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  1. #1
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    first cycle- prop only. what do you think?

    -weeks 1-2- Test Prop @ 50mg EOD
    -Weeks 3-10- Test Prop @100mg EOD
    -Weeks 11-12- Test Prop @50mg EOD
    -3 days after last injection, begin to administer my PCT...
    -Week 13- Clomid 300mg ED, 60mg Nolvadex
    -Week 14- Clomid 100mg ED, 40mg Nolvadex
    -Week 15- Clomid 50mg ED, 20mg Nolvadex

    first cycle of aas, so i want to use just test...what do you think?

  2. #2
    FireGuy's Avatar
    FireGuy is offline 9/11/2001~343 Never Forget!~E-HOF~RETIRED
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    No need to taper the prop and 300mg clomid ED is overkill IMHO.

  3. #3
    LATS60's Avatar
    LATS60 is offline Anabolic Member
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    ^^^^x2

  4. #4
    Lemonada8's Avatar
    Lemonada8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    just do 75mg ED of prop with a nolva pct... no need to taper the prop, and no need for clomid for a simple prop only cycle... if u get gyno probs get letro on cycle, and drop it for pct... use hcg if u want for the last 2 weeks of cycle at 500iu EOD and through out pct... but those are accessories to the basic cycle... ur choice...

  5. #5
    LATS60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonada8 View Post
    just do 75mg ED of prop with a nolva pct... no need to taper the prop, and no need for clomid for a simple prop only cycle... if u get gyno probs get letro on cycle, and drop it for pct... use hcg if u want for the last 2 weeks of cycle at 500iu EOD and through out pct... but those are accessories to the basic cycle... ur choice...

    Are you saying that a nolva only PCT is adequate after a 12wk test cycle?
    With respect, thats just bad advice.

  6. #6
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    so you think just 300mg prop beginning to end is best? and how should i run the pct then? any other advice? please...

  7. #7
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    bump

  8. #8
    LATS60's Avatar
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    A good PCT would be nolva and clomid, standard for a test cycle.
    Clomid 100/50/25/25
    Nolva 40/20/20/20.

  9. #9
    Amorphic's Avatar
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    no need to taper the test doseage, pick a dose and run with it. 300mgs of clomid will turn you into a wreck, not to mention how hard it is on your eyes. nolva/aromasin would be a good pct

  10. #10
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    also, is it best to inject ED or EOD? and how many mgs for whatever is best?

  11. #11
    Amorphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by football12345 View Post
    also, is it best to inject ED or EOD? and how many mgs for whatever is best?
    75mgs/ed would be a good dose for a first cycle. be ready for prop pain. especially in virgin muscle injections

  12. #12
    LATS60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by football12345 View Post
    also, is it best to inject ED or EOD? and how many mgs for whatever is best?
    Personal preference, iv'e found it makes no diff either way. Up to you on dosages mate.
    Nolva and clomid will be the most effective.

  13. #13
    Amorphic's Avatar
    Amorphic is offline Veritas, Aequitas ~
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    also, forgot to ask stats here.

    age, bf%, height, weight?

  14. #14
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    21 years old. 5'10, 210 lbs, 10% body fat. diet isn't perfect but good enough to keep me at 10-12% year round. while on cycle, will have very strict diet to ensure gains. been serious training for 6 years now. haven't grown an inch in 5 years ha, i matured very early. want to start this cycle with test prop only and then pct with clomid/nolva.

    should i be taking anything with test prop to ensure proper health, no gyno, etc?

  15. #15
    Amorphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by football12345 View Post
    21 years old. 5'10, 210 lbs, 10% body fat. diet isn't perfect but good enough to keep me at 10-12% year round. while on cycle, will have very strict diet to ensure gains. been serious training for 6 years now. haven't grown an inch in 5 years ha, i matured very early. want to start this cycle with test prop only and then pct with clomid/nolva.

    should i be taking anything with test prop to ensure proper health, no gyno, etc?
    you can keep nolva on hand or use an AI such as arimidex to avoid any estrogen issues. sides should be minimal on a simple test cycle unless you are gyno prone however

  16. #16
    Sherman01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amorphic View Post
    no need to taper the test doseage, pick a dose and run with it. 300mgs of clomid will turn you into a wreck, not to mention how hard it is on your eyes. nolva/aromasin would be a good pct
    So Aromasin is a good alternate to Clomid? Is it a good alternative to replace Clomid after any cycle or just certain ones?

  17. #17
    Amorphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman01 View Post
    So Aromasin is a good alternate to Clomid? Is it a good alternative to replace Clomid after any cycle or just certain ones?
    i like it for any pct. nolva at 20-40mgs/ed with aromasin 15-25mgs ed

  18. #18
    hankdiesel's Avatar
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    First cycle you're not going to want to inject ed. 100mg eod for the duration of the cycle would work fine.

  19. #19
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    if it's going to be more beneficial then i'll suck it up.

  20. #20
    LATS60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman01 View Post
    So Aromasin is a good alternate to Clomid? Is it a good alternative to replace Clomid after any cycle or just certain ones?
    Let me just point out that aromasin being a type I steroidal AI makes a good addition to a clomid/nolva PCT in that it keeps libido up and helps prevent much of the estrogen rebound post PCT, but it's also worth posting this again for those who don't think clomid is neccessary.

