GHB before bed?

[broncojosh]

Thinking about throwing in a capfull of ghb before bed. What do you guys think?
Peace
bronco

[majorpecs]

I think you are pretty knowledgable and do your research, so I say if you are comfortable with it, then go for it!! Personally I won't touch the stuff..but hey, that's just me bro...

[broncojosh]

well, i do try and do my research before I injest anything. I am not into the recreational drug scene at ALL, so this will be strictly to aid in furthuring my "physique" so to speak. it is going to be in along with hgh, test, eq, and possibly insulin .
thanks
bronco

[nj_]

It does help raise GH levels. But if you are already on GH I don't know if it will be of much benefit to you unless you are having sleeping problems which it can help to alleviate.

[en1222]

Just don't take too much. Be careful with that stuff.

[youngNhungry]

I take ghb on almost a nightly basis. I think its benifits for lifters are great. I get a wondrful sleep from a light to moderate dose. Never consume alcohol with ghb. I don't drink at all and sometimes use "G" as an alcohol alternative. What ever does you decide start out light GHB is potentially lethal if the wrong dose is administered

[Rickson]

I don't see anything wrong with using it occassionally for sleep but if you are getting it from someone over the net then it isn't worth the risk of dealing with a source that deals in rec drugs. Don't get me wrong I am not a prude but your safety and freedom are worth more.

[broncojosh]

nah, one of my workout bro's uses it, so it's "available" so to speak. I'm just curious, why is everybody so against it? I know that if taken irresponsibly, it can be deadly, but that's not my situation. Is it worth it?

[Mastiff]

It is very addictive with some people. The guy who wrote "A laymans guide to bodybuilding" got hooked on it and almost killed himself. Most of the reaction to it is because of the "date-rape" thing. Since its a date rape drug, you must be planning on raping somebody if you have it. Therefore, you are scum and deserve to be locked up. Personally, I wouldn't touch it. Law enforcement has a big one on for this stuff.

[broncojosh]

so it's not worth the risk? This all came about because when I juice, I tend to toss and turn most of the damn night, and sleep becomes a little difficult.

[FmRommel]

Hey Bro -
Never done it myself - always had a sleep prob, though....
I think it's stigma comes from it's use a a "date Rate" drug....
I dont think the GH benefits are as solid as one would assume....
but heres some info...
Let us know how it goes...
Good Luck

GHB:
Description: GHB (Gamma-hydroxybutyrate) is both a metabolite and precursor of the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid, or gamma-aminobutyrate), another nutrient to which it bears a close structural relationship. GHB, however, does not act directly on GABA receptor sites. It is has come to be used in Europe as a general anesthetic, a treatment for insomnia and narcolepsy (a daytime sleeping disorder), an aid to childbirth (increasing strength of contractions, decreasing pain, and increasing dilation of the cervix), a treatment for alcoholism and alcohol withdrawal syndrome, and for many other uses.

During the 1980s, GHB was widely available over-the-counter in health-food stores, purchased largely by body-builders for its ability to stimulate growth hormone release which aids in fat reduction and muscle building. In the last few years it has been gaining popularity as a "recreational" drug offering a pleasant, alcohol-like, hangover-free "high" with potent prosexual effects. For the thirty years prior to 1990, the scientific papers on GHB were unanimous in reporting numerous beneficial physiological effects and the absence of long-term negative effects. There are no documented reports of long-term [detrimental] effects. Nor is there any evidence for physiologic addiction." GHB is not approved in the US and was been banned from over-the-counter sale by the FDA as of November 8th, 1990. GHB continues to be sold to legitimate laboratories and scientists for research purposes, but selling it specifically for human consumption, especially while making claims about its health benefits, is a violation of current FDA regulations and policy.

Most users find that GHB induces a pleasant state of relaxation and tranquility. Frequent effects are placidity, sensuality, mild euphoria, and a tendency to verbalize. Anxieties and inhibitions tend to dissolve into a feeling of emotional warmth, wellbeing, and pleasant drowsiness. One of the best things about GHB is the fact that you won't suffer any "hang-over" effects that you typically would if you had consumed an abundance of alcohol the night before. GHB has no toxic effects on the liver, kidney or other organs. Reports that doses as high as twenty to thirty grams per twenty-four hour period have been used for several days without negative consequences. The main side effects that are most commonly experienced are drowsiness, dizziness, nausea, and sometimes vomiting. More unusual and extreme reactions have included diarrhea, lack of bladder control, temporary amnesia, and sleep-walking. Whatever side effects may be noted, they are often much more severe when GHB is combined with other central nervous system depressants such as alcohol or other downers. GHB is a very interesting compound and has several effects that would be desireable for bodybuilders and athletes in general.

