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  1. #1
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    3 weeks left, please help with my finish

    Hello again. I have reported in at a few intervals during this cycle.
    The cycle has been 9 weeks so far
    week 1-4 dbol @40mg/day
    week 1-12 sust at 500mg/week (was at 2x week ,now at eod Manned up!)
    week 1-12 adex at .5mg eod
    week 5-14 anavar at 60mg /day.
    pct will be pro ,nolva and clom.

    So hows it been so far you ask..its been great cept for the last few weeks ,as I seemed to have plateaud,gains were good and size goal were met I have put on the mass I like and have nice shape for my arms and shoulders and decent improvements to my legs and chest this cycle (this is my second cycle and my diet has been much improved vs last cycle)but the bf has remained too high and I have tried to adjust the diet and increase the cardio over the last two weeks but to no avail.
    I have too much stomach flab...it feels diffeent though...its very loose.

    Is it possible that its not just fat anymore but water retention?
    Why am I retaining water then ...it can not be the var ,so it must be the sust?

    I am wanting some help in how to try and really shed the fat / water in these last few weeks....
    I have cut down my calories to just maintenance level of 2300 cal and I have increased my cardio to 45 min/day 6 days a week. but the flab is still there..
    So is it wise to cut down on calories by taking out some carb intake or trying the keto diets carb reduced days?
    The cyle was timed to have my last injection right when I leave for my tropical vacation then the two weeks I wait for the sust to clear before I start pct will be spent on the beach, so I want to look a lot more lean then I am at today and I have only 3 weeks till I go. I do prioritize looking lean over size so I would actually even be prepared to go catabolic to shed this chub...
    Will lowering my sust (since my gains have slowed) help to get rid of the water and subsequent soft look.
    How do you recommend I end my cycle to rid myself of the soft look I still have.
    Please note that I have read and learned alot more this cycle and have shown diet and cardio the respect they deserve, but I am not figuring it out and with only 3 weeks left I am getting worried about my finished look,so please help a guy out.I have applied all the thinking I can and still I am missing the mark....
    Last edited by sonysucks; 12-14-2008 at 03:51 PM.

  2. #2
    daem's Avatar
    daem is offline Anabolic Member
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    Post your diet and macronutrient ratios and we'll help you optimize.

    Also, you might need to bump cardio up to 2x / ED even with your cals.

  3. #3
    sitries is offline Associate Member
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    if you reduce you calories too much arent you worried that you will lose some of the muscle mass that youv been achieving over the last 2months?

  4. #4
    fit4ever180's Avatar
    fit4ever180 is offline Member
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    2300 calories is not much at all even if you are trying cut...
    lets see your diet and stats

  5. #5
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    Sitries , Of course I dont want that ,but NO I am not afraid to...soft and big is not my goal...I want to be a lean mean middle aged machine
    Fit.yep its low but thats where I adjusted to...I was at 2800...you helped with my diet for this cycle...I was the guy who had the cookie in his diet...It was just one...of course its gone....

    8am 30 minutes cardio on empty stomach.

    meal 1) 9am breakfast
    2 whole and 4 eggs whites. cal 240 ..pro 26g ..carb .6g ..fat 13g
    1/2 cup oatmeal. cal 70 ..pro 3g ..carb 12g ..fat 1g
    1 slice of ww bread with natty PB and 1/3 banana
    cal 160 pro3g carb 34 fat 3.5g
    total CAL 470 ..PRO 32g ..CARB 46.6g ..FAT 17.5g
    cycle products taken here also.


    Meal 2 ) 11 am pre workout.
    1/2 shake
    Shake contains isolate proteins and a product called anabolic od which is a mix of crea tines ,simple carbs amino acids and 25 grams of hemp powder for efa 3-6-9
    meal 3) 12:00 post workout 1/2 shake
    TOTAL CAL 480 ..PRO 82g ..CARB 30G ..FAT 3G thats the total for the whole shake...half before and half after.

    meal 4) 2:00 lunch. at work now
    My work is low energy retail sales floor
    chicken breast. cal 110 ..pro 25g ..carb 1 g ..fat 1 g
    1 cup brown rice. cal 218 ..pro 5g ..carb 46g ..fat 2 g
    1/2 cup raw peas. cal 20 ..pro 2g ..carb 4 g ..fat0g
    TOTAL CAL 348 ..PRO 32g ..CARB 51G ..FAT 3g

    meal 5) 4:00 snack at work the other half of the above lunch plus
    1 protien bar. cal 290 ..pro 30g ..carb 25 ..fat 7g

    meal 6 ) 6-7 pm Dinner at home rotates chicken /salmon /beef with salad

    chicken ceasar salad. cal 300 ..pro 33g ..carb 17g ..fat 12
    TOTAL CAL 300 ..PRO 33g ..CARB 17g ..FAT 12 g

    Meal 7) just a snack really. its a handful of nuts and a few turkey peperoni sticks.
    200 cal pro 13g carb 3.5 g fat 13g

    meal 8) 10-11 pm evenings before bed.
    A handful of nuts for the efa and a casein protein shake with some hemp protein for the efas
    cal 310 pro 39g carb 16g fat 10.5g
    Okay so thats the day and on top of this I am taking 1 gallon of water and a couple coffees, The totals for the day are
    CAL 2100 PRO 222 g CARB 171 G FAT 55 g

    thats where I am at now since week 7. Up to week seven I was about
    CAL 2808 PRO 283 g CARB 217 G FAT 84 g.
    So as you can see I have cut consumption back in my thinking of how to ensure I lose the bloat. I have read and learned lots ,but at crunch time its our nature to fall back to what we are used to. Last cycle I was leaner and I ate light like I am now...so thats why I defaulted to this behaviour...if it s wrong then lets talk about it.
    stats . I am 42 and presently 189lbs up from my start at 175. I am 5'9"
    I have taken a few pics as I felt that more info means a better set of suggestions.

