HELP NOOB has SERIOUS questions!!

**baskitcase** · 02-21-2009, 03:09 PM

So I have been lurking here for a couple of weeks and I singed up a couple of days ago. In that time I think I've read pretty much everything that is relevant to me. SO my hope is that I am not asking stupid questions and that I am giving you all the information you need to answer. So far I am very impressed with the knowledge and the people on this forum so I hope you can help me out.

ABOUT ME:
Age: 26
Weight: 185 lbs
Height: 5'11 ( 6' if my spine wasn't curvy)
BF%: I'd say about 13%

Experience: I've been lifting for about 6 years with varying degrees of seriousness. I am not an expert, but def not new to this.

Routine: Pretty light compared to other members. 4/week 2hrs. I do stomach and cardio on each of those days and alternate muscle groups. I go for lower weight higher rep exercises, but for some reason my body likes to put on bigger and less dense muscle than I would like.

WHAT I WANT OUT OF STEROIDS :

With my lifestyle/work schedule (i'm a young lawyer) I really can't afford to put too much more time into the gym. I would like for AAS to boost the effectiveness and results of my workouts so I can get to a look I am happy with and maintain.

I want three things. Cutt up, increase strength endurance, and a small amount of lean high quality muscle. I don't need/want to gain much more than 5 pounds. Modest efforts for modest results.

After doing my research I think I am settled on Either Turinabol or Anavar . Both are oral, with a good ratio of anabolic / androgenic effects. ( I have yet to find a good source). I also am not comfortable injecting anything.

Questions:

1. Which one is better for my needs tbol or anavar or stacking the 2? Which is better for increasing metabolism and burning up fat? and which one wlll be easiest to get my hands on?

2. Will either of these products have some of the added affects I hear about from steroids. Increased sharpness/ alternates mood ect? Because that would be an added benefit in my mind.

3. If Tbol is testosterone based how is it that it has such low androgenic effects?

4. I have heard the the aromatization and estrogenic effects of both these products is very low. Also that they do not effect androgen receptors is this true? AND if it is the case then doesn't that mean that neither of them will lower my natural test (no negative feedback) and if that is the case then do I really need PCT with these products.

5. This ay already be up on the forum somewhere. But how the hell does something like anavar have anabolic effects? If its not testosterone based then what exactly does it do, metabolize into a testosterone compound? Or is there another way. Nothing I have read has made this clear enough

Sorry for the length. But hey I am a lawyer, naturally long winded. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out. And if someone wants to PM me and help me out with the logistical problem I mentioned. Well, that would be flippin super

**hellapimpin** · 02-21-2009, 03:22 PM

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94756
for your anavar question

**stpete** · 02-21-2009, 03:40 PM

Welcome. In your research that you felt was relevant to you, did you run across anything mentioning that oral only isn't a godd idea? Or, if your not ready to inject, your not ready for aas? It seems ideal to just swallow or chew a pill and be done with it, but there's very good reasons not to. Do a little more research(and soul searching) to determine whether or not this is the road you want to travel. Good luck.

**Jfew44** · 02-21-2009, 04:02 PM

if ur wanting to cut up and not gain more than 5.lbs, the solution lies in your diet, not steroids bro. I know that's not what u want to hear but AAS are not magic. Post a sample diet and we'll critique it for ya.

**baskitcase** · 02-21-2009, 04:11 PM

Yes I understand that oral steroids can be damaging to my liver. However, I was under the impression that the two products I mentioned were pretty well tolerated by the liver. I got my information from the profiles thread on this forum.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199816

specifically " First of all, and this will come as no surprise to many people, Anavar is quite mild on your liver. It’s probably the most mild oral steroid available today. Dosages of up to 80mgs/day are easily tolerated by most men, and most side effects often found with other steroids are not common with ‘var"

I am only planning on taking 50mgs a day. I realize that oral AAS are looked down on here. I get it, its just that with my like/work situation it's too risky for injections. It's not that I am unsure, sometimes convenient is just convenient Plus I am not really coping out here, I WANT the milder results. Thanks for the concern anyhow, I appreciate the sentiment behind it.

**MMArmour** · 02-21-2009, 04:17 PM

Oral AAS are not looking down on. They are very useful in their purpose. However we dont typically recommend running them without a synthetic test along side it. even at a very low trt dose.

I would recommend tbol over var for your intentions tho.
50mg of var will leave you very disappointed in my opinion.

Even if you do not heed our warning of not using orals only you will still need a PCT for this.
What is your proposed PCT?

You also claim that with your job injections are too risky?
Oral AAS are every bit as illegal as injectables. There is no legal double standard here.

**baskitcase** · 02-21-2009, 04:34 PM

Thanks guys that was quick. It seems like you are saying AAS should not be used to cutt up, I thought that is what products like anavar was good for though?

I have tried to get where I want in the usual ways, and you are right I might get there if I pushed it even harder. But at this stage in life/work I think I have pretty much maxed out the time and effort I have for fitness. Is it so bad to want a little extra help? Or do you guys think that AAS are pretty much only for hardcore weight lifters who have pushed their genetics to the limits.

I don't mean to sounds ungrateful, but I am just really confused about the attitude towards AAS on the forum. Maybe it's because I am new.
THanks again

**MMArmour** · 02-21-2009, 04:47 PM

Okay...heres how i consider all of this.

