Can you really be shutdown permanently?

[dece870717]

I've never really had a straight answer with this, i guess maybe because there really isn't one but I keep hearing people say you go on too long and you'll have to pin the rest of your life. And people say it but is there also scientific documentation and/or have personal experience or know someone that went on too long and tried to come off and did a very aggressive PCT and was not able to recover at all? And if you can be shutdown permanently where is that barrier? 2 years? 3 years? 4 years?... I ask because of that one study or article or whatever about people that were wrongly prescribed thyroid hormone(T4) for years and then found they did not need it and their thyroid eventually came back to normal. But can you apply that to the HPTA also, as we all know that thyroid and testes are completely different but was wondering if the same rules can apply. It seems like the body can adjust and re-adjust to anything but is the HPTA one that it just can't after a period of time?

[LATS60]

I've never really had a straight answer with this, i guess maybe because there really isn't one but I keep hearing people say you go on too long and you'll have to pin the rest of your life. And people say it but is there also scientific documentation and/or have personal experience or know someone that went on too long and tried to come off and did a very aggressive PCT and was not able to recover at all? And if you can be shutdown permanently where is that barrier? 2 years? 3 years? 4 years?... I ask because of that one study or article or whatever about people that were wrongly prescribed thyroid hormone(T4) for years and then found they did not need it and their thyroid eventually came back to normal. But can you apply that to the HPTA also, as we all know that thyroid and testes are completely different but was wondering if the same rules can apply. It seems like the body can adjust and re-adjust to anything but is the HPTA one that it just can't after a period of time?

To answer your Q, it is possible but rare.

[BrokenBricks]

http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/2/373

"EFFECT OF LONG-TERM TESTOSTERONE OENANTHATE ADMINISTRATION ON MALE REPRODUCTIVE FUNCTION: CLINICAL EVALUATION, SERUM FSH, LH, TESTOSTERONE, AND SEMINAL FLUID ANALYSES IN NORMAL MEN
J. Mauss, G. Börsch, K. Bormacher, E. Richter, G. Leyendecker and W. Nocke

The effect of long-term testosterone administration on male reproductive function has been investigated in seven healthy young men age 20 to 27 years. Testosterone oenanthate (TOe) was administered in doses of 250 mg per week for 21 weeks. No toxic side-effects were observed. Libido, sexual potency, frequency of sexual intercourse and body hair development generally remained unaffected, but there was a reversible mean weight gain of 3.6 kg during TOe administration. Seminal fluid parameters and radioimmunoassayable serum FSH, LH, testosterone, and androstenedione levels were monitored before, during, and after TOe administration. The serum testosterone rose approximately by a factor of two, while the serum FSH and LH were rapidly suppressed after the initiation of the TOe therapy. The mean sperm concentration fell to values below three million spermatozoa per ml, and changes in sperm motility, the percentage of normal sperm morphology, and seminal fructose concentrations generally paralleled those of the mean sperm concentrations. In contrast, the mean seminal fluid volume and serum androstenedione levels did not change significantly during TOe administration. The mean sperm concentration showed a marked recovery 13 to 16 weeks after TOe withdrawal, but sperm counts remained below pre-treatment levels in three out of seven subjects 25 to 28 weeks after discontinuation of TOe."

[magic32]

The answer is a profound “NO"!
The body will ALWAYS recover to some extent, though it may not be significant enough for normal functioning...

There has been only one recorded test subject/case study to date that was qualified enough to answer such a question. He used steroids without cycling, and with very little off time for 25 years, namely one Jose Conseco. In this 10/08 program (http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode...isodeid=369154) we learned that his Test levels were very low, and although NOT completely shut down, they were however too low to prevent ED (Erectile Dysfunction), to properly stimulate his libido, or to permit normal energy levels. According to his last Test measurements, he was only minimally responding to TRT, and still greatly suppressed.

[LATS60]

The answer is a profound “NO"!
The body will ALWAYS recover to some extent, though it may not be significant enough for normal functioning...

