Updated second cycle. What you think?

[AaronK]

My stats are 190-198lbs, 26 years old training for 10 years. did one cycle before...

Here is my second. What do you think?

TEST/AAS cycle
Week 1-12 Test enanthate 500-600mg/wk

Week 1-12 Deca 400mg/wk

3 weeks waiting for ester to clear to start pct
week 13-15 Test prop (to even out the PCT start times to 21 days and stopping prop 3 days prior to PCT to make the test even with deca in regard to pct start time)

Week 13-15 HGC 500ui/day
week13-15 Nolvadex (20mg/day) or clomid (50mg/day)

PCT Start
week 16-18 Nolva (20-25mg/day) or clomid 50-100mg/day
Week16-18 Arimadex or aromasin (20-25mg/day)

What you guys think?

Was reading things on Nolva vs clomid so dont know what way to go there?

Also am trying to research what options i have for packets and sizes available for my pct. As in do they come in a packet of 30 tabs @ the required daily dose per tab or need to take two etc.... Im in Australia if that helps. Cause i need to know how many packets of the PCT items sizes and strengths. Its better if i know exactly the packs i need then go searching. Help?

[MMArmour]

nolva comes in 20mg/tab. clomid 50mg/tab. so i run pct like this

I take one injection of hcg with my last injection and continue weekly until i start my pct @ 1500iu. (alittle over kill)
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50.

As for your cycle. I would suggest dropping the prop and simply running your test e 1-2 weeks longer than the deca to allow the decanoate ester to clear while having plenty of test support to fight off 19nor sides.

So id run for example

1-14wk 600mg/wk Test E
1-12wk 400mg/wk Deca
14-16wk 1500iu/wk HCG (ive seen it run at 500iu e4d also. many protocols for hcg. im just saying what worked for me)
16-20wk Nolva @ 40/40/20/20
16-20wk Clomid @ 100/100/50/50

You could likely only run 13 weeks of test instead of 14 and be just fine.
Also Deca will really shut you down hard. Might want to run the PCT an extra week.
I would have the adex on hand to combat estrogen sides as needed.


That my opinion.

[honda450]

nolva comes in 20mg/tab. clomid 50mg/tab. so i run pct like this

I take one injection of hcg with my last injection and continue weekly until i start my pct @ 1500iu. (alittle over kill)
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50.

As for your cycle. I would suggest dropping the prop and simply running your test e 1-2 weeks longer than the deca to allow the decanoate ester to clear while having plenty of test support to fight off 19nor sides.

So id run for example

1-14wk 600mg/wk Test E
1-12wk 400mg/wk Deca
14-16wk 1500iu/wk HCG (ive seen it run at 500iu e4d also. many protocols for hcg. im just saying what worked for me)
16-20wk Nolva @ 40/40/20/20
16-20wk Clomid @ 100/100/50/50

You could likely only run 13 weeks of test instead of 14 and be just fine.
Also Deca will really shut you down hard. Might want to run the PCT an extra week.


That my opinion.

Agreed. Run the Test for 14 and the Deca to 12. Drop the prop..

[chuckt12345]

u can run the prop out for the last few weeks but dont start any pct during it.

[MMArmour]

^^ absolutely. but for the interest of simplicity if you dont already have to prop just run the enth the whole way. if you only have the prop to cover ur ass for the last few weeks..by all means. use it.

[AaronK]

nolva comes in 20mg/tab. clomid 50mg/tab. so i run pct like this

I take one injection of hcg with my last injection and continue weekly until i start my pct @ 1500iu. (alittle over kill)
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50.

As for your cycle. I would suggest dropping the prop and simply running your test e 1-2 weeks longer than the deca to allow the decanoate ester to clear while having plenty of test support to fight off 19nor sides.

So id run for example

1-14wk 600mg/wk Test E
1-12wk 400mg/wk Deca
14-16wk 1500iu/wk HCG (ive seen it run at 500iu e4d also. many protocols for hcg. im just saying what worked for me)
16-20wk Nolva @ 40/40/20/20
16-20wk Clomid @ 100/100/50/50

You could likely only run 13 weeks of test instead of 14 and be just fine.
Also Deca will really shut you down hard. Might want to run the PCT an extra week.
I would have the adex on hand to combat estrogen sides as needed.


That my opinion.

Would you not start nolva or clomid when you start HCG? Then do a separate pct with the nolva/clomid separate? From what i read you would want a SERM and an AI during pct. Arent nolva and clomid both serms? From what i have read that is one of the protocols recommended (doing the estro blockers/lowerers and test increasers while waiting for ester to clear the body)

Do most ppl not do the clomid/nolva bit and just do hcg when waiting for ester to clear then do nolva/clomid after ester has cleared??

The part regarding just running test e for an extra week for two makes sense, dunno why that didnt cross my mind first. DER

[MMArmour]

You are right that nolvadex and clomid are both SERMS. Both are more effective at different things, though nolvadex is by far more effective on a mg to mg basis when compared to clomid, it is absolutely standard that these two SERMS a run along side each other in PCT. The HCG is run to add a much need kick start to the boys below and works via a totally different mechanism than do SERMS. HCG by itself is NOT a pct. I do not recommend running both a SERM and AI DURING cycle (tho some people do). I said have arimidex (AI) on hand to run during cycle if you begin experiencing estrogen related sides.

[Paul_Best]

Cant you run a-dex through out the cycle and then clomid and nolvadex for pct?

[MMArmour]

yes. you can.

[AaronK]

You are right that nolvadex and clomid are both SERMS. Both are more effective at different things, though nolvadex is by far more effective on a mg to mg basis when compared to clomid, it is absolutely standard that these two SERMS a run along side each other in PCT. The HCG is run to add a much need kick start to the boys below and works via a totally different mechanism than do SERMS. HCG by itself is NOT a pct. I do not recommend running both a SERM and AI DURING cycle (tho some people do). I said have arimidex (AI) on hand to run during cycle if you begin experiencing estrogen related sides.

Most people recommend a SERM and an AI as PCT. Your suggesting using 2 SERMS. Why would you not use an AI in your PCT? Im assuming using hcg then nolva/clomid will have the same end effect as using one AI and one SERM.

I guess ill just drop the nolva/clomid from week 13-15 in my first post and just use hcg at that time then use nolva/clomid as normal pct 21 days after last deca shot.

[MMArmour]

u can run AI in your PCT. I never said you couldnt

[AaronK]

u can run AI in your PCT. I never said you couldnt

Sorry mate i realise that. It was suggested elsewhere that you should use an AI and a SERM. If you use nolva/clomid, would you also use an AI also?

It was more curiosity why you suggest using two serms and no AI. Guess using the two SERMS or a SERM and AI are both good ways. Would you also use two SERMS and an AI?

[MMArmour]

We use these items to prevent estrogen until our body picks up on natty test output. Both are very effect at stopping estrogen, but both use two different mechanisms. the two serms will do just fine. Besides which, in personal research have found that serms and AI compete with each other lessen the effectiveness of both.

[AaronK]

thanx alot youve bee nvery helpful.

Think i have everything sorted now hopefully