The following is a list of the desired effects:

1) Increasing natural growth hormone secretion-experts observed increases in plasma GH over a period of 90 minutes after GHB took effect. These plasma GH levels reached a peak of nearly 40 ng/ml. This lead researchers to conclude that GHB supplementation stimulates the secretion of GH by the pituitary gland in human subjects. It may cause a release of GH by modifying the amount of serotonin available to the nerve terminals. One Japanese study reported nine-fold and sixteen-fold increases in growth hormone 30 and 60 minutes respectively after intravenous administration of 2.5 grams of GHB in six healthy men between the ages of twenty-five and forty. GH levels were still seven-fold higher at 120 minutes. At the same time GH is being released, prolactin levels also rise. Serum prolactin levels increase in a similar time-dependent manner as GH, peaking at five-fold above baseline at 60 minutes. This effect, unlike the release of GH, is entirely consistent with GHB's inhibition of dopamine. Other compounds which lessen dopamine activity in the brain (such as the neuroleptic Thorazine) have been shown to result in prolactin release. Although prolactin tends to counteract many of the beneficial effects of GH, the sixteen-fold increases in GH probably overwhelm the five-fold increases in prolactin.

2) Contributing to anabolism and lypolysis-GHB activates a metabolic process known as the "pentose pathway" which plays an important role in the synthesis of protein within the body. It also causes a "protein sparing" effect which reduces the rate at which the body breaks down its own proteins. These properties, along with GHB's effect on growth hormone, underlie its common use as an aid to muscle-building and fat loss.

3) Inducing and improving sleep quality-The most remarkable facet of GHB-induced sleep is its physiological resemblance to normal sleep. For instance, GHB sleep is characterized by increased levels of carbon dioxide in the arteries, as in normal sleep. During normal and GHB sleep, the CNS continues to be responsive to "noxious stimuli" (pain and other irritations), a factor which sets limits on GHB's uses in anesthesia. GHB facilitates both REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, and "slow-wave" (non-REM) sleep, the stage of sleep featuring increased release of growth hormone. And unlike the unconsciousness induced by other anesthetics, that triggered by GHB does not feature a systemic decrease in oxygen consumption. GHB temporarily inhibits the release of dopamine in the brain. This may cause increased dopamine storage, and later increased dopamine release when the GHB influence wears off. This effect could account for the middle-of-the-night wakings common with use of higher GHB doses, and the general feelings of increased well-being, alertness and arousal the next day.

4) Helping to reduce body cortisol levels-this would make this drug or supplement or whatever classification you want to call it anti-catabolic.

5) Improving Sex-scientists have identified four main prosexual properties of GHB: a) Loss of sexual inhibition-markedly among most women, b) heightening of the sense of touch (tactility), c) enhancement of male erectile capacity, d) increased intensity of orgasm.

Women often report that GHB makes their orgasms longer and more intense, as well as more difficult or time-consuming to achieve, especially at higher doses. As with its other effects, GHB's impact on female orgasm seems highly sensitive to small adjustments in dosage.

Obtaining the Reagents: NaOH, denatured ethanol and methanol are very easy to find. Just look up chemical products in the yellow pages. Those chemicals are so common that you won't be asked what you are going to do with it.

Gamma-butyrolactone is difficult to find. It is typically used as a solvent for plastic polymers, as an acrylic paint remover, and as a light weight lubricant. It would be good to remember this since they might ask you what you are needing the chemical for. Several companies sell it on the net - make a search using Dejanews. Other companies sell complete kits for preparing GHB. The kits that are available tend to be more expensive than just buying the raw chemicals outright. If you are buying the chemicals from the yellowpages, it would be smart to purchase the sodium hydroxide and the gamma-butyrolactone from different sources to avoid any raised eye-brows as well.

