First Cycle Questions

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 08:46 PM

Hey guys, I know you probably get a lot of these so I'll be as direct as I can. Firstly, my info before you read on-- I'm 21, 200-203 lbs, under 10% body fat. I have to do a lot of running for sports and I swim a lot. I'm presently lifting 4 times a week and eating around 5-7000 calories a day. I've been working out for about 3 years now and I noticed gains for about the first 2.5, but I've been stuck at the same weights for a while now. I'm looking to increase that.

After my research I found Sustanon 250 to be a pretty decent steroid from the descriptions, but I'll see what you guys recommend. I was thinking a cycle like this:

2.5 months of 250 mg sustanon injecting every 5 days (12 injections)

I'm looking into the HPTA effects as well as aromatization and losing gains. This is what I came up with for my PCT:

wait 1 week after last injection
Wk 2-3 hcg 2500iu every 5 days
Wk 3-6 Nolva 40mg every day
Wk 4-7 Clomid 75 mg every day

Hows the risk vs. reward on this?

***T-MOS*** · 02-10-2009, 08:49 PM

Welcome

how tall are you

sust isn't the best first choice, and it needs to be injected EOD not every 5 day

You are a bit young, but you would be better off with a single ester test like Test E or Test Cyp which needs shot every 3.5 days

PCT start timing depends on the compound you are using but 1 week after sust is incorrect. With sust, you start 18 days after last injection

With test E its 14 days after last injection

with test Cyp its 18 days after last injection

Your entire PCT needs a little work

also, please lay out your 5-7000 calories a day here so we can see what your diet looks like. If you can't gain on 7000 calories then something is really wrong

**Phate** · 02-10-2009, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kettle

Hey guys, I know you probably get a lot of these so I'll be as direct as I can. Firstly, my info before you read on-- I'm 21, 200-203 lbs, under 10% body fat. I have to do a lot of running for sports and I swim a lot. I'm presently lifting 4 times a week and eating around 5-7000 calories a day. I've been working out for about 3 years now and I noticed gains for about the first 2.5, but I've been stuck at the same weights for a while now. I'm looking to increase that.

After my research I found Sustanon 250 to be a pretty decent steroid from the descriptions, but I'll see what you guys recommend. I was thinking a cycle like this:

2.5 months of 250 mg sustanon injecting every 5 days (12 injections)

I'm looking into the HPTA effects as well as aromatization and losing gains. This is what I came up with for my PCT:

wait 1 week after last injection
Wk 2-3 hcg 2500iu every 5 days
Wk 3-6 Nolva 40mg every day
Wk 4-7 Clomid 75 mg every day

Hows the risk vs. reward on this?

how tall are you?

post your diet, i've got to see how you're eating 5-7000 calories a day and still under 10%

***T-MOS*** · 02-10-2009, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

how tall are you?

post your diet, i've got to see how you're eating 5-7000 calories a day and still under 10%

are you following me??.....lolol

**Phate** · 02-10-2009, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by T-MOS

are you following me??.....lolol

no..........i'm stalking you, lol

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 09:06 PM

Whoops sorry. I'm 6'5.

My diet goes as follows:

Breakfast 1/2 (eat one after waking up, wait 1.5-2 hours, eat again) [this is not all at once, it's split up into two meals, but I wrote htem together because I jump things around]
6 boiled eggs (just whites)
4 strips of thick ham
2-3 pieces of eggo
bowl of tater-tots (100-150g?)
bowl of oatmeal
some sort of muffin or something
orange juice
bowl of cereal (usually vector with added fibre)

snack:
almonds
banana
peanut butter

lunch: (this is really varied, I don't cook it so it depends on the day)
Usually some sort of white meat [turkey, chicken, etc..] (not sure how many grams but the size of two fists)
a cup or two of brown rice or a potato of equal size
bowl of cucumbers, lettuce and celery
corn or carrots

snack again

Isomass (900 calories)
https://www.svncanada.com/cart_produ...id=1280&type=1

Dinner:
a cup or two of brown rice or potato again
fish (size of two fists)
some sort of soup
bowl of greens again
pasta (if available)

Dinner 2:
baked fries/rice/potatoes
this is usually pork (again size of two fists)
lasagna/pasta
corn/beans

snack

isomass again

If I'm hungry at night I'll go for a subway foot long or something of the sort.

I have a REALLY fast metabolism (I have to go around twice a day) and I'm sure the running, swimming and lifting isn't making it slower.

