Lube?

[KeyserSoze1]

Will Test E work as well as Deca (or even at all) for lubricating the joints? I have a bad shoulder and I am hoping so. If not, could I add a little of Deca to my Test E shots to do so?

Thanks all!

[Dinosaur]

deca is far better than test for the joints. although test is used like a father of all aas use.
if i were you i would wait little bit before doing any cycle until i make sure i know what iam doing. just a cheap opinion.

[legobricks]

The deca will not heal your shoulder. It may help with the pain but then you have to realize that you may damage it further due to the joint being "lubricated" from using the deca and your ability to push yourself harder (from the cycle). Be careful IMO.

[KeyserSoze1]

I am 36 and have had a bad shoulder for years. I have done physio, anti-inflam, etc etc. It is way beyond "wait little bit before doing any cycle until i make sure i know what iam doing" I am just looking for something to ease the pain a bit during my upcoming Test E. So, the Test E will not help then? I realize nothing will "cure" my shoulder. My question is how much will (if any) the test help lube. And.....can I add SOME DEca to my Test to lube the shoulder a bit

[chuckt12345]

i thnk test helps out a little,, when im on my whole body feels better,, joints and all. JMO though

[Mammon]

its decas action as a anti-inflammatory .. not because it "lubes the joints.. if that was the case anything that caused you to retain water would have the same effect.

[FLAMEHAIREDADONIS]

Do you have a diagnosis for shoulder probs? I only ask as it is common for bodybuilders to suffer from impingement due to rotator cuff weakness.

[johnnybigguns]

I had my tennis elbow acting up pretty good but when I got on deca it fixed it up no more pain. Personally I think deca should be a staple in every cycle just for its joint properties alone

[binder]

i would recommend fish oil, condroitin D, and glucosamine. those all work to reduce inflammation and lubricate the joints.

if you are going to cycle it would be best to use gear that causes water retention. that will somewhat help the joints. deca and anadrol work pretty good.

[Mammon]

reason why i believe deca works well for joints.. its nothing to do with the fact your retaining water.. this was a post by Nandi light years before ole Hooker stole the info and wrote his "ground breaking" article.. fukin wanker..

Androgens, Estrogens, and The Immune Response
I posted this reply recently on another board to the question "Do androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system"

It's really not quite correct to say androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system. It is a bit more complicated than that, not surprisingly.

Here is Immunology 101 in a nutshell. The immune system has two "arms of attack": the cell mediated arm and the humoral arm. The cell mediated arm, or cellular immunity, responds to general assaults on the body by sending out immune cells to do things like attack invading organisms, or degrade necrotic tissue, in a non specific manner. By non specific it is meant that the immune cells do not recognize the invader as a specific target with which they are familiar. Inflammation is an example of a cell mediated response. When you get a sliver or strain a muscle the body sends immune cells there to wall off the site, increase blood flow, remove damaged tissue, etc.

Humoral immunity involves B lymphocytes that secrete antibodies that bind to the target and allow immune cells to recognize the target immediately as an invader and launch an attack. When you are vaccinated for something, like smallpox, you are injected with a small inactive piece of the virus. This primes your body to make large numbers of B cell clones that, if ever challenged with smallpox for real, pump out antibodies that mark the virus for destruction by other cells. The big advantage of this system is that it is fast and efficient. The disadvantage is that it is very specific. The cellular response is not as efficient but it works against any invader, not just one for which there already exist primed clonal B cells.

There is an emerging model of how the sex steroids regulate the two arms of the immune system. It is thought that testosterone stimulates the humoral arm and suppresses the cellular arm. This paradigm arose from the study of autoimmune diseases which overwhelmingly plague women more than men. The majority of autoimmune diseases involve a cellular immune system gone wild. Since in men testosterone suppresses cellular immunity, men are much less likely to suffer from these diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis.

So when NFG123 mentioned that androgens are antiinflammatory, this is kind of what it means technically. Some steroids seem to have stronger effects than others. So when people say deca improves joints because it makes you hold water, that is nonsense. It is an antiinflmmatory because it suppresses cell mediated immunity, which controls inflammation. it has nothing to do with water.

Why is deca's reputation as an antiinflammatory better than testosterone's for example? My guess is the minimal aromatization and its progestogenic activity. If you link to the article below and open the graphic, you will see a couple of interesting things.

First, progesterone, like testosterone, stimulates humoral immunity (the TH2 mediated response in the graphic) and suppresses cellular immunity (TH1 response). So progesterone has antiinflammatory action.

Second, estrogen exerts a biphasic effect. At low doses it is proinflammatory, stimulating the TH1 arm of the immune system (cellular immunity) and inflammation.

Deca then works both as an androgen and a progestin to quell inflammation. Testosterone, by virtue of its aromatization to estrogen is an inferior antiinflammatory.

If you want to learn more about sex hormones and immunity, this is a good article to start with

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte...y=JsdA5F3s0DHFo

[BIG_TRUCK]

Testosterone is vital for normal joint function & repair.

Many studies that show this. Excess amounts, that's a different story.

I would say it is better to have more than not to much when it came to your soft tissue.

[jimmyinkedup]

reason why i believe deca works well for joints.. its nothing to do with the fact your retaining water.. this was a post by Nandi light years before ole Hooker stole the info and wrote his "ground breaking" article.. fukin wanker..

nice post - good read and info imo....