Effective Dose: The effects of GHB can generally be felt within five to twenty minutes after ingestion. They usually last no more than one and a half to three hours, although they can be indefinitely prolonged through repeated dosing. The effects of GHB are very dose-dependent. Small increases in the amount ingested lead to significant intensification of the effect. Higher levels feature greater giddiness, silliness, and interference with mobility and verbal coherence, and maybe even dizziness. Even higher doses usually induce sleep.

Determining the ideal dose is probably the trickiest aspect of working with GHB. The amount required for a given level of effect will vary from person to person, and the dose-response curve is fairly steep. Overestimating the dose can have consequences ranging in seriousness from ruining your plans for the evening to waking up in the emergency ward as a result of panic on the part of concerned-but-uninformed friends or relatives.

Once you have found the levels that give you the effects you desire, they will remain consistent. Tolerance to GHB does not develop. However, recent (not current) alcohol consumption may decrease the effect of a given dose of GHB. Most people find that a dose in the range of 0.75-1.5 grams is suitable for prosexual purposes, and that a quantity in the range of 2.5 grams is sufficient to force sleep.

Some people think that GHB might lower potassium levels and should therefore be taken with potassium supplementation. Some research papers have identified such an effect, others have not. If you want to play it safe, take a potassium supplement equal to 10% of the GHB dose.

[broncojosh]

thanks for the info. What's the deal with your avatar?

[FmRommel]

Bronco -
No Prob man...done some research myself-
avatar - well, i have 2 hobbies - Bodybuilding and WW2..
Usually, since people on boards and newsletter subscriptions choose a name with a BB reference, I usually go with a WW2 general for the hell of it...somethin different.

[broncojosh]

I knew exactly who the pic was, and a giveaway with that handle. I'm a WW2 guy myself. My question wasn't so much as who, but why? I can think of alot better choices than the "desert fox". He was on the wrong side...

[FmRommel]

"why? I can think of alot better choices than the "desert fox". He was on the wrong side..."

hahahaha - Good Point

[SoundFactory]

I DONT post too much guys, but I have to tell you GHB is the worst thing ive seen, literally every night at the afterhours clubs Huge juicers, as well as young kids are taken out in stretchers to the emergency room from too much GBH, there is no specific dose to use, therefore Overdoses happen fequently, im 6'5 220 lbs , I did 2 caps of GHB as recrational use, 45mintues later i was laid out on the floor with cold water being poured on me..the stuff is dangerous!

[King Samson]

SoundFactory is right. GHB is very dangerous. But you have to consider who is using GHB in clubs. Mostly people who like to push the limits just for a night of fun.
Everyone will react differently. I can take rather large doses while others would probably slip into a coma or possably die. So you will have to start out very small to find out where you are at. Also, GHB will vary in concetration. You may get a weak batch this time and then a strong batch then next, which could be deadly.
It is true that GHB will help you as a sleep aid but there are many more drugs to use that are a lot less dangerous, addictive, and illegal. When ever I have trouble sleeping, which is not very often, I just take about 6 drops of PPL superclen and I am out like a light.
If I were you I would look into other alternatives before you experiment with GHB as a sleep aid.

[ironman57]

do it, but when you die, dont say that i didnt warn you!

[Ex_banana-eater]

Chemically Correct: GHB
By Par Deus

Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate



Background



During the 80's, Gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), which was readily available over-the-counter in nutrition stores, enjoyed widespread popularity among bodybuilders for its ability to stimulate growth hormone release (as well as its euphoric properties). It was subsequently pulled from the marke due to a few isolated instances of abuse (all of which also involved other drugs) and, it is thought by some, to protect prescription pharmaceutical sleep-aids from safer, more effective (and less expensive) competition and to pave the way for the wave of SSRI's that started with Prozac.

Not coincidentally, since it sale became illegal in 1990, its popularity has spread considerably.




Introduction


GHB is a four carbon, fatty acid derivative originally synthesized in the early 1960's by Dr. Henry Laborit , who was looking for an analogue of GABA (the brain's primary inhibitory neurotransmitter) that would readily cross the blood brain barrier -- a property GABA lacked (1). Indeed, GHB did prove to easily cross the blood brain barrier -- However, it was found to exert of number of effects not shared by GABA (2). It is now known that it does not bind to either GABA receptor under readily achievable concentrations (3). And though it is formed from GABA in brain tissues, that is not its only or perhaps even primary source (3).