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 09:09 PM

T-Mos, it has to be injected EOD? Even for a first cycle? From a few cycles I've seen online people were doing every 4 or so since it's oil based. I'll look into the single esters

**jbm** · 02-10-2009, 09:14 PM

Better Consider test e or test c. 500mg a week shot every 3.5 days 10 to 12 weeks...
But you're still young to cycle bro! IMO.
Eat more.

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 09:21 PM

ok I did some quick reading on them both. I don't see too much of a difference, which one is better test e or test c? And just to clear it up, any particular reason why I should start on either of those two instead of a blend? Is it because my receptors will react well either way? Or just amount of injections?

I'm going to have to spend the next few weeks reading on single tests now lol. Thanks for bearing with me guys.

**Phate** · 02-10-2009, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kettle

ok I did some quick reading on them both. I don't see too much of a difference, which one is better test e or test c? they are almost identical, the only difference is that test c has an extra carbon in the seventh position on it's ester
And just to clear it up, any particular reason why I should start on either of those two instead of a blend?you can get more stable blood levels on a single ester than on a blend as you can time injections for it, i'll explain more if you want Is it because my receptors will react well either way? Or just amount of injections?

bold

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

bold

thanks a lot

I'll extend that info by reading up.

***T-MOS*** · 02-10-2009, 09:35 PM

test is test. the only difference in any of them is the ester that holds the test in the suspension and times its release into your body

your injection times are dependent on the effective half life of the ester in order to keep your blood levels as stable as possible as the more unstable your blood levels are the more likely you are to get side effects, so your goal is stable blood levels

With multi esters, you have test releasing at several different times which makes it more difficult to keep blood levels stable and thus the need for more frequent injections

with single ester test you have only ONE ester to worry about and less injections unless you are shooting prop which should be shot ED or at least EOD

hope this helps

***T-MOS*** · 02-10-2009, 09:38 PM

also, at 6'5 and only 200 lbs, your definitely need to tweek the diet, but i will let someone else field that one for you as I am getting tired of reading......

and YES you are still a bit young and should try to reach your natural potential of about 240-250 before you need steroids

but i am guessing you won't wait, so be careful

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by T-MOS

test is test. the only difference in any of them is the ester that holds the test in the suspension and times its release into your body

your injection times are dependent on the effective half life of the ester in order to keep your blood levels as stable as possible as the more unstable your blood levels are the more likely you are to get side effects, so your goal is stable blood levels

With multi esters, you have test releasing at several different times which makes it more difficult to keep blood levels stable and thus the need for more frequent injections

with single ester test you have only ONE ester to worry about and less injections unless you are shooting prop which should be shot ED or at least EOD

hope this helps

Very much so, thanks

Originally Posted by T-MOS

also, at 6'5 and only 200 lbs, your definitely need to tweek the diet, but i will let someone else field that one for you as I am getting tired of reading......

and YES you are still a bit young and should try to reach your natural potential of about 240-250 before you need steroids

but i am guessing you won't wait, so be careful

What would you recommend? 240 at what bf%? Like I said, I'm not one of those people who are 15 and trying to get huge. I haven't been noticing any gains recently which is why I came here. I'm pretty sure my growth plates are fused, but I agree with you that I am not at the natural potential for my frame. If I can find a way to get bigger without spending money and having to risk steroids, I'll take that 100%. I'm not sure how much more I can eat without feeling sick all the time but if someone wants to help me by switching a few things around in my diet or suggesting a few things I'll gladly listen. I'm getting around 350-400 grams of protein daily. I did more when I was younger, but I ended up pissing it all out and it wasn't doing me any good. My urine tests have been fine recently so I think I'm taking the right amount of that. I'm really open to anything so long as I'm not killing myself here.

**jbm** · 02-10-2009, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kettle

What would you recommend? 240 at what bf%?

IMO! below 15% bf.

***T-MOS*** · 02-10-2009, 10:06 PM

check out the diet section of this forum, look under bulking diets

I am 5'11 and I went from about 220 to 260 when I was bulking and kept under 18% bodyfat

I ate whole meals every two hours, hated it, but it worked

now I am at a happy 230 which for 5'11" is a nice XL size....lol

**Kettle** · 02-10-2009, 10:08 PM

well I have to read up on single test ethers for the next few weeks anyways so I might as well try to fix up my diet during that time to see if it works. I guess I'll see you guys in 40 lbs. Thanks a lot

Btw T-MOS, how long did it take you to go from 220 to 260 on diet alone?