get me started

[the wee moth]

profile:

age 22

weight 65kg

height 5.7'

bobyfat 8%

time training 1.5 yrs

6 nites a week

diet excellent 40% carbs 40% protien 20% fat
eat 6 times a day and getting about 4200 cals on averag

steroid experiance (zero)

sample workouts.....

chest (mon)

bench press
42.5 x 10
52.5 x 8
62.5 x 5
72.5 x 3

dunbell press
24kg x 8
26kg x 6
28kg x 4
30kg x 2

flys
16kg x 8
18kg x 6
20kg x 4
22kg x 2

dunbell pull-overs
20kg x 10
24kg x 8
26kg x 6

deadlifts
92.5kg x 8
122.5kg x 3
132.5kg x 2

preacher curls
10kg x 10
15kg x 8
17.5kg x 6
20kg x 4
17.5 kg x 6
15kg x 8
10kg x 10

standing dunbell curls
10kg x 10
12kg x 8
14kg x 6
15 mins of abs excersises

i like to mix it up with abs trying 2 hit them from all angles

6 mins on treadmill


legs (tue)

squats
52.5kg x 12
62.5kg x 10
72.5kg x 8
72.5kg x 8
82.5kg x 6
92.5kg x 4
102.5kg x 4

leg extentions
50kg x 10
60kg x 8
65kg x 6
70kg x 5

leg press
150kg x 10
180kg x 8
210kg x 6
240kg x 4
260kg x 3

deadlifts
92.5kg x 8
112.5kg x 5
132.5kg x 2

dunbell kickbacks
10kg x 10 x 3

tricep cable pushdows with rope
17.5kg x 10 x 3
15 mins of abs training

6 mins cycling

shoulders and traps (wed)

front raises super seted dunbell shrugs
6kg x 15 20kg x 15
8kg x 10 22kg x 10
10kg x 8 24kg x 8
12kg x 6 26kg x 6

side raises ss barbell shrugs (rear)
10kg x 10 52.5kg x 15
10kg x 10 62.5kg x 10
10kg x 10 72.5kg x 8
10kg x 10 82.5kg x 6

reverse flys ss clean and press
6kg x 10 32.5kg x 10
8kg x 10 42.5kg x 8
10kg x 8 42.5kg x 8
12kg x 6 52.5kg x 3

15 mins abs

6mins treadmill

back

T-bar rows
30kg x 10
40kg x 8
50kg x 6
60kg x 5
70kg x 3
rapid stripping
60kg x 3
50kg x 5
40kg x 7

wide grip cable rowing
20kg x 10
30kg x 8
40kg x 6
30kg x 8
30kg x 8

dunbell rows
20kg x10 x 3

pull ups
10 reps x 4

deadlifts
92.5 kg x 8
112.5 kgs x 5
132.5 x 2

15 mins of abs excersise

6mins rowing

chest (fri)

legs (sat)

rest (sun)


anyway im wondering if anybody with any experiance could help me work out
my first steroid cycle.

amounts to take considering my weight, best brands, when to take before or after work out, what to look out for anything will be much apreciated but what i really need is help to build a program.

constructive critisism welcome but support and education is what im after.


so let me know if you have anythin that you think will help.


and cheers

[PT]

if your dead stuck on using then find some test cyp or enth and jump on 500mgs a week for 12 weeks

[XD40]

Ill point you in the right direction. ***TEST ONLY CYCLE*** CYP OR E ONLY. now go do some research on those compounds.

[UrRoyalHighness]

I would say as i am sure I will get seconded Test E 500 per week split into 2 shot mon and thursday and at your bf% I would invest on getting some winni as well and run it the last 4-5 weeks. get a good PCT and that should be a good begginner. You can always leave out the winni and just do the test. You will still get huge as long as you continue to eat like that

[*RAGE*]

workout looks good but read will do you just as much as you lift and its not just about lifting weights it about diet so read there to...

[eatrainrest]

your overtraining... heres a quick run through i can give you with how many sets you should do per body part
chest-6-8
back-8-10
quads-8-10
hams-3-4
calves-3
bis-3-5
tris-4-6
abs-1-2(smaller muscle group, run more frequently) ex. 2-3x week

[the wee moth]

loving the comments so far guys keep them coming!
taking a break sat - sun, will try and digest
sum of this on mon evening and take it from there.

cheers

[chuckt12345]

your overtraining... heres a quick run through i can give you with how many sets you should do per body part
chest-6-8
back-8-10
quads-8-10
hams-3-4
calves-3
bis-3-5
tris-4-6
abs-1-2(smaller muscle group, run more frequently) ex. 2-3x week

....