A decade after its synthesis, GHB was shown to occur naturally in the human brain (4). Twenty-five years later, specific receptors for GHB were discovered (5), and it is now thought by many to be a neurotransmitter, or at least a neuromodulator (6, 7).

GHB is also found in various peripheral tissues such as kidney, heart, skeletal muscles, and brown fat (8) -- at higher concentrations that in the brain -- but as of yet, no peripheral receptors have been discovered, thus is function in these tissues not known at this time (9, 10).



Biochemistry


As mentioned, GHB is a naturally occurring component of mammalian brain metabolism. Highest brain levels occur in the substantia nigra, thalamus, and hypothalamus, lowest levels are found in the cerebellum and frontal cortex (11). It can be formed from GABA in the brain as well as being metabolized from it -- both via the intermediate succinic semialdehyde (12), which can also enter the Krebs cycle as succinate. The recently banned supplement ingredients, gammabutyrolactone and 1,4 butanediol, are also naturally occurring precursors (13).



Pharmocokinetics


GHB is readily bioavailable with oral administration, however, oral clearance rate and % absorption decrease and half-life increases with escalating doses, indicating that these processes are capacity limited (14, 15). This does not appear to be true for GBL (15), which explains the differing subjective effects between the two.



Pharmacology


Following oral, intravenous, or intraperitoneal administration, GHB produces CNS depressant effects similar to alcohol -- and, in fact, it has been shown to substitute for alcohol in physically dependent rats (16). At doses as low as .1 mg/kg in humans, it produces a state of sedation indistinguishable from human sleep (17). The mechanism behind its subjective effects are not completely understood, and involve multiple neurotransmitter systems:



Dopamine


The central neurotransmitter dopamine has been consistently shown to be altered by GHB, and is considered as the primary mediator of its subjective effects. At low doses, it causes a reduction in dopaminergic activity, due to inhibition of dopamine releasing neurons -- which possess GHB receptors (11). This combined with GHB stimulation of tyrosine hydroxylase (18) -- the enzyme which converts the amino acid tyrosine to dopamine -- causes a buildup of dopamine, which, when finally released when the drug has worn off, is quite likely responsible for the refreshed, hyper-alert state one experiences upon waking from a GHB induced sleep.

There is animal data showing an INCREASED release of dopamine at high doses (19, 20). These are intravenous doses in the 400-700mg/kg range, which would around 50 grams for a 200 lb man. Rats metabolize GHB much faster than humans (21), but a conservative estimate would still put an equivalent dose at 15g or so (though I don't know if equivalent blood levels are even possible orally due to the afore mentioned transport saturation).

In the real world, reports of the subjective experience of doses this high are that it causes rapid onset of sleep -- which does not agree with the effects typically seen from increased dopamine release. As GHB has been found to effect several other systems, perhaps one of them is overriding the stimulant effect that would be expected to occur.


GHB has also been shown to increase mRNA for dopamine receptors D1 and D2 (22).




Serotonin


It is not known whether GHB influence serotonergic systems directly, or indirectly via dopamine or GABA, but it is known that pharmacological doses cause an increase in serotonin turnover, due to increased uptake of tryptophan (23). This action on serotonin probably at least partially accounts for its ability to stimulate growth hormone release, as co-administration with the serotonin receptor antagonist, metergoline, significantly reduced this increase (23). Metergoline has also been shown to lower GH levels in acromegaly patients (24). It seems quite possible that this system is involved in the sedating and antidepressant effects observed with GHB treatment.



Opioid


GHB has been found to increase brain levels of the endogenous opiods, dynorphin and beta-endorphin (25). The opiod receptor antagonist, nalaxone, significantly reduces the metabolic and pharmacological effects of GHB (including dopaminergic) -- leading some to suggest that the opiod system modulates its activity on dopamine (26). In addition, GHB induced EEG changes are mimicked by administration of morphine and beta-endorphin (26). As with serotonin, GHB induced sedating and antidepressant/euphoric effects could be be mediated by the opiod system.



