Not Gaining on Second Cycle and Planning Third

[LizzardSecond]

I am 31, 6' 208lb 11% body fat

My first cycle was 625mg of Sustanon per week for 12 weeks. I started at around 173lb and 14% body fat and finished at 205lb and 11% body fat. I ate the way I am eating now and gained a ton in 12 weeks. Total weight gain 32lb

My PCT was
HCG 500iu EOD for 14 days
20mg of Novaldex 42 days
12.5mg of Aromasin for 30 days

Off for 18 weeks

2nd Cycle
10 weeks of Test E 500mg/week
10 weeks HCG 200iu EOD
PCT
100mg ED Clomid
20mg ED Novaldex
25mg ED Aromasin. (all 30 days)

Starting weight 200lb bf 12-13%
current weight (10 days in) 207lb

I am now almost 5 weeks in and my weight is fluctuating around 208lb. Up to 210 and then back down. I was hoping to finish around 215lb to 220lb.

My third cycle i am also planning and have been going back and forth with it. This one I am planning to start the day after my current cycle ends and my PCT begins.

3 months of HGH (5iu/day) solo
12 weeks of Test at 585mg/week (injecting Every 3 days 250mg)
200iu of HCG
3 months of HGH (5iu/day) continued
then
42 days of PCT
20mg of Novaldex
25mg of Aromasin
100mg of Clomid



My Diet: (2 sample days) I write it all down
Breakfast:
1/2 Tub of 0% FAGE yougart
3/4 cup of Oatmeal with Milk

Meal 2:
12oz of Chillian Sea Bass and 1/2 pint Brown Rice

Meal 3:
2 slices of double protein bread with Hummess
2 cans of tuna

Meal 4:
1/2 package of smoked salmon
dry tst pita
3 slices of tomato

Meal 5:
Steam chicken and vegetables
4 vegetable dumplings (no sauce)
1/2 pint brown rice

Meal 6
8oz of steak
2 stalks of broccoli
3 meatballs 8oz
1 sweet potato

Breakfast:
1/2 cup oatmeal
3/4 tub of 0% FAGE yougart

Meal 2
10oz of Grilled dry chicken
dry toasted pita with roasted peppers

Meal 3
10oz of broiled dry swordfish
1/2 pint of brown rice

Meal 4
12oz broiled dry salmon
1/2 pint of brown rice

Meal 5
6oz of multigrain pasta
7.5 oz of grilled chicken with broccoli

[Big]

why 10 weeks of hcg at 200iu eod?
why a higher test dose for longer time on cycle 1, then drop it and run it for less time on cycle 2?

[LizzardSecond]

I got acne from first. I started this cycle at 650 too and started getting acne again. Iblowrred the dose and the acne Dissapeared.

[PT]

i was going to ask the same thing as big. i would never use hcg that long, there is no need and it unsafe

[LizzardSecond]

I have read on this board that keeping your testicles awake during your cycle is more effective for rebounding.

[PT]

yea shoot it the last 2 weeks of your cycle and 1st week of pct but not eod for 10 weeks. hcg can cause gyno which is why an ancillary is usually used with it

[LizzardSecond]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=362353

[adimenia]

yeah i agree and thats maybe the reason your not gaining not to mention that test e only starts to kick in in about 4-5 weeks your PCT in an overkill for the type of cycle your running aromasin nolva HCG and clomid geez man those things are not candy you know

[Big]

Yeah I wonder how many cycles the guy who wrote that article has run? I wonder if he's tried using the hcg at the end of the cycle the way PT, myself, and many, many others have done? I wonder if he realizes when applied to bodybuilding, the desired results can be achieved much sooner than with his method? Come to think of it I don't really wonder, I know what works because I've done it many times.

[LizzardSecond]

So your saying to run the HCG only at the end. So many conflicting articles about this stuff. I tried it at the end of my last cycle. My test production was a bit low during my bloodwork that was done 18 weeks after cycle. I read alot about this method and was curious to see if there was a benefit to running this way. How many IU's do you run in the last two weeks of cycle and first week of pct.

My pct is overkill? Everyone says that its a good PCT.

The diet? Plus I have the same or similar workout routine.

[rich1234]

Listen to the big guys...

[PT]

if your doing a long cycle with 19nors then yes you may use it every 3rd, 4th week or whatever but for a cycle like yours the end is the only place hcg is needed

[LizzardSecond]

OK. How much at the end? More than 200, no? I have read 500 2x per week.

So why am I not gaining?

[fitguy]

your gear didnt kick in yet i believe and i dont see the problem of using 200iu each week during the cycle i know that guys use it 250iu twice per week from the start to the end and some just use it in the end..

[redz]

Not trying to change the subject but I have some doubts about this claim.

started at around 173lb and 14% body fat and finished at 205lb and 11% body fat.

That would be about 40lbs of lean muscle gained in 12 weeks.

[Kratos]

Not trying to change the subject but I have some doubts about this claim.



That would be about 40lbs of lean muscle gained in 12 weeks.

haha, yeah, that didn't happen

205x.11=22.55pounds of fat
173 x .14 = 24.22 pounds of fat
gain 32 pounds while losing 2 pounds of fat
damn newbies always streatching the truth
"son, you don't lie to me, you lie to girls." --rodney dangerfield

[LizzardSecond]

I am not lying. No reason to do that. My body fat % is an estimation based on measuring my fat at the gym before the second cycle started.

