PROS and CONS of running a lower test dose in the cycle?

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 07:27 PM

I have seen a few people on here talking about running lower doses of test in there cycles compared to the other compounds. To let the other compounds do most of the work and basically have test in there to just function properly.
So I was wondering what would to the advantages and disadvantages to this.
Obviously less sides.
Heres and example
test e 250mg per week
deca 600mg per week

**lord henry** · 01-29-2009, 07:33 PM

as deca shuts your natty test down hard its recomened that one replaces this with a hrt (i wouldent do it that way-i always run test higher than 19 nor) now gains will be great from the cycke above biut one may feel no sex drive,no motavation,tied,grumpy,ect ,you can beat test for makeing one feel great and like a man .

not sure if thats the answer your looking for but hope it helps.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 07:38 PM

I just wanna see what people have to say on it.
So for I see most saying you should run an equal amount of test to other compounds but anyone i asked that runs a lower dose said they didn't have a problem.

**lord henry** · 01-29-2009, 07:40 PM

the only way your going to find out is to try it,as you know everyone is different.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 07:42 PM

I know I just wanna see what I can dig up on it

**lord henry** · 01-29-2009, 07:43 PM

well what are you thinking about running bud?

**Big** · 01-29-2009, 07:46 PM

I've done test as low as 200mg/week with 600mg/week deca . I mainly did it because of all the posts I had seen telling peeps that we can't do that, and it just didn't add up to me. The average male produces the equivalent of approx 7mg/day of test, and the deca can not shut down the test you inject, so even at 200mg/week you're likely over your natural test level. My cycles ran fine, no ed, no low sex drive, good gains. less acne and oily skin when on lower test, and less estrogen related sides. gains were a bit lower than they would have been on the same cycle with more test, so it's not always the perfect combo, but it worked for me.

~edit~
My incorrect math was changed before Big Truck bitches any more. Please forgive me guys, I only hope no one was hurt my my neglegence, and somehow the community as a whole wasn't damaged beyone repair.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 07:56 PM

Thats what im looking to here.
Big your the one that got me thinking about this

**Dyke Jonze** · 01-29-2009, 07:57 PM

Glad to hear someone say that.

I personally run lower amounts of test because I'm diabetic and test greatly lowers my sensitivity to insulin .

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 07:59 PM

Would there be any compounds that would cause a problem with running a low test dose?

**Big** · 01-29-2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by johnnybigguns

Would there be any compounds that would cause a problem with running a low test dose?

too general of a question, I mean depending on dosages there are compounds that will cause problems regardless of test dose, it still has to be a sensibly planned cycle.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 08:06 PM

Just wondering if anything in general would stick out because of a low test dose. Other compounds in the 500-800mg per week range at most

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 08:13 PM

Big what do you think of this example cycle?

test e 250mg pw
tren e 350mg pw
deca 500mg pw

run it about 12 weeks maybe kickstart with some dbols

**BIG_TRUCK** · 01-29-2009, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Big

I've done test as low as 200mg/week with 600mg/week deca . I mainly did it because of all the posts I had seen telling peeps that we can't do that, and it just didn't add up to me. The average male produces the equivalent of approx 7mg/day of test, and the deca can not shut down the test you inject, so even at 200mg/week you're likely over your natural test level. My cycles ran fine, no ed, no low sex drive, good gains. less acne and oily skin when on lower test, and less estrogen related sides. gains were a bit lower than they would have been on the same cycle with more test, so it's not always the perfect combo, but it worked for me.

~edit~
My incorrect math was changed before Big Truck bitches any more. Please forgive me guys, I only hope no one was hurt my my neglegence, and somehow the community as a whole wasn't damaged.

If your body was producing 200mgs of pure un-estered testosterone with a fairly high amount of it being free (usable), then I could see it being 2+ that of a normal males production.

Injecting 200mgs of synthetic testosterone that is estered along with the fact that it is very dependent on whether how much your body actually absorbs, would put you barely above the high end of 'normal' testosterone levels . 200mgs puts many in perfect levels , so it depends. VERY far from being 4x a normal adult males readings..... 2x maybe, again depends on how YOU respond to it.

**Big** · 01-29-2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by BIG_TRUCK

If your body was producing 200mgs of pure un-estered testosterone with a fairly high amount of it being free (usable), then I could see it being 2+ that of a normal males production.

Injecting 200mgs of synthetic testosterone that is estered along with the fact that it is very dependent on whether how much your body actually absorbs, would put you barely above the high end of 'normal' testosterone levels. 200mgs puts many in perfect levels , so it depends. VERY far from being 4x a normal adult males readings..... 2x maybe, again depends on how YOU respond to it.

I'm pretty sure you completely missed my point, but I'm ok with that.

**Big** · 01-29-2009, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by johnnybigguns

Big what do you think of this example cycle?

test e 250mg pw
tren e 350mg pw
deca 500mg pw

run it about 12 weeks maybe kickstart with some dbols

I prefer tren to deca, if I were to include deca it would be at a lower dose for joint support only. But again, that's just me, what do I know lol.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 09:30 PM

LOL I definitely prefer deca for joint support and personally I think it should be a staple in every cycle. I was just thinking alittle higher then a joint support dose to help with muscle growth

**legobricks** · 01-29-2009, 10:16 PM

I would rely on the tren for muscle growth to be honest.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-29-2009, 10:18 PM

Well I was thinking both but with alittle more deca then more joint support to it can't be too bad

**BIG_TRUCK** · 01-29-2009, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Big

I'm pretty sure you completely missed my point, but I'm ok with that.