GABA


Since its creation as a hopeful GABA analogue, it has been a common misconception that GHB exerts much of its action through binding with GABA receptors -- however its affinity is 1/1000th that of GABA, thus binding does not occur under physiological conditions (27). Nonetheless, GHB's effects are thought to be mediated, to some extent, by the GABAergic system. First, GHB is both a precursor to, and metabolite of, GABA. In addition, GHB receptors are found on GABAergic neurons, suggesting that it modulates it release (28). As GABA is the brain's primary inhibitory neurotransmitter, it is quite likely that the sedating properties of GHB are mediated by this system.



Benzodiazepine


Benzodiazepine action is mediated through the GABA(A) receptor (29), and since GHB metabolizes to GABA and also stimulates its release, it would be expected to activate this system. And, indeed, the anxiolytic effects of low dose GHB is antagonized by the benzodiazepine receptor antagonist flumazenil (29). Flumazenil also blunts the growth hormone response of GHB (30). Again, this system could be involved in the sedative/anxiolytic/antidepressant effects of GHB.



Acetylcholine

GHB has no effect on acetylcholine, though its precursor, gammabutyrolactone, has been shown to increase brain levels at high doses, suggesting that some amounts may escape hydrolysis and enter the CNS (31).



Norepinephrine


The majority of the literature suggests GHB has no effect on central norepinephrine levels, however Persson found increases in synthesis and utilization (32).



GHB and Bodybuilding: Direct Effects


Does GHB truly have a place in a bodybuilder's arsenal, or is the whole GH thing just an excuse to get twisted?? I believe it does have a place -- though, as I will show, many of its positive effects on body composition are more indirect than direct.

The first thing we should look at is its most commonly touted effect -- its stimulation of Growth Hormone release. It has, in fact, been found to raise growth hormone levels sharply in numerous studies (23, 30, 33). Some have claimed that these increases are only with intravenous administration or are the indirect result of GHB inducing sleep, as the onset of slow wave sleep is associated with increased GH levels. However, studies using oral delivery, have indeed shown increases in conscious subjects (23,30). With administration of 1.5 g of GHB, GH levels begin to rise almost immediately, reaching a peak of 3 times normal levels within 45 minutes, then rapidly falling back to within 25% of baseline by the 90 minute mark. Clearly, it does increase growth hormone.

Nonetheless, reports in both the literature and the real world on body composition, even with growth hormone injections, have been something less than spectacular. In the literature, GH has been shown to increase protein synthesis, however, it is not contractile protein (muscle) but rather visceral (organs) (34). Data on fat loss and muscle sparing with GH is a bit better. It has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown during dieting and fasting, leading to increased retention of muscle mass (35) . It is also known to be lipolytic (36). Real world reports of GH run along the same lines -- it not effective on its own for increasing muscle, but an increase it fat loss is definitely noticeable. But, again, this is with injections. Once a day use of GHB is not likely to mirror these effects. However, if someone would like to take 1.5 grams every 90 minutes for an extended period, please report back with your results.

At doses of 2.5 - 3.5 grams, GHB causes increased release of prolactin, doubling levels by the 45 minute mark, followed by a gradual return to baseline (33). Increases in prolactin have been shown to proportionally raise leptin levels, so this represents a possible positive effect on fat loss and muscle retention (37). Unfortunately, similar doses also raise cortisol levels, which has exactly the opposite effect of leptin on body composition (33). This antagonism might account for the lack of effects observed with GHB, and could perhaps be remedied with a drugs or supplement such as Cytadren or phosphatidylserine.

In addition to these, there are several other lesser known effects of GHB which have implications for bodybuilders. It increases gastric emptying (38), which is likely what causes the temporary increase in appetite observed with GHB use . Obviously, this is not particularly beneficial on a diet, though it might be on a mass phase. It also would likely make a good addition to a post-workout drink, as it would make glucose and amino acids available more quickly. Increased protein synthesis in brain and gastric tissues has been reported, whether this is accompanied by increased skeletal muscle synthesis is not known (39). Obese rats were found to have lower brain levels of GHB than their lean counterparts, despite identical diet, which suggests GHB as a potential signaler in the regulation of bodyweight (40) -- GHB metabolite GABA increases with fat feeding, which lends further support to this hypothesis. It has been shown to function as a powerful an antioxidant, blocking free-radical formation and lipid peroxidation (10). This could aid in recovery, as well as in overall health.