[Phate]

your overtraining... heres a quick run through i can give you with how many sets you should do per body part
chest-6-8
back-8-10
quads-8-10
hams-3-4
calves-3
bis-3-5
tris-4-6
abs-1-2(smaller muscle group, run more frequently) ex. 2-3x week

where did you get this^^^^ it's completely off

[RuhlFreak55]

your overtraining... heres a quick run through i can give you with how many sets you should do per body part
chest-6-8
back-8-10
quads-8-10
hams-3-4
calves-3
bis-3-5
tris-4-6
abs-1-2(smaller muscle group, run more frequently) ex. 2-3x week

right.......overtraining is a myth...only undereating.....sets i do per bodypart:

chest 30-35
back 30-35
quads 20
hams 15
calves 10
bis 15-20
tris 15-20
abs 12-15

[RuhlFreak55]

and i would say you should be able to add more mass naturally still with a good amount of calories.....if i did my math right you're not even 150 pounds! i don't care if your bodyfat is zero that's friggin LIGHT for someone that's 5'8

[honda450]

143 lbs.. :/
You need to gain alot more weight I think and then start. I am 5'10 195 and I don't feel like I'm ready yet?

But..
Test E 500mg/wk
Mon/Thurs
PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 20/20/20/20

[Phate]

right.......overtraining is a myth...only undereating.....sets i do per bodypart:

chest 30-35
back 30-35
quads 20
hams 15
calves 10
bis 15-20
tris 15-20
abs 12-15

this is even worse than the other one, overtraining is definitely not a myth, go ask MuscleScience

[RuhlFreak55]

oh i forgot shoulders and traps....

shoulders : 30-35
traps: 10
forearms: 10

and overtraining may exist i guess.....but not in me, everyone is different

[Phate]

oh i forgot shoulders and traps....

shoulders : 30-35
traps: 10
forearms: 10

and overtraining may exist i guess.....but not in me, everyone is different

if you think so, but i think you need to rethink your training intensity, i did legs yesterday and only did 15sets total and had to sit down and stretch for 20minutes before i could even walk, if you can do 30-35sets of chest and you are staying in the same rep range with the the same weights then something is off, because after 45-60minutes you're creatine phosphate stores are almost tapped

[RuhlFreak55]

if you think so, but i think you need to rethink your training intensity, i did legs yesterday and only did 15sets total and had to sit down and stretch for 20minutes before i could even walk, if you can do 30-35sets of chest and you are staying in the same rep range with the the same weights then something is off, because after 45-60minutes you're creatine phosphate stores are almost tapped

well hell no you can't maintain the same weights throughout that. Hypertrophy, the goal is to fatigue a muscle as much as possible, destroy it so it grows back bigger....you're not going to get the maximum out of that if you stop training once you can't maintain 100% intensity

[Phate]

well hell no you can't maintain the same weights throughout that. Hypertrophy, the goal is to fatigue a muscle as much as possible, destroy it so it grows back bigger....you're not going to get the maximum out of that if you stop training once you can't maintain 100% intensity

well i agree there, anyway, we can debate this some other time and place, i think it would be a very informative debate if we got several people to participate


either way though, i don't think telling someone who is relatively new that overtraining is a myth is a good idea, as it's definitely not a myth

[RuhlFreak55]

well i agree there, anyway, we can debate this some other time and place, i think it would be a very informative debate if we got several people to participate


either way though, i don't think telling someone who is relatively new that overtraining is a myth is a good idea, as it's definitely not a myth

ok ok....point taken...newbies shouldn't touch that kind of volume.

[eatrainrest]

where did you get this^^^^ it's completely off

from being nationally certified as a personal trainer..,

[eatrainrest]

right.......overtraining is a myth...only undereating.....sets i do per bodypart:

chest 30-35
back 30-35
quads 20
hams 15
calves 10
bis 15-20
tris 15-20
abs 12-15

that is overtraining, and no it is not a myth but that is for another thread for another time

[Phate]

your overtraining... heres a quick run through i can give you with how many sets you should do per body part
chest-6-8
back-8-10
quads-8-10
hams-3-4
calves-3
bis-3-5
tris-4-6
abs-1-2(smaller muscle group, run more frequently) ex. 2-3x week

where did you get this^^^^ it's completely off

from being nationally certified as a personal trainer..,

actually, let me rephrase, that set volume is fine for a beginner, but advance bbs(like the ones that are ready for cycles) would not make optimum gains from that kind of training volume