My point was very clear.

200mgs of test is far from being 2-4x your natural amount.

Unless your 8 yrs old , then it probably is.

**legobricks** · 01-29-2009, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by johnnybigguns

Well I was thinking both but with alittle more deca then more joint support to it can't be too bad

Not a bad idea. Plus i notice with AAS that hold a lot of water weight DEFINATELY help with lifting. Water weight IMO not only helps with joint support but also the weight lifted in the gym, the intensity (which can be a mental thing due to the "pump" caused and how much bigger you are) and your overall weight.

I say loose the water weight for after cycle and keep the intensity up and take advantage of it during cycle.

**Big** · 01-30-2009, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by BIG_TRUCK

My point was very clear.

200mgs of test is far from being 2-4x your natural amount.

Unless your 8 yrs old , then it probably is.

{sigh}
MY point, regardless of the math, was that your test levels should not be low enough to cause ed or the other issues the parrots say you will receive when running test lower than deca . Nothing in your statement invalidated my point, you did not show any evidence that I was wrong, you simply attempted to take issue with my math. I'm not an endo, I have run this cycle and stated my personal experience in an attempt to help others. Are you saying my point is incorrct, or are you just here to try to argue?
I checked your profile and didn't see any pics, so I'm not even sure if you are someone who should be advising here or just someone who spent a little too much time reading books. Please indulge me, are you disagreeing with the point I tried to make? Are you saying that people CAN'T run lower test than deca without issue???

**quarry206** · 01-30-2009, 06:41 AM

I thought males only produce 30-70mg a week of test.. so wouldn't 200-250mg's be a big improvement...

i don't know alot about roids, but my one friend always does 250mg/wk cycles of test C .. and he makes great gains and loves that range

**Big** · 01-30-2009, 07:38 AM

Many have made great gains off of dosages of 250/week and even much less. Although typical advice seems to be 500mg/week, I suspect in many cases the same gains could have initially been made with less.

**quarry206** · 01-30-2009, 08:21 AM

i'm asking this morning than stating this..

ones opinion on how much is enough is based on what they see as gains. and where there body is already.. ronnie coleman might think 500mg is crap, where as i, who has never might think 200mg is amazing.

is that a fair way to put it?

**chuckt12345** · 01-30-2009, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by BIG_TRUCK

My point was very clear.

200mgs of test is far from being 2-4x your natural amount.

Unless your 8 yrs old , then it probably is.

Dude totally disagree. Once the esters become stable 50mg synthetic test is way sufficent for normal levels.
I thnk you can run deca and take 5mg/ed androderm patches and still have healthy sex drive.

**BIG_TRUCK** · 01-30-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Big

{sigh}
MY point, regardless of the math, was that your test levels should not be low enough to cause ed or the other issues the parrots say you will receive when running test lower than deca . Nothing in your statement invalidated my point, you did not show any evidence that I was wrong, you simply attempted to take issue with my math. I'm not an endo, I have run this cycle and stated my personal experience in an attempt to help others. Are you saying my point is incorrct, or are you just here to try to argue?
I checked your profile and didn't see any pics, so I'm not even sure if you are someone who should be advising here or just someone who spent a little too much time reading books. Please indulge me, are you disagreeing with the point I tried to make? Are you saying that people CAN'T run lower test than deca without issue???

People can run deca alone if they want. Some will have libido problems, but they will not die. Yes I agree , a TRT dose of test will potentially solve this problem. Even though this is completely off task of what I was actually assessing....

I like how you get all bent out of shape over the fact your claim that 200mgs of synthetic testosterone will bring your test values that high. I was simply saying in the real world most find it does not. It's not healthy to be so emotional over that 'BIG' guy. SIGH

**BIG_TRUCK** · 01-30-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

Dude totally disagree. Once the esters become stable 50mg synthetic test is way sufficent for normal levels.
I thnk you can run deca and take 5mg/ed androderm patches and still have healthy sex drive.

Doctors start TRT patients out at 100mgs every week, or 200mgs every other week.
Some find the 100mgs/week to work fine while others need more to get them in normal ranges.

**johnnybigguns** · 01-30-2009, 02:12 PM

From what I have seen so far there is no such thing as normal ranges its all heresay just to sell you more meds. They talk about it on bigger,stronger ,faster

**BIG_TRUCK** · 01-30-2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by johnnybigguns

From what I have seen so far there is no such thing as normal ranges its all heresay just to sell you more meds. They talk about it on bigger,stronger ,faster

There just guide lines for what the average male produces through out his life.
Anything under the range ,or over the range is considered abnormal.

Just like a gauge for blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. There is a healthy 'ballpark' area.

**drive it!!** · 01-30-2009, 03:17 PM

not sure if this helps but to give you an idea i always ran my test higher than what i was running with it usually deca or tren enth. when i first started my trt tst my dr ordered me to start with 1 cc a wk thats 200mg pharmacy grade cyp. my levels were originally 247 normal being 270ish-850ish. after 1 month my levels climbed to 1252 that was only 2oomgs a wk. i get levels checked every 3 months and am now convinced it doesnt take as much test as i used to think. since lowering my test doses sides have lessened ,not gone, but little moretolerable (cant wait for this one to be over.) my gains are still continuing. my sex drive is out of control. hope this helps