One of the more fascinating possibilities, comes from a study in rats (21) which showed a remarkable increase in body temperature after administration of very low doses. Following intraperitoneal injection of 5mg/kg, body temperature rose rapidly to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit above normal at 15 minutes, and reached a peak of almost 2.2 degrees at the hour mark. It was still elevated by 2 degrees at the 75 minute mark, and dropping only quite gradually -- in humans, this would be a profound thermogenic effect (Clenbuterol might raise body temperature by 1 degree).

Considering GHB has a half-life of 5 minutes after injection (41), it would seem that GHB was not directly mediating these effects, but rather caused the release of something with a longer half-life. I am going to go out on a limb a bit and propose that the mediator might be norepinephrine -- which has a peripheral half-life of several hours -- as long as 12 in some tissues (42 ).

As mentioned above, GHB does not seem to effect central norepinephrine levels, however it HAS been shown to effect peripheral levels -- with high doses causing profound depletion of heart and brown fat norepinephrine levels (10). And, perhaps not coincidentally, in contrast to the increase in body temperature with the low dose, these high doses consistently cause a DECREASE in body temperature (21, 43). As we have seen, GHB has been conclusively shown to exert a biphasic effect on dopamine, so the possibility certainly exists with this compound.

I want to make clear that the above is very speculative, both as to why it occurred and to its having any relevancy toward humans. First, it is only one study. Second, it used intraperitoneal injections rather than oral administration. Third, the mechanisms were not looked at. And fourth, rats have much higher levels of brown fat, thus the thermogenic effects of an increase in norepinephrine would be exaggerated compared to humans.

Nonetheless, it is certainly enticing enough to give a try, with a couple of adjustments that take into account the use of human subjects (I would not expect the pharmacokinetics of oral and i.p. administration to be significantly different with this low of doses). GHB is metabolized by rats much faster than humans, thus a lower dose would be recommended. I would estimate 1-2mg/kg at most -- meaning around 100-200 mg for a 200 lb person -- this is a tiny dose -- one which would produce no subjective psychological effects and, in fact, probably no increase in brain GHB levels (21).



Indirect Effects


Perhaps the most important applications of GHB for bodybuilders do not involve direct effects on hormones or hormone systems, anabolic or otherwise. The first is that GHB is a MAGNIFICENT sleep aid. As mentioned previously, at sufficient doses, it rapidly and predictably causes the onset of a sedation which has been characterized as identical to human sleep (17), but with a greater portion of the time spent in stage IV and R.E.M. sleep (44), which are the most beneficial for recovery. I trust I do not need to mention the importance of sleep for a bodybuilder. I trust I also do not need to mention the detrimental effect on sleep of certain common components of the bodybuilding arsenal such as EC and androgens. I will mention that GHB makes waking up in the middle of the night for a protein shake much more feasible. And, again, I trust that I do not have to mention the effects of a 6-10 hour fast on the anabolic/catabolic state of the body.

The other application for GHB is as an alcohol substitute. In addition to containing 105 calories per drink -- more if you are having beer, alcohol lowers testosterone (45) and has a tendency to cause less than optimal workouts the following day. As dedicated as we might be to improving our bodies, most of us do not want to be a slave to this pursuit when it comes to socializing/partying.

GHB is a life saver here. Its biochemical, electrophysiological, and and pharmacological effects are quite similar to alcohol (46, 47). And, in fact, it has been successfully used clinically in the treatment of alcohol dependency, where it is thought to work through a substitution mechanism -- meaning it mimics alcohol's actions on the central nervous system (46). Both activate the dopamine system -- a characteristic commonly shared by drugs of abuse, they exhibit cross-tolerance -- meaning frequent consumption of one causes tolerance to the other, and both are preferentially (vs. water) self-administered by rats (16).

Subjectively, the effects are not identical. Some prefer a GHB intoxication to alcohol, some the vice versa. I find GHB to be more sedating and slightly less uninhibiting than alcohol, but I know others for whom the opposite is true. Without question, one feels considerably better the next day with GHB vs. alcohol.

A combination of the two can allow a a shitfaced intoxication subjectively quite similar to that produced by alcohol, but with the consumption of only a few drinks, thus only a few hundred calories. It is typically strongly suggested that the two not be combined, with the argument that they have synergistic effects. However, based both on experience and the available scientific data, I tend to think the effects are mostly additive. Thus, I do not necessarily consider this activity contraindicated. The problem is that downing a "cap full" of GHB is like bonging a 6 pack, so for someone who is already quite intoxicated, this can put them over the edge.