I gained Alot because I was not eating right before my cycle started. I also had been lifting again for only six months.

Anyhow, even if it is not lean muscle mass it is weight gained. I am not seeing these gains so far this cycle. I do think it may be the compound being used. The sustanon did have a faster and sooner pump feeling.

Is it safe to begin the third cycle this way?

[sitries]

add an oral into the last 6weeks of your cycle and maximise the cycle your on! no need to jump straight into another 1. tbh, if you do i doubt you will gain well on it at all eather.

[redz]

if you do i doubt you will gain well on it at all eather.

x2 something is wrong with your diet or taining if you arent gaining at all. Test is Test.

[sitries]

yeah, plus his body wont be ready or primed for another cycle and the gains will be minimal!!! throw in an oral to give you a boost and up your calories.

[fitguy]

i wouldnt advise running an oral at this time,test p can be a better option run it till pct then start your pct.

[Phate]

I am 31, 6' 208lb 11% body fat

My Diet: (2 sample days) I write it all down
Breakfast:
1/2 Tub of 0% FAGE yougart
3/4 cup of Oatmeal with Milk
what are the stats on the yougart? i would change it to 8-10egg whites
Meal 2:
12oz of Chillian Sea Bass and 1/2 pint Brown Rice
stats on the rice?
Meal 3:
2 slices of double protein bread with Hummess
2 cans of tuna

Meal 4:
1/2 package of smoked salmon
dry tst pita
3 slices of tomato
stats on salmon, whole wheat pita? probably gonna double this meal
Meal 5:
Steam chicken and vegetables
4 vegetable dumplings (no sauce)
1/2 pint brown rice
stats on dumplings?
Meal 6
8oz of steak
2 stalks of broccoli
3 meatballs 8oz
1 sweet potato
stats on meatballs? how many oz is the potato?


Breakfast:
1/2 cup oatmeal
3/4 tub of 0% FAGE yougart

Meal 2
10oz of Grilled dry chicken
dry toasted pita with roasted peppers

Meal 3
10oz of broiled dry swordfish
1/2 pint of brown rice

Meal 4
12oz broiled dry salmon
1/2 pint of brown rice

Meal 5
6oz of multigrain pasta
7.5 oz of grilled chicken with broccoli

bold

[LizzardSecond]

The FAGE 0% yougart I eat is in 1/2 tub of 0g of fat, 9g of carbs, 20g of protein.

1/2 bag of multi-grain brown rice is 1g of fat, 33g of carbs, 4g of protein

I don't know on the salmon. It's from the supermarket, I always get the potatoes that are just smaller than a fist

[Phate]

My Diet: (2 sample days) I write it all down
Breakfast:
1/2 Tub of 0% FAGE yougart
3/4 cup of Oatmeal with Milk
add 6egg whites to this meal
Meal 2:
12oz of Chillian Sea Bass and 1/2 pint Brown Rice
double the brown rice and drop the sea bass to 10oz(or around 50-60g of protein worth)
Meal 3:
2 slices of double protein bread with Hummess
2 cans of tuna

Meal 4:
1/2 package of smoked salmon
dry tst pita
3 slices of tomato
double the salmon
Meal 5:
Steam chicken and vegetables
4 vegetable dumplings (no sauce)
1/2 pint brown rice

Meal 6
8oz of steak
2 stalks of broccoli
3 meatballs 8oz
1 sweet potato
i would do this meal earlier and have a pro/fat meal here

[LizzardSecond]

What is a pro/fat meal? Why should I double the carbs. Some people believe carbs are bad. Than others I know say 100g carbs 50g of protein.

Thanks for the help.

[Phate]

What is a pro/fat meal? Why should I double the carbs. Some people believe carbs are bad. Than others I know say 100g carbs 50g of protein.

Thanks for the help.

and those people are morons, carbs are essential to weightlifting and growth

a pro/fat meal is a meal that has protein and fats

[LizzardSecond]

Example? Steak? Fish?

[LizzardSecond]

Can I eat pasta, bread. I eat Italian bread and 6 eggwhites many times as a snack.

[Phate]

Example? Steak? Fish?

steak and 1/4cup of nuts

full fat cottage cheese

lean meat with fish oil caps

[Phate]

Can I eat pasta, bread. I eat Italian bread and 6 eggwhites many times as a snack.

italian bread is not all that good as it's white bread, whole wheat or ezekiel bread is okay

whole wheat pasta is okay

[LizzardSecond]

Why full fat?

[Phate]

Why full fat?

because if you eat non-fat cottage cheese then it's not a pro/fat meal, it's a protein meal

[lovex]

I have read on this board that keeping your testicles awake during your cycle is more effective for rebounding.

as u r using HcG during the cycle ..do it really helping you from avoiding testicular degeneration....
can u pls say your experience

[LizzardSecond]

My testicles feel and look full. I also had a problem reaching ejaculation with the first cycle. Not orgasm but ejaculation. This cycle I have experienced less. Although it is not advised I will be continuing the 200iu EOD.

After my cycle I am going to do a comparison on my natural test production.