Absolute Newbie asking the experienced

**stevedc** · 01-23-2009, 02:48 PM

Hi all,

I'm very new to this forum, but am very excited to learn from you guys / girls. I'll try and be as specific as possible with the post. I'm 6", 185lbs, have been lifting since I was 20 (on and off), but am finally getting serious. I'm serious about finally trying something real, but want to research as much as possible over the next 3-6 months before touching anything. The only thing I do at this point is maintain a good, healthy diet and drink 1-2 protein shakes a day. I like my size, but I'm simply slim. I was looking into Deca Durabolin along with testosterone after reading this. I've read almost all of the profiles from the this page over the past week, but something about the popularity and mildness of deca makes me believe this might be a good first start. Here are the few questions I have.

1) Is it possible to just take the testosterone without the actual roid to see if that will help my gains?
2) I've done my share of partying over the past 6 years and would rather not take a pill to pass through my liver. Does injection effect the liver at all?
3) I work out three times a week, 3 hours a day. (push, pull, legs - light cardio and abs all three days) Is that enough lifting to benefit from getting on something or should be remanage my workouts so I'm in the gym 5-6 days a week.

Again, I'm new to steroids and want to do this as safe as possible, so any info would help.

~ Regards
Steve

**jnewton86** · 01-23-2009, 02:52 PM

ill let the more experienced members answer your cycle questions, but as far as your diet and wkout regime go, i would say 3 hours in the gym is too much. i would stretch it out to 5-6 days a week, focusing on 1-2 muscle groups instead of multiple ones.

**MMArmour** · 01-23-2009, 03:18 PM

testosterone IS the "actual roid". By all means...it is THE roid. So no. Testosterone is an anabolic steroid . Period. It is also the steroid by which ALL other AAS are come by. Deca durabolin (and stacking of any kind) is not a safe way to begin this little venture of yours. While Deca may appear safe it belongs to a family of AAS known as 19nors and they can be tricky. A first cycle including ONLY testosterone enanthate (test e/enth/etcetc) is the way to begin. 3 hours in the gym is by far WAY TOO MUCH TIME to spend per session. Spread it out into 5-6 days sessions. Find a good workout split and stick to it. You dont run oral AAS for long periods of time so as to prevent liver damage. If you are concerned your liver maybe damaged there are various tests you can get from your local doctor to determine if this in fact true. No. (most) Injectable AAS do not affect your liver however all orals (with the exception of andriol ) are 17aa to survive first pass through the liver. Some oral steroids can be derived into an injectable (winstrol , methyltrienolone , etc) that is still 17aa (if youve read all the profiles...you know all this) and can be hepatoxic but for your purposes i would stay away from them until more experience and learning have taken place.

Have you researched PCT's?

How old are you?

You dont use steroids to GET serious. You should be serious before considering this next step after having maxed out your bodies natural potentials. Post your diet. Some guys here would love to see it im sure.

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-23-2009, 03:21 PM

1) Is it possible to just take the testosterone without the actual roid to see if that will help my gains?

What? Test is a steroid and it is the only steroid recommend for first time users. YOU CANNOT TAKE A DECA ONLY CYCLE.

This is what you should do for you first cycle:

Test-e or cyp 500mg/week (250mg every 3.5 days)

Have nolva on hand

PCT: (2 weeks after last injection)
Nolva 40/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/50

2) I've done my share of partying over the past 6 years and would rather not take a pill to pass through my liver. Does injection effect the liver at all?

Yes injection passes through the liver once, compared to orals that pass through twice. However, steroids are not really hard on the liver, but drinking on cycle is def. out of the question for multiple reasons

3) I work out three times a week, 3 hours a day. (push, pull, legs - light cardio and abs all three days) Is that enough lifting to benefit from getting on something or should be remanage my workouts so I'm in the gym 5-6 days a week.

3 hours is wayy to much, your body's natural hormonal levels start falling after 60 minutes in the gym and cortisol levels start rising. So more is not better keep your time in the gym between 45-80 minutes. That means you go hard with intensity and hit the muscle hard.

You will def. need to change your workout plan and be in the 4-6 days a week depending on your goals. And actually cut up your body into parts that you do per day.

Please post your diet as well so we can see what you need to improve on. Currently you are def. not ready for steroids because your workouts are not organized and efficent for ASS growth (the push pull cardio method is not conductive to growth since your body will get use to it after a while), you lack the proper education both of workouts in general and steroid use .

I do not recommend you starting a cycle till you have A) Fixed your diet because I have a feeling it is not as good as it can be B) Fix your workout routine C) Learn as much as you can about AAS because you still need to learn more

**markhyena** · 01-23-2009, 03:30 PM

"but drinking on cycle is def. out of the question for multiple reasons"

can you expand on this please.....

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-23-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by markhyena

"but drinking on cycle is def. out of the question for multiple reasons"

can you expand on this please.....

