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  1. #1
    thething86 is offline New Member
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    Thinking about first cycle....need guidance from the experts;)

    Hey bros,
    I am thinking about doing my first cycle. I am 5'10 175lbs and have been training for 5 years. I hope to gather as much information as possible about AAS before I even think about doing anything, that's why I came to this forum, to learn. I feel I have a pretty good base knowledge though, but you can always learn more. I would be 21 if I go through with this cycle. My main concern is permanently damaging my ability to produce testosterone naturally once I was done with the cycle...is this a big possibility or can that be avoided with a good PCT? Safety is utmost importance. My ideal cycle would be one that didn't bloat me up much, and gave solid, lean gains, without being people coming up to me and saying "holy crap, are you on roids?!", if you know what I mean. So I look forward to talking with you guys about this. Happy Turkey Day

  2. #2
    SilverTest's Avatar
    SilverTest is offline Senior Member
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    humm... i dont think its a possibility to have low test after a cycle , unless there is something wrong with you BEFORE you did your cycle.

  3. #3
    auslifta's Avatar
    auslifta is offline Retired MONITOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverTest View Post
    humm... i dont think its a possibility to have low test after a cycle , unless there is something wrong with you BEFORE you did your cycle.
    there is huge possibility of low test naturally after cycle. thats what PCT is for. Keep your cycle simple for first one and around 10 weeks. Just use test and maybe proviron followed by good PCT.
    There is always going to be a risk, just try to minimise damage. everyones different.

  4. #4
    auslifta's Avatar
    auslifta is offline Retired MONITOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverTest View Post
    humm... i dont think its a possibility to have low test after a cycle , unless there is something wrong with you BEFORE you did your cycle.
    do a 16week cycle of deca then get a blood test we'll see how normal your levels are. Dont listen to this advice thats my advice.

  5. #5
    inky-e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thething86 View Post
    Hey bros,
    I am thinking about doing my first cycle. I am 5'10 175lbs and have been training for 5 years. I hope to gather as much information as possible about AAS before I even think about doing anything, that's why I came to this forum, to learn. I feel I have a pretty good base knowledge though, but you can always learn more. I would be 21 if I go through with this cycle. My main concern is permanently damaging my ability to produce testosterone naturally once I was done with the cycle...is this a big possibility or can that be avoided with a good PCT? Safety is utmost importance. My ideal cycle would be one that didn't bloat me up much, and gave solid, lean gains, without being people coming up to me and saying "holy crap, are you on roids?!", if you know what I mean. So I look forward to talking with you guys about this. Happy Turkey Day
    I actually love when that happens....btw ..how old are you NOW?

  6. #6
    Phate's Avatar
    Phate is offline Got Diet? ~VET~ AR Hall of Famer~
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    1)post your diet for critique
    2) go research, then propose and cycle and pct and the reasons for said proposed cycle and we'll critique it

  7. #7
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Your to young to think about starting a cycle IMHO and you need to build more muslce mass and have a better foundation. Let me try to explain to you what hopefully will make you think twice . In humans your Endocrine system is not full functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates alittle bit up to its fully functional age.

    There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with syptoms of andropause and HRT for life would only be the answer to your problems. Limp dick,low libido,depression,low energy,low endurance,erections problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

    At this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and dont take the risk of damage, i am passionate about this because ive seen it many times all because some young kids wont listen and think his answer to looking like his heros is in an injection/tablet. think about the damage and trust me you can build at this age if the diet and training is in order.

    Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  8. #8
    Phate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Your to young to think about starting a cycle IMHO and you need to build more muslce mass and have a better foundation. Let me try to explain to you what hopefully will make you think twice . In humans your Endocrine system is not full functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates alittle bit up to its fully functional age.

    There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with syptoms of andropause and HRT for life would only be the answer to your problems. Limp dick,low libido,depression,low energy,low endurance,erections problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

    At this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and dont take the risk of damage, i am passionate about this because ive seen it many times all because some young kids wont listen and think his answer to looking like his heros is in an injection/tablet. think about the damage and trust me you can build at this age if the diet and training is in order.

    Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.
    great post, you seriously need to save this in a word document or something so you don't have to keep typing it

    actually i have a better way, i'll just transfer it to your reputation list

  9. #9
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phate View Post
    great post, you seriously need to save this in a word document or something so you don't have to keep typing it

    actually i have a better way, i'll just transfer it to your reputation list
    I have it saved lol.......to many younger ones around here for me not to
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  10. #10
    bmit is offline Member
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    Bro,

    Listen to Marcus3000 on this. 21 is WAY too young. Your natural test is perfect for building muscle at this point and at 21 you may be ill equipped to deal with the psychological and/or emotional sides of AAS. I know i would have been at 21. Get some creatine and work on building a perfect diet, workout split, and program.

    If you won't listen to this then look into anavar .

  11. #11
    thething86 is offline New Member
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    Why do you guys tell me 21 is too young and then in one of the first posts on this forum it says 21 is ok? I respect you opinions but if youre just going to come on here and tell me to wait until i'm 25 then you should change that post to say 25. My diet right now (bulking) is around 3500 calories ( 350 grams carbs, 300 grams protein, 100 grams of fat). Lots of chicken, turkey, rice, oats, you get the idea. My workout (right now) is a 4 day push/pull routine and I'm loving it so far.