As for using steroids to cut up. I have excellent results leaning out on injectable compounds (being as the only orals ive used are for bulking and accompany water retention). This is because they bind to androgen receptors not just in muscle tissue but in fat. When these receptors are activated in muscle, its will send a signal for growth. In fat, it achieves the opposite. But nothing on earth will make you more lean than cardio and diet. Period. Some AAS such a winstrol will promote a very hard and dry physique but this is provided that other parameters are in a range that the compound is effective. You need to start at an already low bodyfay for drugs like var and winstrol.

No. I do not believe that AAS are only for hardcore dudes looking to get incredibly massive. I have no ambition right now of ever being over 235lbs at 6'0.

Ultimately what im saying is this:

If youre training and diet are not enough for your body to initiate changes such as fat loss and muscle growth naturally, then steroids will likely not be the edge that takes you to the next level unless you are already pushing hard naturally. I would put money on you spending the money on var and your pct and coming out sorely disappointed with the results. In a person working there asses off correctly AAS can work wonders. 25+ lbs gains etc. Or...to a person with mediocre effort will recieve only 5lbs. All of which they will lose post cycle.

You cannot workout half ass, or diet half ass, and expect AAS to suddenly raise the bar of your ineffective workouts to suddenly more effective ones. Or a shitty diet suddenly more efficient. You have to impliment these manually to reap the benefit.

**honda450** · 02-21-2009, 05:20 PM

^^^ What he said.

Steroids aren't magic. If you don't inject anything your results won't really give you what you want.

It's going to come down to proper fitness and diet.

**hellapimpin** · 02-21-2009, 05:31 PM

tbol/anavar cycles...together is actually a decent oral cycle IF you were going to do one..but still no recommended.. Diet, cardio, and maybe some Clen

..will get you to where you want to be. by the sounds of your stats..your not in bad shape.. are you Currently working out?

**baskitcase** · 02-21-2009, 07:55 PM

Thanks for the responses, and sorry I was out for last couple of hours. I forgot I had dinner plans and had to rush out.

Anyway.. so yeah. My research (for whatever thats worth) seems to point to the fact that the tbol/anavar cycle is a pretty good cycle, pretty much what Hellap is saying here's a sampling of what I have found and I'd like to hear what you guys think especially if you or someone you know has done an oral only cycle.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ghlight=anavar

Thats a thread from this forum. Look down to where BiG, who seems to be a pretty senior member here, says an var tbol oral cycle should be just fine.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=***733

Here's a guy on another forum who took anavar only to cut up for wrestling and keep his weight the same. Seemed to get pretty decent results

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=959577

Here's another thread where there are all sorts of mixed opinions. Some who have said a a tbol only cycle is great, and some who have said it was shit.

So who is right? I wanted to take these two orals without test because I really wouldn't mind 0 weight gain. I am only looking for leaner more vascular looking muscle. I'm not sure if the injection only warnings have merit or if you guys are only looking at it from your perspective, which is to put on and retain mass.

**baskitcase** · 02-21-2009, 07:56 PM

llll

**Phate** · 02-21-2009, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by baskitcase

Thanks for the responses, and sorry I was out for last couple of hours. I forgot I had dinner plans and had to rush out.

Anyway.. so yeah. My research (for whatever thats worth) seems to point to the fact that the tbol/anavar cycle is a pretty good cycle, pretty much what Hellap is saying here's a sampling of what I have found and I'd like to hear what you guys think especially if you or someone you know has done an oral only cycle.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ghlight=anavar

Thats a thread from this forum. Look down to where BiG, who seems to be a pretty senior member here, says an var tbol oral cycle should be just fine.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=***733

Here's a guy on another forum who took anavar only to cut up for wrestling and keep his weight the same. Seemed to get pretty decent results

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=959577

Here's another thread where there are all sorts of mixed opinions. Some who have said a a tbol only cycle is great, and some who have said it was shit.

So who is right? I wanted to take these two orals without test because I really wouldn't mind 0 weight gain. I am only looking for leaner more vascular looking muscle. I'm not sure if the injection only warnings have merit or if you guys are only looking at it from your perspective, which is to put on and retain mass.

first off you can't link to other forums

but aside from that, i would bet that the difference in two people that use the same cycle and get different results has more to do with diet then the steroids themselves

**baskitcase** · 02-21-2009, 09:14 PM

MM,

Thanks for your reply. As far as PCT goes I was originally thinking of 20mg of nolv starting the day after (since both products wear of in a day) for three weeks.

However, after reading Hellps post on anavar . I think I should be able to do 2 weeks of just clomi (the post said as low as 50mgs) would be good. I might get the nolv to keep on hand if the clomi doesn't work or even becasue it has better cholesterol lowering and LH boosting properties (I heard the orals can do a number on cholesterol)

I am in pretty good shape and not half assing my workouts. I gain muscle very easily, the problem is the type of muscle I gain, large bloated and it doesn't suit my frame. When I attempt to I want leaner muscle.

About the rest of your post. I hear what you are saying. WHich is basically that AAS should be used for the extra push when you are already going as hard as you possibly can naturally. That seems like a very reasonable approach to take and I think it certainly is the majority opinion around here. I agree for the most part.