Alcohol does three important things to the body that concerns bodybuilders:

1) It slows down the rate of protein synthesis, while on steroids you increase that rate, taking alcohol slows down that rate (the extent can be debated but nonetheless it does)

2) It slows down the rate by which estrogen leaves the body. (I forget the exact science, but basically it prevents the liver from effectively removing excess estrogen), thus leading to a higher chance of estrogen related sides when your body is dealing with TONS of test and is trying to convert some of it to estrogen for homeostasis.

3) It dehydrates the muscles, anyone who drinks and wakes up the next day ultimately feels "smaller" because the alcohol dehydrates teh body and the body ends up taking water from the muscles. This further hinders AAS growth.

Now the degree to which these play out in the body will be debated.

IMO it won't kill you to have a couple beers a week while on AAS, but it is not recommended both for health reasons and also your paying this much money to make gains so why not sacrifice the booze for a couple months to get your moneys worth? Now are there people who take steroids and drink till they get smashed? OF COURSE! But there is a difference in what some people do and what you SHOULD do.

**stevedc** · 01-24-2009, 11:34 AM

#1 Diet.
With my workouts, I write down every lift, every day for anything that I do. However, with my diet, I find this to be a bit more complicated. I generally try to eat 5-6 meals a day (not very large of course). However, a typical day would include something like this:

1) protein shake in the morning with an apple or piece of fruit along with a multivitamin and flax oil pill.
2) several hours later I might have another piece of fruit, nuts, a V8 or some other light fruit or vegetable.
3) For lunch I almost always have beef or chicken. (i.e. grilled chicken breast chopped up in things such as salad, pasta salad, pasta red sauce, or anything low in saturated. fat but something that with help with energy on workout days.
4) Another snack like above.
5) dinner might include something like lunch above with lower carb intake if possible.
6) Another shake with fruit etc. as well as another flax oil pill before bed.

#2 Workout
I'll def take into consideration only working out 45-80min a session. My struggle is that I was always under the assumption that tearing a muscle after you've torn it, let it rest for a bit, is bad (again, I could be wrong). So, if I focus ONLY on chest one day, my triceps are sore the next day - I doubt I should work out the tricep the following day no? until it heals? This is why I work chest, tricep and shoulders in the same day - because doing a chest workout does not only workout my chest. Combine that with an abb workout keeps me there for a while. Any workout plans that you all might recommend that get me in the gym 5-6 days, can help me focus on one muscle group whilst not working a lot of others?

#3 I didn't realize that testosterone was a roid. Is it possible to just start with that without cycling with anything else or is that a bad idea?

Thanks again all for the educational and quick replies!!

~ Steve

**seriousmass** · 01-24-2009, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by stevedc

#1 Diet.
With my workouts, I write down every lift, every day for anything that I do. However, with my diet, I find this to be a bit more complicated. I generally try to eat 5-6 meals a day (not very large of course). However, a typical day would include something like this:

1) protein shake in the morning with an apple or piece of fruit along with a multivitamin and flax oil pill.
2) several hours later I might have another piece of fruit, nuts, a V8 or some other light fruit or vegetable.
3) For lunch I almost always have beef or chicken. (i.e. grilled chicken breast chopped up in things such as salad, pasta salad, pasta red sauce, or anything low in saturated. fat but something that with help with energy on workout days.
4) Another snack like above.
5) dinner might include something like lunch above with lower carb intake if possible.
6) Another shake with fruit etc. as well as another flax oil pill before bed.

#2 Workout
I'll def take into consideration only working out 45-80min a session. My struggle is that I was always under the assumption that tearing a muscle after you've torn it, let it rest for a bit, is bad (again, I could be wrong). So, if I focus ONLY on chest one day, my triceps are sore the next day - I doubt I should work out the tricep the following day no? until it heals? This is why I work chest, tricep and shoulders in the same day - because doing a chest workout does not only workout my chest. Combine that with an abb workout keeps me there for a while. Any workout plans that you all might recommend that get me in the gym 5-6 days, can help me focus on one muscle group whilst not working a lot of others?

#3 I didn't realize that testosterone was a roid. Is it possible to just start with that without cycling with anything else or is that a bad idea?

Thanks again all for the educational and quick replies!!

~ Steve

Diet:
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...
UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...
Appetite For Construction
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/calories/calories.html

Test Enth
Anabolic Review Steroid Profile: Testosterone Enanthate

Pheendo's PCT
Pheedno's PCT

All You Need To Know About Gyno
All you need to know about GYNO.

Listen to Immortal's advice. You aren't ready for AAS yet.

1.) Firstly, that diet needs A LOT of work. I'm not even going to get started on critiquing it. Read the threads and you will find the problems yourself.

