine Monohydrate" 5g)


    Lunch (1:15pm)
    • 6 oz. Grilled Chicken Breast
    • 1 Cup Brown Rice (Measured Dry)
    • 1/2 PB&J Sandwich on Wheat Bread


    Snack (3:30pm)
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)
    • 1 Medium Banana


    Dinner (7:00pm)
    • 6 oz. Top Round Steak
    • About 3/4 Cup Green Beans sauteed w/ Garlic (Measured Cooked)
    • Large Garden Salad (Lettuce, Tomatoes, Onions, Green Olives, Peppers, Crutons, Oil & Vinegar)
    • 2 12 oz. Coronas


    This is what I ate for the entire day. I drank about 1 1/2 gallons of water throughout the day. I always carry around a gallon of Poland Spring and drink often. My meals are structured about the same, and I usually eat about the same things and the same portions. Feedback? As always, thanks alot. Much appreciated.

    -MH-

    i tried the 300mg clomid deal one pct and i wanted to jump off a roof,, i would prb just use the 100mg first day and then go to 50mg for the rest.

  21. #21
    chuckt12345's Avatar
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    well thats over 2000 calories but id throw in a b4 sleep snack

  22. #22
    MadHatter973's Avatar
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    any suggestions as to what i could eat before bed? i know a bunch of people that eat cottage cheese before bed... but the thought of cottage cheese turns my stomach haha

    -MH-

  23. #23
    chuckt12345's Avatar
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    dont see any fish in your diet

  24. #24
    WARMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter973 View Post
    Hey War. Sorry I wasn't able to post yesterday I was tied up at work all day long. Here is what I ate all day yesterday.

    Breakfast (8:00am)
    • Scrambled Eggs (5 Whites & 1/2 Yolk)
    • 2 Slices Wheat Toast w/ about a 1 TBSP Peanut Butter
    • 1/2 Cup Oatmeal (Measured Dry)


    Pre-Workout (10:00am)
    • 1 Medium Banana
    • 2 Dozen Large Grapes
    • 1/2 Dozen Ritz Crackers
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)


    Post-Workout (11:30pm)
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein, 1 Serving "Nature's Best Creatine Monohydrate" 5g)


    Lunch (1:15pm)
    • 6 oz. Grilled Chicken Breast
    • 1 Cup Brown Rice (Measured Dry)
    • 1/2 PB&J Sandwich on Wheat Bread


    Snack (3:30pm)
    • Protein Shake (1 Serving "Nature's Best Isopure Zero Carb" 50g Protein)
    • 1 Medium Banana


    Dinner (7:00pm)
    • 6 oz. Top Round Steak
    • About 3/4 Cup Green Beans sauteed w/ Garlic (Measured Cooked)
    • Large Garden Salad (Lettuce, Tomatoes, Onions, Green Olives, Peppers, Crutons, Oil & Vinegar)
    • 2 12 oz. Coronas


    This is what I ate for the entire day. I drank about 1 1/2 gallons of water throughout the day. I always carry around a gallon of Poland Spring and drink often. My meals are structured about the same, and I usually eat about the same things and the same portions. Feedback? As always, thanks alot. Much appreciated.

    -MH-
    No worries bro...

    Im gonna show you what a decent diet looks like. This one needs a lot of work. Its better than most that post, but nonetheless, its not enough.

    Something like this is what you need. Check the amount of protein and cals you get in this example diet compared to yours.

    Meal 1: Pro/Carb

    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal

    50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat



    Meal 2: Pro/Fat

    Lean Ground Beef, cup swiss cheese, green veggies

    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat



    Meal 3: Pro/Carb

    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    **Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.


    Meal 4: Pro/Fat

    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat



    Workout


    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

    2 Scoops Whey Protein / 80g of Dextrose

    40g protein / 80g carbs / 0g fat



    Meal 6: PPWO

    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat



    Meal 7: Pro/Fat

    Lean Protein of your choice, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat



    Meal 8: Before Bed

    3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat


    That turns into approximately 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories

  25. #25
    SheriD is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by war4BTT View Post
    No worries bro...

    Im gonna show you what a decent diet looks like. This one needs a lot of work. Its better than most that post, but nonetheless, its not enough.

    Something like this is what you need. Check the amount of protein and cals you get in this example diet compared to yours.

    Meal 1: Pro/Carb

    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal

    50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat





    Meal 2: Pro/Fat

    Lean Ground Beef, cup swiss cheese, green veggies

    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat



    Meal 3: Pro/Carb

    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    **Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.


    Meal 4: Pro/Fat

    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat



    Workout


    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

    2 Scoops Whey Protein / 80g of Dextrose

    40g protein / 80g carbs / 0g fat



    Meal 6: PPWO

    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat



    Meal 7: Pro/Fat

    Lean Protein of your choice, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat



    Meal 8: Before Bed

    3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat


    That turns into approximately 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories

    This looks like Ronnie Colemans diet .. I probably win the next olympia if I eat so much ..

    Its really clean and kewl diet tho ... IMO ..

  26. #26
    Browns4Life86 is offline Banned/SCAMMER
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    First cycle I did I went with Test E for 10 weeks at 500mg/week and Dbol to jump start the first weeks. I would highly suggest that cycle.

