What's up with all these anti-estrogens?

[Ronnie Rowland]

I rarely find time to post in this section. I believe some great information is being handed out by some but I do not understand why everyone is jumping on the anti-estrogen banwagon?

Unless you are prone to gyno, preparing for a show or using very high dosages of aromatizing drugs -

1) why waste your money on anti-es?

2) why limit your gains with anti-es?

3) why kill your sex drive with anti-es?

4) why damage your joints with anti-es?

5) why kill your energy levels with anti-es

I do not understand? Will someone please explain!

[johnnybigguns]

Control acne and bloat?

[FireGuy]

There does seem to be some misunderstandings as the positive effects estrogen has. It seems a lot of guys like to have them on hand "just in case".

[johnnybigguns]

You definitely need the estrogen in there too

[Ronnie Rowland]

There does seem to be some misunderstandings as the positive effects estrogen has. It seems a lot of guys like to have them on hand "just in case".

FireGuy, I'm with you all the way about having them on hand in case they are needed. I spent some time over the weekend viewing multiple cycles being utilized by our board memembers and I was shocked to see that around 95% claimed to be running anti-es of various types regardless of the circumstances. They never mentioned anything about "having them on hand just in case." I think there's still some confusion regarding anti-estrogen use. Hopefully I got the wrong impression!

[Diamonds08]

Ronnie, are you talking during a cycle or for PCT?

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie, are you talking during a cycle or for PCT?

During a cycle!

[johnnybigguns]

when I don't take any my acne goes nuts.

[Diamonds08]

During a cycle!

Oh, OK. Yeah I'm not sure where that all started. Everyone is worried about getting gyno I guess? I have never taken anything during cycle as far as anti-e. Don't really understand the benefits. Even worse, AI's. I think too many people just believe what they read and don't bother researching what they read.

[FireGuy]

Personally (unless getting ready for a show) I would rather deal with some bloat than any of the aforementioned issues in the OP.

[Ernst]

I have always used anti-e's at some dose on cycle (no real choice for me, unfortunately). I have only experienced any of the aforementioned negative effects from higher doses/stronger anti-e's. I absolutely agree that some estrogen is a good thing. I think a little trial and error is involved for each individual.

[MuscleScience]

because gyno sucks ass.

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

I think sometimes it's easier for people to pop AI pills than to really assess their personal tolerance to gear...you know, more-is-better philosophy with gear... it's like a quick fix.. ya know, take 1g of test/wk, pop some adex and think no more of it when u could get better results with just 500mg and no AI

[cyclem]

nmnmnmnmnm

[drummerofgod87]

I think sometimes it's easier for people to pop AI pills than to really assess their personal tolerance to gear...you know, more-is-better philosophy with gear... it's like a quick fix.. ya know, take 1g of test/wk, pop some adex and think no more of it when u could get better results with just 500mg and no AI

1g of gear is not going to get outdone by 500mg of gear in any case. Estrogen will not make up for that 500mg deficit. Anyhow, OP, I completely agree with you. I never run an AI during cycles because I found I don't need them. Currently running 750mg Test EW, 600mg Tren E EW, 100mg Drol ED, and 50mg Dbol ED and I'm still having no issues with estrogen. Pretty sweet for me, I guess.

[user12345654321]

if i don't run an ai my acne gets out of control. but if i'm running say 500mg test a week(i like to change up my diet more so than running more gear) with .5mg adex eod (i also run finasteride @ 1.25mg ED) i only get 1-2 spots a week.

[vibnad1991]

does taking anti aromatases inhibt gains

[Narkissos]

I've never run a serm or AI on cycle.

I just utilize DHT-derivatives in just about all cycles.

non-issue for me.

[PT]

personally i just run a very low armidex dose with every cycle because it seems to keep the water to a min. i run around .25mgs and have never had any noticable sides from it. i have run high doses without an AI and have never got gyno so thats not a concern of mine but water retention is. as for people taking 20mgs of nolva along with 1mg of armidex ed on a cycle, thats just nuts to me unless there EXTREMLY gyno prone

[Lightsout2184]

i only keep them on hand. only had to use them once for about 5 to 7 days because of slight gyno but once it went away i went back to just having them on hand.

[Ronnie Rowland]

does taking anti aromatases inhibt gains

Oh yeah! How many anti-es do you think Arnold took in his bodybuilding career?

[Ronnie Rowland]

personally i just run a very low armidex dose with every cycle because it seems to keep the water to a min. i run around .25mgs and have never had any noticable sides from it. i have run high doses without an AI and have never got gyno so thats not a concern of mine but water retention is. as for people taking 20mgs of nolva along with 1mg of armidex ed on a cycle, thats just nuts to me unless there EXTREMLY gyno prone

Why not just run less aromatizing drugs and forget the anti-es seeing you do not get gyno? It would allow you more money to spend on gear! Anti-es are not cheap and they are not healthy to take long term IMO.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I've never run a serm or AI on cycle.

I just utilize DHT-derivatives in just about all cycles.

non-issue for me.

Makes sense!

[Ronnie Rowland]

if i don't run an ai my acne gets out of control. but if i'm running say 500mg test a week(i like to change up my diet more so than running more gear) with .5mg adex eod (i also run finasteride @ 1.25mg ED) i only get 1-2 spots a week.

Acne is a sign the testosterone is being accepted by your receptors. Could it be that the anti-es are buffering this effect?