    IF*** i did do a cycle, I would start with Anavar because of it has less of an effect on your HTPA than long estered steroids like testosterone . I heard it does not completely shut you down and is good for slow steady gains that you can keep. It does not aromotize so no AI on cycle would be needed. I would get AI's Cycle Support and run it the entire cycle. I might also run Sustain Alpha with the Anavar to keep my natural test operating as much as possible and make it easier to recover afterwards. PCT would be Nolvadex . Would there be a need for an AI in the pct after something like Anavar?

    Thanks guys for your posts, I respect each and every one of you and realize you know much more than I do about this. I am not saying I am going to do a cycle right now, I'm just laying out the blue print for what WOULD BE my first cycle, and that's what I need your help on. Thanks much

  12. #12
    marcus300's Avatar
    marcus300 is offline AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by thething86 View Post
    Why do you guys tell me 21 is too young and then in one of the first posts on this forum it says 21 is ok? I respect you opinions but if youre just going to come on here and tell me to wait until i'm 25 then you should change that post to say 25. My diet right now (bulking) is around 3500 calories ( 350 grams carbs, 300 grams protein, 100 grams of fat). Lots of chicken, turkey, rice, oats, you get the idea. My workout (right now) is a 4 day push/pull routine and I'm loving it so far.

    IF*** i did do a cycle, I would start with Anavar because of it has less of an effect on your HTPA than long estered steroids like testosterone . I heard it does not completely shut you down and is good for slow steady gains that you can keep. It does not aromotize so no AI on cycle would be needed. I would get AI's Cycle Support and run it the entire cycle. I might also run Sustain Alpha with the Anavar to keep my natural test operating as much as possible and make it easier to recover afterwards. PCT would be Nolvadex . Would there be a need for an AI in the pct after something like Anavar?

    Thanks guys for your posts, I respect each and every one of you and realize you know much more than I do about this. I am not saying I am going to do a cycle right now, I'm just laying out the blue print for what WOULD BE my first cycle, and that's what I need your help on. Thanks much
    First off re-read what I posted because it doesnt say anywhere i say wait till 25yrs old, I told you some facts on the human body, it doesnt matter who ever says start at such a age, i am giving you some facts to think about, its your choice, its your risk and just listening to your comments makes me think you have a attitude of your going to start anyway no matter what anyone says, this is the whole thing ive seen loads of young guys who are to immature to start but do and end up on hrt in their 20's 30's. Remember its your own risk but all i say is if your not gaining now at your age and natural test levels there is something big wrong............think about the risks and is it worth it,

    In humans your Endocrine system is not full functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates alittle bit up to its fully functional age.

    There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with syptoms of andropause and HRT for life would only be the answer to your problems. Limp dick,low libido,depression,low energy,low endurance,erections problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

    At this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and dont take the risk of damage, i am passionate about this because ive seen it many times all because some young kids wont listen and think his answer to looking like his heros is in an injection/tablet. think about the damage and trust me you can build at this age if the diet and training is in order.

    Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  13. #13
    thething86 is offline New Member
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    marucs, it was not my intention to come off as sounding like I have an attitude. I am sorry if it came off that way. I know the risks, and I probably will not do a cycle for another couple years. I am just trying to get info now about what the easiest and safest first cycle would be so I can make sure I know exactly what I'm doing when the time comes.

  14. #14
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thething86 View Post
    marucs, it was not my intention to come off as sounding like I have an attitude. I am sorry if it came off that way. I know the risks, and I probably will not do a cycle for another couple years. I am just trying to get info now about what the easiest and safest first cycle would be so I can make sure I know exactly what I'm doing when the time comes.
    Fair enough, well my advice is to read what i wrote and please wait, trust me you have enough natural hormones floating around to make really decent gains and with the right diet and training programme you will be amazed. You have made good judgement well done, now go and eat and train like a god
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  15. #15
    thething86 is offline New Member
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    I am bulking right now, but do not want to get fat haha. How does this macro breakdown look? 350 grams of carbs ( a lot coming around my workout), 300 grams of pro, and 100 grams of fat. It's about 3500 calories. Is this good for my weight and height? 5'10 172ish.

    Also, here is a list of some supps I have sitting around. Could you please tell me which ones you would use, thanks! Here they are:

    Whey (using it)
    Waximaize (using it)
    Multi (using it)
    B complex (using it)
    Chrysin (not sure, what is your opinion)
    Fenugreek (what is your opinion)
    ZMA (using it)
    Creatine (using it, 5 grams after workout)

    My workout is a 4 day push/pull type. How does all this look to you?

  16. #16
    SilverTest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta View Post
    do a 16week cycle of deca then get a blood test we'll see how normal your levels are. Dont listen to this advice thats my advice.

    Ok ok chill out man , my bad sorry man , i meant there is not a lot of possibility WITH PCT , i considered a cycle = AAS + the actual PCT .

    So ur advice is still like mine , anyway my bad didn't mean to give out wrong advice.

    sorry.

  17. #17
    thething86 is offline New Member
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    hey marcus, how does the diet and workout look two posts above? what about the supps?

  18. #18
    richtries's Avatar
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    supps are a waste of money imo mate, spend it on real food, creatine i find gives you a little more energy in the gym (kre-alkalyn tabs are best), but wont do anything for weight gain. Best protein shake is as follows;

    1 cup of oats
    I large banana
    6 egg whites
    Two heaped spoons of fat free cottage/cream cheese
    Ice and a splash of milk

    could add some dextrose/glucose powder if your bulking, never tried it though. Also there is a good bulking diet posted at the top of the diet section.

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