[eatrainrest]

its not about the amount of sets its about the intensity level, anything at 100 percent within those set ranges will do the job... its all about hitting different muscle fibers to confuse the body. example- 6 sets of chest at 100 percent intensity in the 4 rep range will maximize white twitch muscle fibers.. now eventually that will platuea and you can simply start to add some sets of 12 reps to maxmize red fast twitch muscle fibers.. i do agree it is much different for a beginner than an advanced body builder but the set ranges shoudl never change.. intensity and different rep ranges to hit different muscle fibers should... on AAS the only different thing i would to is work at 110 percent intensity with a great spotting partner to kick up the intensity but would never go out of the set ranges that i listed... people pay top dollar for this kind of stuff

[Phate]

its not about the amount of sets its about the intensity level, anything at 100 percent within those set ranges will do the job... its all about hitting different muscle fibers to confuse the body. example- 6 sets of chest at 100 percent intensity in the 4 rep range will maximize white twitch muscle fibers.. now eventually that will platuea and you can simply start to add some sets of 12 reps to maxmize red fast twitch muscle fibers.. i do agree it is much different for a beginner than an advanced body builder but the set ranges shoudl never change.. intensity and different rep ranges to hit different muscle fibers should... on AAS the only different thing i would to is work at 110 percent intensity with a great spotting partner to kick up the intensity but would never go out of the set ranges that i listed... people pay top dollar for this kind of stuff

i understand what you are saying, but 6-8 sets for me doesn't do the trick for a major muscle group no matter what intensity i use, even incorporating drop sets, stop sets, split sets, supersets, etc.... 6-8 seems to work well for a secondary muscle group though, i just find that my gains increased when i started increasing my volume to 10-12 sets for a major muscle group, but everyone is different

[eatrainrest]

agreed, everybody is different, nobody can tell you exactly what will work for you but (from knowledge and personal experience) i previously had done 12 sets of chest/back and at times switched the routine, problem was i wasnt gaining anymore. Then i dropped the sets down half from 12 to 6 and did 4 reps at 100 percent intensity and gained 30 pounds on bench in one month... and im not a beginner. So, my advice would be do what works best for you, if its not broken why fix it? but those rep ranges is what is strongly recommended by trainers and i stick to it... as mentioned you will plateu eventually its all about switching up the routine... you are not overly doing it anyway you said 10-12 well a major muscle group (back) you can do 10 and as mentioned before for chest i would stick to 8... remember only a portion happens in the gym the rest is outside... diet/rest/stress/hydration.. etc. but somebody mentioned doing 30 sets of chest and i had no choice but to comment

[Phate]

agreed, everybody is different, nobody can tell you exactly what will work for you but (from knowledge and personal experience) i previously had done 12 sets of chest/back and at times switched the routine, problem was i wasnt gaining anymore. Then i dropped the sets down half from 12 to 6 and did 4 reps at 100 percent intensity and gained 30 pounds on bench in one month... and im not a beginner. So, my advice would be do what works best for you, if its not broken why fix it? but those rep ranges is what is strongly recommended by trainers and i stick to it... as mentioned you will plateu eventually its all about switching up the routine... you are not overly doing it anyway you said 10-12 well a major muscle group (back) you can do 10 and as mentioned before for chest i would stick to 8... remember only a portion happens in the gym the rest is outside... diet/rest/stress/hydration.. etc. but somebody mentioned doing 30 sets of chest and i had no choice but to comment

yeah i agree about 30 being way too much, next time i start to plateau i'll try it and see how it works,

[eatrainrest]

id be more than happy to give you a workout to try and you can give me feedback on it

[njemarine98]

The thing for me is i feel the pump more after the 8 to 10th set i work 15 to 20 sets per muscle group.... anything less and i dont feel like ive worked anything is that a genetic thing? size thing? level of experience?

[njemarine98]

6 sets you mean literally if i was working chest id go in warm up than do basically 6 sets total meaning 2 work outs basically hypothetically say incline dumbell press and barbell flat bench and your done?

[eatrainrest]

The thing for me is i feel the pump more after the 8 to 10th set i work 15 to 20 sets per muscle group.... anything less and i dont feel like ive worked anything is that a genetic thing? size thing? level of experience?

Its called the pump swell and the more sets, higher rep range that you work in more blood accumulates in the muscle giving it that pump... it doesnt mean anything just makes you look bigger for the time being...