[Ronnie Rowland]

1g of gear is not going to get outdone by 500mg of gear in any case. Estrogen will not make up for that 500mg deficit. Anyhow, OP, I completely agree with you. I never run an AI during cycles because I found I don't need them. Currently running 750mg Test EW, 600mg Tren E EW, 100mg Drol ED, and 50mg Dbol ED and I'm still having no issues with estrogen. Pretty sweet for me, I guess.

It can in regards to sex drive!

[Ronnie Rowland]

I think sometimes it's easier for people to pop AI pills than to really assess their personal tolerance to gear...you know, more-is-better philosophy with gear... it's like a quick fix.. ya know, take 1g of test/wk, pop some adex and think no more of it when u could get better results with just 500mg and no AI

I agree!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Oh, OK. Yeah I'm not sure where that all started. Everyone is worried about getting gyno I guess? I have never taken anything during cycle as far as anti-e. Don't really understand the benefits. Even worse, AI's. I think too many people just believe what they read and don't bother researching what they read.

This is true!

[Ronnie Rowland]

because gyno sucks ass.

Yes, but many never have issues with gyno so why take them?

[Ronnie Rowland]

Personally (unless getting ready for a show) I would rather deal with some bloat than any of the aforementioned issues in the OP.

I firmly believe the bloat can help spare the joints from heavy lifting. Never understood the need to try and rid the body of water when it destroys the very purpose of what you are trying to achieve.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I’m going for my second, gyno removal....I can’t take in anything without getting SEVER gyno!
I hate it!!! But it’s worth it!

Everyone’s diff!



ps; my sergeant says, it’s an absolute waist of cash to buy an anti estrogens... temporary bandage as he describes it!

Were you taking anti-es but developed gyno anyways?

[Ronnie Rowland]

i only keep them on hand. only had to use them once for about 5 to 7 days because of slight gyno but once it went away i went back to just having them on hand.

Smart move!

[Ronnie Rowland]

It seems female fatty deposits from so-called "estrogen conversion" actually has more to do with water retention and a poor diet!

[Adreja]

Have to admit that i'm a bit confused with the whole Anti-es thing as well. I'm currently on a cycle made up of Test E 750ml/w, Tren E 500ml/w and D'bol for the first 4 weeks at 50mg/d. I have ordered Arimidex and Nolvadex but am a bit unsure of how much Arimidex to take p/d and if i should take Nolvadex at all. Starting my second week tomorrow.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Have to admit that i'm a bit confused with the whole Anti-es thing as well. I'm currently on a cycle made up of Test E 750ml/w, Tren E 500ml/w and D'bol for the first 4 weeks at 50mg/d. I have ordered Arimidex and Nolvadex but am a bit unsure of how much Arimidex to take p/d and if i should take Nolvadex at all. Starting my second week tomorrow.

It's really simple-do not take anything unless you start developing signs of gyno.

[Mammon]

i run adex through all my cycles..

[jimmyinkedup]

ive always been cautious re: estrogen - never had any gyno symptoms - may not be prone at all....never felt it cost me much re gains either - then again im just going by good gains made with small amounts of ai use (eraly on its was low dose serm use) ...so i guess i dunno. Ronnie whats your opinion re cyles with tren and test cycles...i always felt it prudent to keep estrogen in check so as not to cause probs with elevated progesterone. The again i also have had great success and synergy with test/tren /winny - not ever knowing for sure but tending to believe based on results and synergy the winny helped re progesterone....

[Mammon]

Acne is a sign the testosterone is being accepted by your receptors.

could you elaborate..

[LATS60]

I rarely find time to post in this section. I believe some great information is being handed out by some but I do not understand why everyone is jumping on the anti-estrogen banwagon?

Unless you are prone to gyno, preparing for a show or using very high dosages of aromatizing drugs -

1) why waste your money on anti-es?

2) why limit your gains with anti-es?

3) why kill your sex drive with anti-es?

4) why damage your joints with anti-es?

5) why kill your energy levels with anti-es

I do not understand? Will someone please explain!

What are you talking, AI's or SERMS?

FireGuy, I'm with you all the way about having them on hand in case they are needed. I spent some time over the weekend viewing multiple cycles being utilized by our board memembers and I was shocked to see that around 95% claimed to be running anti-es of various types regardless of the circumstances. They never mentioned anything about "having them on hand just in case." I think there's still some confusion regarding anti-estrogen use. Hopefully I got the wrong impression!

Same here, AI or SERM? They do after all have totally different mechanisms of action.

Also would you not agree that prevention is better than cure/surgery? Don't forget that gyno can rear it's ugly head without the precursor of itchy/sore nips, tanner II gyno for instance will have no symptoms.
You don't have to get those problems you mentioned if you use the correct med at the correct dose for you.

Oh, what mammon said, elaborate please.

[HuntMan]

Its just a mental game for me. Run .25mgs A-dex Ed along cylce and not even have to check for gyno or other sides, can focus more on my diet and intense training. Everyone is different and if people want to spend the money on AI's its there money. I agree with Pt that runnin A-dex along with nolva on cylcle is a waste of money unless Extreme gyno and water retention problems.

[Narkissos]

Makes sense!

What makes more sense is including Calcium D-glucarate in one's supplement regime.

On the boards, the norm is to add more drugs to counter-act the side effects of an already overboard drug protocol.

This is quite backward IMO.

-CNS