  6. #6
    T_Own's Avatar
    T_Own is offline Formula1 Aficionado
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    30 min of cardio doesn't seem like much.. for me thats just starting to break a sweat. i think more high intensity cardio or longer would help more.

  7. #7
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    I agree ,so I have added kickboxing twice a week and another 15-20 minutes in the evening 2 days a week.

  8. #8
    fit4ever180's Avatar
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    What's your BF currently and what do you want it to be? Realistically, if you are lose weight while saving as much muscle as possible, you should be losing only 6lbs. over 3 weeks... You could certainly lose more in this time frame, but you run the risk of sacrifing more muscle than fat

  9. #9
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    I am prepared to lose the muscle as a sacrifice to get down in BF. bigger but soft is not my goal.
    I dont know my bf%, but I can show you the pics so you can see, and maybe you can tell me.
    I cut the calories down for the last 2 weeks and saw little improvement,so for the last 2 days I have begun to apply a keto cycle as per D Duchaines book.
    1 day of reg macros,2 days of little carbs and then one day of heavy carbs...repeat.



  10. #10
    fit4ever180's Avatar
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    That's more of a cyclic keto diet, which in my opinion should just be considered a form of carb cycling and not keto at all... Just looking at your pics, I'd guess you are somewhere around 16% (others feel free to disagree with that guess)... Since you're just looking to shred fast, switch to a full on keto diet as it will drop a lot of water weight fast and over 3 weeks with cardio, you could drop 2-3% BF as well... Look up the keto diet thread by BIGTEXAN

  11. #11
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks fit, I have read it.
    It was a good read ,but it seem to impart to me that any variance would negate all benefits,and I felt I might not be able to keep to that strict of a regime,so for that reason I was scared off.

    this is me last year after my cycle...seemingly smaller but maybe leaner?

  12. #12
    daem's Avatar
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    I think you look better now...Chest is much more developed and you filled out the shoulders nicely.

    You need to be doing a better cardio regiment if you want to spare muscle while you continue to cut.

    Kickboxing isn't going to do anything for you...Spending 30-45 minutes on the treadmill in each session instead of going 2x 20 minutes...You need the extra time to deplete the glycogen stores before you'll start utilizing fat as energy for the session.

  13. #13
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    You know...cardio is tough...funny,its not the doing it...its the fitting it into a busy Xmas schedule.
    Okay so its going to be 45 minutes am and 20 minutes pm.
    Why is the kickboxing a no go...its a helluva workout ...one of the few things I have done that made me grin whilst I was sweating like a pig...
    Thanks daem. the chest and the legs are my weakest so I worked harder this year.
    Last edited by sonysucks; 12-14-2008 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #14
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    Btw What about diet adjustments...will mucho cardio on my maitanence diet put me into starvation?

  15. #15
    T_Own's Avatar
    T_Own is offline Formula1 Aficionado
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    i agree with daem, i think you look a lot more solid in the more recent pics. your stomach doesn't look all that fat, just like bulky abs. maybe higher reps on abs would help a little.

    kick boxing is hit or miss. i know when i wrestled i was shredded like crazy. i was down to like 6.5% by the end of the season when i had to cut to make weight, but if you don't have it for a few hours every day it wouldn't be much of a workout at all. especially if you aren't working on things by yourself, like if its all with a partner, its a lot harder to really kill yourself every time which is what you need to be doing to cut more.

    diet is up to you, plenty of ways you can go with it, but don't look to change it all in one week. you need ~500 calories less than you use a day to burn a pound of fat a week, so take your time on it. losing a little muscle isn't a big problem, but if you rush it will be.

  16. #16
    fit4ever180's Avatar
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    Agree with daem and T-own... You do look a lot better in your recent pics than the one of you a year ago... That keto diet is fairly difficult to adhere to, so you are wise in not doing it if you don't think you can handle the strict dietary guidleines required... The reason why daem said the kickboxing is likely not as beneficial is not because it's a poor form of cardio, more the fact that you are only doing it in 20 minute intervals... You need to do it at least 30, but 45 would be even better... At extended durations of cardio (to an extent), you rbody becomes glycogen deficient and thus resorts to burning fat for energy... By the sound of your current diet and possible difficulties with keto, carb cycling is likely your best route... You try to make the bulk of these come in the form of green veggies though...

  17. #17
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    Dans book may oversimplify carb cycling,so I will do some searching here....it just states one day at normal carb and protein levels then two at a bit higher protein and very little carbs and then one day with reg pro and high carbs...I can put that together.
    I will make the time then to do one hour of cardio at one sitting.
    Thanks for the observations , it is helpful.

  18. #18
    daem's Avatar
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    Invest in a heart rate monitor if you plan on continuing your journey after this vacation.

    You'd be amazed at the results of 45 min - 1 hr of cardio @ 70-75% of your MHR on an empty stomach. That, coupled with clean diet, will get rid of your fat.

  19. #19
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    My recumbant has it built in. I make sure to keep it around 115 -125 bpm.

  20. #20
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    Got the hour in this am and then worked out in the evening. Maybe a bit more cardio after ,but I had my pwo protein shake and I thought that I had read that you should not go workout -eat-cardio?

  21. #21
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    I have read about the benefits of carb cycling in fat loss and losing retained water, so thats sounds like the answer...it will take some planning an dedication...

  22. #22
    sonysucks is offline Associate Member
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    trying thr carb cycling...no carbs at all cept whats in the protien and fats from the chicken and nuts and natty pb and a bit of lettuce

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