This shoudl definately be in another thread but ill give you what i got now

*stick to the rep ranges i listed for this
-chest 6-8 sets of 4 reps to your max.. not assisted help.. strict form... once you get 6 reps on your own bump the weight until you can only get 4 perfect max reps again.. this is known as the overload training principle...
-give yourself about minute and half break between sets
-try this for about 3-4 weeks and see where you get IF you start to plateua throw some 12-15 rep sets in .. same principle- do 15 reps and once you do move the weight up until you can only get 12 max NO ASSISTED HELP-12-15 reps will maximize red fast twitch muscle fibers (stamina) which is different than 4-6 reps (strength), which target your white twitch

You can do this for back and legs as well but be smart you dont want to do 4 reps of upright rows because of the increased risk of injury.. or heavy dumbell curls, etc.

hope this helps some

[eatrainrest]

6 sets you mean literally if i was working chest id go in warm up than do basically 6 sets total meaning 2 work outs basically hypothetically say incline dumbell press and barbell flat bench and your done?

it can go something liek this

-5 minute warmup

Chest (7 total sets)
1 warmup fairly light
3 sets flat bench (4 reps)
3 sets incline bench (4 reps)
CHEST IS DONE

if platuead try something like this

1 warmup set
3 sets flat dumbell(4 reps)
3 sets incline barbell (last 2 sets 12-15 reps) to target diff muscle fibers

[ray0414]

it can go something liek this

-5 minute warmup

Chest (7 total sets)
1 warmup fairly light
3 sets flat bench (4 reps)
3 sets incline bench (4 reps)
CHEST IS DONE

if platuead try something like this

1 warmup set
3 sets flat dumbell(4 reps)
3 sets incline barbell (last 2 sets 12-15 reps) to target diff muscle fibers

that wouldnt even give me a pump lol

[RuhlFreak55]

it can go something liek this

-5 minute warmup

Chest (7 total sets)
1 warmup fairly light
3 sets flat bench (4 reps)
3 sets incline bench (4 reps)
CHEST IS DONE

if platuead try something like this

1 warmup set
3 sets flat dumbell(4 reps)
3 sets incline barbell (last 2 sets 12-15 reps) to target diff muscle fibers

that would make me shrink.....you can't apply the idiocy they teach you as a personal trainer to bodybuilding. I'm also nationally certified by the way.

[mx3]

dan duchaine had a theory like this where he beleived you could even promote muscle growth with 2 sets to failure and 2-3 reps beyond. I however do not agree with this ive tried it. 6 sets may be ok for someone who is just beginning or not serious in bb and doing half or whole body circuits at a time but this method is not optimul for serious trainers. also in that chest routin where is your decline? your telling me you can get to a competitive level by never working decline or flyes? You would have to be very genetically gifted. also 30 sets for anything is definately overtraining. your gentics may allow you to make gains with that approach but you are shorting yourself of muscle growth. imo neither of your guys approach is right. You may be able to make gains with both of those training methods but your gains could be better with 9-16 set per muscle group depending on the muscle taking every set to failure.

[the wee moth]

ok guys cheers for all the comments. they have helped!

honda 450.... im one of those people that find it hard to put the pounds on.
my body is more of a bruce lee than a lee preist!

and i am very happy with this (ripped)

overtraining hahaha

love my training wud find it hard 2 do less work im very determind in my my ambitions

overtraining or just training as i wud call it - this most probably torches to many calories to put lots of weight on fast, building a more defined compact muscle wich are explosive muscles with very good endurance!

and anuthor thing i want to touch on is. the top guys the schwarzeneggers and the bruce lees of the world! people who had no boundaries in what they could achieve, trained two and even three times a day in my veiw you get out what you put in. if you have the drive too train long hard long hours and need to supplement with steroids to acheive this then so be it.

eatrainsleep. are your results from you training routine getting you the results that you strive too achieve? if so what are they? im intruiged.....!

for all the people that did comment on steroids many thanks will do my home work and ask sum more questions!

feel free to make sum more comments

cheers to all

[eatrainrest]

like i said everybody is different there is no such thing as "its good for a beginner", because a similiar workout has given clients (BB's with experience results)...Now... that was a quick sample, obviously would consider other motions but sticking to something consistent for 3-4 weeks wouldnt be a bad idea. If its not broke dont fix it-cant say it any better its just advice given by someone accredible enough to give it... i had to comment somebody telling another to do 30-35 sets thats just insane... and overtraining is not a myth liek some people think...