Also, keep in mind that the metabolism of the two drugs are different -- GHB's in not saturable at typically utilized doses, thus it has a half-life (of probably 1 hr when taken orally), while alcohol's is quite saturable, thus only one drink is metabolized per hour -- meaning if one has 6g of GHB and 6 drinks at hour one (do not do this), at hour three, you would have only 1.5g of GHB in your system, but 4 drinks. As you can see, if one kept drinking, as the night went on, it would get a bit complicated, so if you do experiment with this combination, start with small amounts until you get a feel for it.



Safety


The overall safety of GHB is well-established in experimental and clinical use. Doses as high as 30 grams a day have been used in humans (48). And acute doses of as much as 1g/kg have been used in monkeys (10). Both without ill effects. It has no toxic effects on the liver, kidneys or other organs (48, 49). In narcolepsy studies, nightly use of 2.5 to 15 grams for several years resulted in no long-term adverse effects, nor did it result in addiction/dependence.

Side effects can include dizziness, nausea, and sometimes vomiting -- particularly on an empty stomach. It almost invariably causes drowsiness, so don't take it and then hop in the bathtub. Ataxia (loss of coordination) is more severe than with alcohol, so driving could be considered contraindicated.



Maximizing Recreational Value


With our new understanding of GHB pharmacology, coupled with a basic understanding of the mechanisms of other drugs, it is apparent that we could readily manipulate our subjective experience to suit our tastes. However, an in-depth analysis is beyond the scope of this article -- though, it will likely be the subject of a future one.



Availability


Scandalously, sale or possession of GHB is now illegal in all 50 states. It is currently a "Schedule I" drug -- meaning it has no legitimate medical uses, despite over thirty years of use in Europe in everything from drug addiction treatment to childbirth.

Both gammabutyrolactone (GBL) and 1,4 butanediol (BDO) are converted into GHB upon ingestion (both are naturally occurring precursors in the human brain), and were being sold as nutritional supplements for a while (RenewTrient, SomatoPro, Blue Nitro, etc.). However, their sale for human use has now been banned as well.

GHB can be readily synthesized from GBL, however, it has been designated as a "List 1" chemical, meaning a distributor must obtain a DEA # and report all sales, along with appropriate paperwork. Thus, it is, for all intents and purposes, unavailable as well.

----------------------------------------------

[Ex_banana-eater]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb.shtml

Too much stuff to list.... Erowid is a great source for recreational use drugs. It includes safety and other issues as well.

[Ex_banana-eater]

Safety:

In my opinion, GHB is about as life threatening as alcohol. The worst thing that can happen (just like alcohol) is that if you overdose, you go into a coma. The only reason why we get fools overdosing all the time is because they don't know the concentration of the GHB they bought, and how effective GHB is. Like Par Deus said, a cap full of GHB can be equal to banging a six pack, rather quickly.

[Ex_banana-eater]

Take into consideration what Par says about the GH increases. Unless you are injecting GHB every 90 minutes, you won't get much effect from the GH increase.

[Ex_banana-eater]

Originally posted by Mastiff
Law enforcement has a big one on for this stuff.

thats why there is a new legal product out there, by avantlabs. its called trainquili-g.

"I have recently discovered a substance which, upon ingestion, is converted via lactonase catalysed hydrolysis (same mechanism as GBL) to a GHB analogue that was found to bind to the receptor with 15% GREATER affinity GHB itself. And, not only is it perfectly legal in all 50 states for sale, possession, and ingestion, but it also is Generally Regarded as Safe (G.R.A.S) by the FDA.

This product, Tranquili-G, is now available through Avant Labs. I am taking steps, as we speak, to obtain a use patent on it as a sleep aid, growth hormone releaser, anxiolytic, and good-time party drink. Until that time, I will be unable to reveal the actual name of the chemical, for obvious reasons."

its at www.avantlabs.com

[glowgrl]

About the club thing, well that is how stupid some people are expecially young ones they think that they can take it to the extreme! When you mix extacy along w/ some K and then you decide to have GHB well DUMBASS move!! If you take a capful before bed and you have NO recreational drugs in you, well you should be fine and get a good night sleep. But just be careful I've seen alot of people get addicted to it!!