There has been only one recorded test subject/case study to date that was qualified enough to answer such a question. He used steroids without cycling, and with very little off time for 25 years, namely one Jose Conseco. In this 10/08 program (http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode...isodeid=369154) we learned that his Test levels were very low, and although NOT completely shut down, they were however too low to prevent ED (Erectile Dysfunction), to properly stimulate his libido, or to permit normal energy levels. According to his last Test measurements, he was only minimally responding to TRT, and still greatly suppressed.

Wow, thats a pretty concrete opinion to base on one study. Don't we all react differently?

[DrSauce99]

My buddy was on for 14 years staright, did some HCG and PCT and knocked his girl up. Hes back on Test again and feels great...

What about all the pro athletes that have kids?

Why wouldnt conesco respond to TRT? that makes no sense.

[UncleD]

My buddy was on for 14 years staright, did some HCG and PCT and knocked his girl up. Hes back on Test again and feels great...

What about all the pro athletes that have kids?

Why wouldnt conesco respond to TRT? that makes no sense.

yes makes 0 sence to me either... he should respond, seeing guys who had nut cancer and have no balls are on test for life on live normaly exept havin to shoot test EW or older people who go to doc or reguvination clinics and respond fine and are on for 10-12-30+ years of TRT and are fine i think its BS

[UncleD]

if doing test a long time destroys your ability to respond to test injects even TRT doses then all the pro bodybuilders are screwd and will turn into testless he/shes right? its all BS

[LATS60]

My buddy was on for 14 years staright, did some HCG and PCT and knocked his girl up. Hes back on Test again and feels great...

What about all the pro athletes that have kids?

Why wouldnt conesco respond to TRT? that makes no sense.

Like i said, it's possible. Whats conesco and TRT got to do with anything?

[LATS60]

if doing test a long time destroys your ability to respond to test injects even TRT doses then all the pro bodybuilders are screwd and will turn into testless he/shes right? its all BS

Huh, what do you mean!!!!! respond to test injects, respond in what way???

[fitguy]

http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/2/373

"EFFECT OF LONG-TERM TESTOSTERONE OENANTHATE ADMINISTRATION ON MALE REPRODUCTIVE FUNCTION: CLINICAL EVALUATION, SERUM FSH, LH, TESTOSTERONE, AND SEMINAL FLUID ANALYSES IN NORMAL MEN
J. Mauss, G. Börsch, K. Bormacher, E. Richter, G. Leyendecker and W. Nocke

The effect of long-term testosterone administration on male reproductive function has been investigated in seven healthy young men age 20 to 27 years. Testosterone oenanthate (TOe) was administered in doses of 250 mg per week for 21 weeks. No toxic side-effects were observed. Libido, sexual potency, frequency of sexual intercourse and body hair development generally remained unaffected, but there was a reversible mean weight gain of 3.6 kg during TOe administration. Seminal fluid parameters and radioimmunoassayable serum FSH, LH, testosterone, and androstenedione levels were monitored before, during, and after TOe administration. The serum testosterone rose approximately by a factor of two, while the serum FSH and LH were rapidly suppressed after the initiation of the TOe therapy. The mean sperm concentration fell to values below three million spermatozoa per ml, and changes in sperm motility, the percentage of normal sperm morphology, and seminal fructose concentrations generally paralleled those of the mean sperm concentrations. In contrast, the mean seminal fluid volume and serum androstenedione levels did not change significantly during TOe administration. The mean sperm concentration showed a marked recovery 13 to 16 weeks after TOe withdrawal, but sperm counts remained below pre-treatment levels in three out of seven subjects 25 to 28 weeks after discontinuation of TOe."

so does that mean that 3 out of 7 got low sperm count?

[Kale]

Like i said, it's possible. Whats conesco and TRT got to do with anything?

This is what he was referring too in magics post

According to his last Test measurements, he was only minimally responding to TRT, and still greatly suppressed

Makes no sense to me either

[MercyDog]

I'd like this answer before commiting $200 a year to a sperm bank.

[fitguy]

bump

[UncleD]

Huh, what do you mean!!!!! respond to test injects, respond in what way???

sorry lol let me clarify.. i was saying that a trt doseage should always work.. even if your nuts were GONE as in people who had cancer of nuts and have 0 nuts are one trt and funtion just fine so if you had nuts that were damaged test therapy would do its job regardless as in test would be in your system and enof to give you sex drive