  27. #27
    Browns4Life86 is offline Banned/SCAMMER
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    Almost forgot...Definitely have both Nolva and Clomid on hand too...DONT NOT USE PCT like so many first timers do!! Not only will you lose your gains but it can harm your bodies natural test etc

  28. #28
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    wow War that is a pretty intense diet... im gonna have to try that out for a while. i always tried to avoid that much protein, as i was always told your body cant really process that much and most of it goes to waste. i always heard people saying 1.5g per pound of body weigh was more than enough... but obviously you know better than i do so im gonna go with your advice. thanks so much again.

    browns: thanks alot man thats exactly how im gonna lay out my cycle, except maybe without the dbol .

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browns4Life86 View Post
    Almost forgot...Definitely have both Nolva and Clomid on hand too...DONT NOT USE PCT like so many first timers do!! Not only will you lose your gains but it can harm your bodies natural test etc


    100% INCORRECT!

    Do NOT give this advice again.

    Advising against using a PCT is just plain wrong bro...

    And there is NO truth to PCT will lose your gains and harm your bodies natural test.

    That is an outright lie. In fact it does the complete opposite. PCT helps keeps your gains after cycle, and its main purpose is to restore your natural test production.

    Again HORRIBLE advice....

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter973 View Post
    wow War that is a pretty intense diet... im gonna have to try that out for a while. i always tried to avoid that much protein, as i was always told your body cant really process that much and most of it goes to waste. i always heard people saying 1.5g per pound of body weigh was more than enough... but obviously you know better than i do so im gonna go with your advice. thanks so much again.

    browns: thanks alot man thats exactly how im gonna lay out my cycle, except maybe without the dbol.
    Give it a go for 3 months and come back.

    If you dont gain an ounce then dont listen to anything i tell you. Trust me, youll be loving that diet...

  31. #31
    Big's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browns4Life86 View Post
    Almost forgot...Definitely have both Nolva and Clomid on hand too...DONT NOT USE PCT like so many first timers do!! Not only will you lose your gains but it can harm your bodies natural test etc
    here we go again...
    DO NOT GIVE BAD/HARMFUL ADVICE ON THIS BOARD.
    Consider this a warning.

    op, please ignore this guy.

  32. #32
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    Uhhh... guys... he used a double negative "don't NOT use pct".... He was saying DO PCT.

  33. #33
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    haha i had to read that three or four times as well to fully understand what he was talking about. but yea i gotta say in his defense, he said DONT not do pct.

    all who have replied have been very helpful and i really appreciate it. its good to see that there are so many people on this forum who are willing to give a newbie advice in a sincere manner. again, thanks alot to everyone who replied.

    -MH-

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnstHatAngst View Post
    Uhhh... guys... he used a double negative "don't NOT use pct".... He was saying DO PCT.
    I knew it was either bad advice or bad grammar, it just seemed to me if he was saying to use pct, there are better ways to phrase it lol. In any event, if he meant to say "don't not use pct", then I stand corrected. My warning should have been "don't not give good advice on this board".

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter973 View Post
    I have been told by some friends who use gear that taking Clomiphene after my cycle will prevent me from losing ALL my gains-MH-
    IS THAT TRUE ? about Clomiphene ?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKD View Post
    IS THAT TRUE ? about Clomiphene ?
    Clomid is quite common as part of a pct.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnstHatAngst View Post
    Uhhh... guys... he used a double negative "don't NOT use pct".... He was saying DO PCT.
    Wow i feel dumb.. Sorry bro!

  38. #38
    dieseldru is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by war4BTT View Post
    First off bro, welcome to AR.

    Secondly, lets get some stats from you.

    age
    height
    weight
    bf%
    diet summary/# meals per day
    years lifting / workout split
    cycle experience
    pct/estrogen control knowledge
    goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

    What your buddys are talking about is taking Clomid for PCT.

    PCT = Post Cycle Therpy

    Its used to help restore your HPTA quickly, and get your body to begin producing Test again.

    Its other purpose is to help you keep you gains.

    Now Clomid is not enough for a PCT, but if you were to add the Nolva to it, then it would suffice.

    Nolvadex is the cornerstone of ANY good PCT.


    It seems youve done some research, but you need to learn about PCT before you begin a cycle. You also should read up on estrogen control while on cycle.

    Some old school guys still prefer Nolva on cycle to combat gyno, but IMO the use of an AI is much better. They too can be included in PCT.

    Check out these links and get back to me.

    Drummerboys PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198848

    Test Beginner Cycle Guide
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742

    Steroid Profiles
    http://www.steroid.com/drugprof.php

    Again, welcome to AR!!

    -WAR
    War, please explain the bold. I know numerous, NUMEROUS people who have successfully used clomid for PCT, and furthermore the modes of actions between the two are different. If anything, clomid SHOULD be the cornerstone of any good PCT.

  39. #39
    MadHatter973's Avatar
    MadHatter973 is offline New Member
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    at any rate i think im gonna go for the Clomid/Nolva combo just to be safe. i dont think you can have too much PCT, right?

    -MH-

  40. #40
    MKD's Avatar
    MKD
    MKD is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter973 View Post
    at any rate i think im gonna go for the Clomid/Nolva combo just to be safe. i dont think you can have too much PCT, right?

    -MH-
    im same as you begining but all i know is for pct you can run clomid or nolva. start 14 days after your last shot of test and run it for 30 days .

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