Moderate dosage, long cycle

[Vires]

Although this is my 1st official post I've been snooping around here reading for the last 6 months. Thank you for everyone's great input.

My question is in regards to the cycle I am planning.

My background:
30 years old
7 years lifting, former college cross country runner prior to that
205 lbs., about 13-15% BF, 6 feet tall
3rd cycle - First 2 I was admittedly uneducated and probably did not keep many of my strength/size gains.

I'm happy to post my diet or macros if necessary.

Wondering about a longer cycle with moderate weekly dosages.
I am considering either a 4 OR 5 month cycle of 250mg Test 250 AND 250mg Deca 250 each week.
Week 1 - 20
Deca250 - 250mg
Test250 - 250mg

PCT I was planning on about 3 weeks after last dosage taking 200mg Clomid followed by 50mg daily for next 20 days.
Week 23 - 25
Day 1 - 200mg Clomid
Day 2 - 21 - 50mg Clomid Everyday

All input, constructive criticism is appreciated.

[DS21]

Even though your dosing is low, your still shut down for awhile, so I would definetely run a better pct. I would run the following:

wk 22-27 20mg nolva
wk 22-27 25mg aromisan

Everything else looks okay. Any reason for such a long cycle?

[DS21]

Those are ED dose.

[honda450]

If you wanna run that long maybe some HCG will do your balls and recovery well.

I would run the Test no lower than 300 . 400 would be a good dose.

[Vires]

Even though your dosing is low, your still shut down for awhile, so I would definetely run a better pct. I would run the following:

wk 22-27 20mg nolva
wk 22-27 25mg aromisan

Everything else looks okay. Any reason for such a long cycle?

Understood. I need to do more perusing and reading on PCT.

Reason for long and light as opposed to short and heavy goes back to sides. Maybe that is a noob thought though.

You think a simple Test/Deca cycle is alright?

[Vires]

If you wanna run that long maybe some HCG will do your balls and recovery well.

I would run the Test no lower than 300 . 400 would be a good dose.

Thanks. Increasing to 400mg over 5 months, really?

[bmit]

I get really good results from test at around 320 wk and deca at around 200 mg week. I would bump up test to 375 and roll with it. Good low dose long cycle with probably very good results likely if you train and eat right. Definitely HCG it bro

[DS21]

Understood. I need to do more perusing and reading on PCT.

Reason for long and light as opposed to short and heavy goes back to sides. Maybe that is a noob thought though.

You think a simple Test/Deca cycle is alright?

A Test and Deca cycle is perfect for your 3 cycle. I would run it something along the lines of this:

Wk 1-12 Test E or C 400-500mg/wk
Wk 1-11 Deca 350-500mg/wk

[HuntMan]

That looks good^ but i would stop the deca two weeks before i stop the test.
Week 1-12 Test E or C 400-500mh/wk
Week 1-10 Deca 350-500mg/wk

[Vires]

I'm going to bump this for more input...

Have my gear and starting June 1. About to order PCT and wanted to be sure my resaerch is straight as I've never done this long of cycle (3rd cycle, stats above).

Questions:
1) Should I shorten up weeks (15 weeks?) and increase dosages (300mg+?)?
2) Reading a lot about HCG. Some say no...some say yes...some say only to kick start HPTA and PCT during cycle. Someone with experience guide me here?
3) With toremifene am I okay starting at week 22 stopping deca week 18 or should I move PCT up to week 21?

Week 1-18 - Deca250 @ 250mg/week, Test250 @ 250mg/week
Week 19-20 - Test250 @ 250mg/week


PCT
Week 22 - Toremifene @ 120mg/ed
Week 23 - Toremifene @ 90mg/ed
Week 24-25 - Toremifene @ 60mg/ed

[chuckt12345]

i wouldnt ever run deca for 20 wks but let someoen else chime in.
nothin wrong with running test at 250mg/wk, let the deca do the work.
this being yoru 3rd cycle why you wanna run it so long? Just do like a 14 wk

[Vires]

i wouldnt ever run deca for 20 wks but let someoen else chime in.
nothin wrong with running test at 250mg/wk, let the deca do the work.
this being yoru 3rd cycle why you wanna run it so long? Just do like a 14 wk

Starting to second guess the 20 weeks myself...that's why I'm asking. Thinking receptors will start diminishing returns. Originally wanted longer low dosages to avoid potential sides.

[chuckt12345]

longer you run them the longer its gonna take to get back to normal

[WARMachine]

i'm going to bump this for more input...

Have my gear and starting june 1. About to order pct and wanted to be sure my resaerch is straight as i've never done this long of cycle (3rd cycle, stats above).