    Because clomid does something that nolva cannot, in 7days at 100mg it increases LH and FSH by as much as 50%,and when used together they work better than their sum. Although these drugs are similar compounds they are not the same. Nolva isn't used to test HPTA function clomid is, Nolva isn't used to treat secondary hypgonadism, clomid is.
    Clomid unlike nolva, exerts a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on the pituitary by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.
    This tells us that for our purposes, fooling the HPTA to talk to the pituitary to produces these gonadtropins, clomid will always make your PCT more successful

  21. #21
    Sherman01's Avatar
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    So for a heavy cycle someone would be advised to take all three? Or for ANY cycle it would be a good idea?

    I know Clomid at high doses can be bad for your eyes and also can make people be overly emotional. Would using Aromasin along with Nolva/Clomid combo allow for a lower dose of Clomid perhaps?

    Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to gather some good info for when I eventually get my cycle plans in order.

  22. #22
    LATS60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman01 View Post
    So for a heavy cycle someone would be advised to take all three? Or for ANY cycle it would be a good idea?

    I know Clomid at high doses can be bad for your eyes and also can make people be overly emotional. Would using Aromasin along with Nolva/Clomid combo allow for a lower dose of Clomid perhaps?

    Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to gather some good info for when I eventually get my cycle plans in order.
    Any cycle IMHO. As for high doses of clomid thats why i keep it low 100mg ED in the 1st wk only is sufficent, thats only equivelent to around 30mg nolva.
    As for a lower dose of clomid because your using aromasin, well as above, it's a low dose anyway, but no, because they different drugs for different reasons.

  23. #23
    Mulciber is offline Scammer
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    i can avoid most of clomids sides by not taking over 100mg and taking it before bed and sleep through it

  24. #24
    Sherman01's Avatar
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    Good info, thanks guys! I will use all 3 for my PCT when I do my cycles.

  25. #25
    WARMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LATS60 View Post
    Let me just point out that aromasin being a type I steroidal AI makes a good addition to a clomid/nolva PCT in that it keeps libido up and helps prevent much of the estrogen rebound post PCT, but it's also worth posting this again for those who don't think clomid is neccessary.

    Because clomid does something that nolva cannot, in 7days at 100mg it increases LH and FSH by as much as 50%,and when used together they work better than their sum. Although these drugs are similar compounds they are not the same. Nolva isn't used to test HPTA function clomid is, Nolva isn't used to treat secondary hypgonadism, clomid is.
    Clomid unlike nolva, exerts a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on the pituitary by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.
    This tells us that for our purposes, fooling the HPTA to talk to the pituitary to produces these gonadtropins, clomid will always make your PCT more successful

    Great post bro!!! Very solid! Let this be known to newbies...

  26. #26
    LATS60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by war4BTT View Post
    Great post bro!!! Very solid! Let this be known to newbies...

    Thanks bro, always open to compliments

  27. #27
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    btw, thinking about running adex throughout whole cycle...this is good idea correct? trying to prevent gyno at all costs...

  28. #28
    Mulciber is offline Scammer
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    yeah its fine

  29. #29
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    running adex during is fine if u know ur gyno prone... but since this is ur first cycle id say go w/o it and if u start to get signs of it get some letro and follow the gyno reversal thread ( its basically letro ed at diff mgs)..... did/do u have pubescent gyno? that would be a good tell.....

    and 12 weeks w/ prop is a long time... be sure to follow thru on ur pct all the way through... id advise getting some hcg at the end of ur cycle...

  30. #30
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    actually considering in doing a 6 week prop cycle. i've been researching good amount of shorter cycles and they appeal so what. I'd rather gain 12 lbs and keep 10 than gain 20 and keep 15 or so. does any1 know much about the shorter cycles and effectiveness?

  31. #31
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    dude, if ur gonna do a short cycle do it for 8 weeks. And i would shoot 50mg to 75mg ed. for the duration of the 8 weeks.

  32. #32
    NEOSUP's Avatar
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    I would say go longer i just finished pct from a 7 week 50mg ed prop only cycle went from 182 at 12 bf to 202 and after pct im at 190 at 10bf next time im definetly going longer

  33. #33
    football12345 is offline New Member
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    damn dude you lost 12 lbs? i'm definitely going to ask around about 8 week cycle, i like the idea of body not ompletey shutting down and not as much sides...

  34. #34
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    His BF dropped 2% as well, so about 3 lbs. of that weight loss was fat

  35. #35
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    good luck with ya cycle bro, first cycle and you want to go with a short ester, eod injections. hmmmm, i would have a serious rethink if i was you....and your pct needs changing

  36. #36
    Lemonada8's Avatar
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    i did a prop cycle of 8 weeks... i went from 235 at 15% to 250 at 10% then after pct i am 240 at 10% bf.... id recommend a 7 or 8 week cycle of prop, then u can do a simple-r pct of just nolva... if u do a longer cycle, be sure to do a fuller pct... my first cycle was prop and i did ED shots i personally enjoyed the shots cause it made me feel like it waqs workin adn a daily reminder to go work out cause if i didnt the oil would pool in the muscle and hurt like a bitch....

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