2.) Secondly, you need to learn to work out effectively. You cannot just start working out in a split routine, ONCE YOU'RE ON AAS, that's how you hurt yourself. (So learn how to train properly first)

3.) Thirdly, get a basic understanding of what you're doing to your body. YES testostrone is a steroid . It's the BASE of all cycles. Research that thread on Test - Enan above. Remember: steroids can help you create great gains, but they're also a DRUG, and can leave you as a bald headed FREAK within a year if you do them incorrectly

good luck.

**outlawmuscle** · 01-24-2009, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by stevedc

1) is it possible to just take the testosterone without the actual roid to see if that will help my gains?

**seriousmass** · 01-24-2009, 12:06 PM

"Is it possible to just start with that without cycling with anything else or is that a bad idea?"

I'm just curious. What do you think steroids actually are?!

I.E. since you didn't know Testostrone was a steroid .. what did you think where?! & which compound were you thinking of running alongside your test originally?

**MMArmour** · 01-24-2009, 03:10 PM

i grin ear to ear eveytime i just see the word "roid" let alone hear it. I have a friend i lift with on occasion and he is always talking shit about AAS and how they "Shrink your weiner" and how its just "water weight" and "no added strength" etc etc etc. I laugh so hard when he points at some geared up fool in the gym and says "hes ****ing roidin out!". Ill spare him the truth. haha

**MMArmour** · 01-24-2009, 03:12 PM

And yes...you can cycle test by itself and that would be a good idea. Many do.

**Phate** · 01-24-2009, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by stevedc

#1 Diet.
With my workouts, I write down every lift, every day for anything that I do. However, with my diet, I find this to be a bit more complicated. I generally try to eat 5-6 meals a day (not very large of course). However, a typical day would include something like this:

1) protein shake in the morning with an apple or piece of fruit along with a multivitamin and flax oil pill.
2) several hours later I might have another piece of fruit, nuts, a V8 or some other light fruit or vegetable.
3) For lunch I almost always have beef or chicken. (i.e. grilled chicken breast chopped up in things such as salad, pasta salad, pasta red sauce, or anything low in saturated. fat but something that with help with energy on workout days.
4) Another snack like above.
5) dinner might include something like lunch above with lower carb intake if possible.
6) Another shake with fruit etc. as well as another flax oil pill before bed.

#2 Workout
I'll def take into consideration only working out 45-80min a session. My struggle is that I was always under the assumption that tearing a muscle after you've torn it, let it rest for a bit, is bad (again, I could be wrong). So, if I focus ONLY on chest one day, my triceps are sore the next day - I doubt I should work out the tricep the following day no? until it heals? This is why I work chest, tricep and shoulders in the same day - because doing a chest workout does not only workout my chest. Combine that with an abb workout keeps me there for a while. Any workout plans that you all might recommend that get me in the gym 5-6 days, can help me focus on one muscle group whilst not working a lot of others?

#3 I didn't realize that testosterone was a roid. Is it possible to just start with that without cycling with anything else or is that a bad idea?

Thanks again all for the educational and quick replies!!

~ Steve

your diet needs ALLLOTTT of work, write down everything you eat tomorrow and when you ate it then post in the diet thread and we'll help you get your diet on point

**jbm** · 01-24-2009, 07:56 PM

Nice post Immortal Soldier very educating!
Thanks!

**mhafez** · 01-25-2009, 01:19 PM

i'm a newbie too but i've done my H.W. and i think i now know just enough about dieting & steroids for my first cycle, next week i'll start test e only cycle 500 mg/week

but there's a question i dont seem to find an answer for at all

how often should i train every muscle when on steroids, once a week as i used to do or twice ??

**bifda** · 01-25-2009, 01:26 PM

you will repair quicker on the test, but it all depends on how you feel ,rest and diet.

**mhafez** · 01-26-2009, 04:35 AM

i feel that i can do every body part twice a week even without the test, but will that lead to over-training and thus less gains ?

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-26-2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by mhafez

i feel that i can do every body part twice a week even without the test, but will that lead to over-training and thus less gains ?

You can repair faster, thus hit the muscle more often. But with steroids , if you hit the body part hard one day per week then you will grow regardless.

It depends on preference and your goals.

It is very hard to overtrain while on steroids as long as you are getting in enough calories/protein because the body repairs itself so quickly.

However, after cycle it is VERY easy to over train your body because of the low hormonal levels you have to make sure you don't treat your body like you did while on cycle or else you will get tired and lethargic rather quickly and start missing gym days which will inhibit the process of keeping your post cycle gains.

**mhafez** · 01-26-2009, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

You can repair faster, thus hit the muscle more often. But with steroids , if you hit the body part hard one day per week then you will grow regardless.

It depends on preference and your goals.

It is very hard to overtrain while on steroids as long as you are getting in enough calories/protein because the body repairs itself so quickly.

However, after cycle it is VERY easy to over train your body because of the low hormonal levels you have to make sure you don't treat your body like you did while on cycle or else you will get tired and lethargic rather quickly and start missing gym days which will inhibit the process of keeping your post cycle gains.

Thank u soooo much that was very very helpful