Questions:
1) should i shorten up weeks (15 weeks?) and increase dosages (300mg+?)?
2) reading a lot about hcg. Some say no...some say yes...some say only to kick start hpta and pct during cycle. Someone with experience guide me here?
3) with toremifene am i okay starting at week 22 stopping deca week 18 or should i move pct up to week 21?

week 1-18 - deca250 @ 250mg/week, test250 @ 250mg/week
week 19-20 - test250 @ 250mg/week


pct
week 22 - toremifene @ 120mg/ed
week 23 - toremifene @ 90mg/ed
week 24-25 - toremifene @ 60mg/ed

thats too much toremifene bro. And you need another serm. Either tamox or clomid.

If you wanna run nolva with it, then drop the dose to about 60mgs. And if you wanna run clomid, you can keep it at about 90mgs.

bolds

[WARMachine]

longer you run them the longer its gonna take to get back to normal

And the less likely.

[Vires]

thats too much toremifene bro. And you need another serm. Either tamox or clomid.

If you wanna run nolva with it, then drop the dose to about 60mgs. And if you wanna run clomid, you can keep it at about 90mgs.

Nolva it is then. Torem to 60mg AND taper off or no????

HCG???? At end of cycle or during PCT or at all????

Start torem in week 3 or 4 following deca?

Thanks

[Knockout_Power]

You know, if you tried a solid 12 week Test cycle @ 500/wk you would probably see great gains and then a simple PCT will help you keep it. Forget about playing around with duration, it only causes longer recovery

[Knockout_Power]

PS- I know its your 3rd cycle, but doing it once properly will give you a great base to build on next time. And besides, with the amount of time you are talking about doing this cycle, you could do a proper PCT recovery and almost ready to start another good cycles and then throw in Deca.

JMO

[Vires]

week 1-12 - deca250 @ 400mg/week, test250 @ 350mg/week
week 13-14 - test250 @ 350mg/week


pct
week 15-16 - toremifene @ 60mg/ed, nolva @ 40mg/ed
week 17-18 - toremifene @ 60mg/ed, nolva @ 20mg/ed

Call me a pvssy but I am not wanting to get into anything over 500mg/wk. Thoughts on by changes????

Really appreciate you guys double checking my research/plan.

edit: Knockout...looks like you recommend dropping deca totally? Test only

[WARMachine]

If you wanna use hCG, use it during the cycle. Not during PCT.

And PCT looks good bud.

[Knockout_Power]

edit: Knockout...looks like you recommend dropping deca totally? Test only

Personally I would just so you can get a good baseline of what a test only cycle done properly can do for you. Even @ 400/wk you should see nice results.

My next cycle will incorporate Deca, but Ive done 2 test only cycles before. 1 was less than impressive since my PCT was admittedly poor so I kept maybe 40%. This was @ 400/wk and saw great gains. The 2nd was @ 500/wk and kept almost all with a good PCT.

Im seeing a lot of guys at the gym throw in a mild deca dose (250/wk) just for the joint relief from heavier lifting and they claim a little bit more gain than just the test alone. Its all personal body response.

Im far from an expert on this matter, but I too prefer to use as little as I can to get the job done. (costs less too, but my new source is working good prices with great product so that helps)

Do whatever you like, you seem to be willing to learn and at least you didnt come on here asking the best way to run a 10 week, 50mg/day dbol cycle

[The Deuce]

I dont see anything wrong with long duration cycles... nothing at all...

Yes it does mean it COULD POSSIBLY take your body longer to recover... not necessarily but thats the growing consensus...

If I were you... run it

1-20 Test 375mgs EW
1-18 Deca 250mgs EW

That's a pretty moderate cycle... and I believe you will gain the full length... as far as a PCT


go with a 6 weeker

1-4 Nolva/Clomid/Aromasin 40/100/25mgs ED
5-6 Nolva Clomid 20/50mgs ED

That should be enough to compliment the duration of that cycle. Remember if you have GYNO issues during the cycle... DO NOT USE NOLVA !!

Get some Caber...

This is my Opinion and should be regarded as such...

[WARMachine]

I dont see anything wrong with long duration cycles... nothing at all...

Yes it does mean it COULD POSSIBLY take your body longer to recover... not necessarily but thats the growing consensus...

No actually thats the opposite of the census. Most people agree that longer cycles rather than higher doses of cycles will cause it more difficult to recover. (for lack of a better word.) Ive seen many supporting studies personally.

If I were you... run it

1-20 Test 375mgs EW
1-18 Deca 250mgs EW

That's a pretty moderate cycle... and I believe you will gain the full length... as far as a PCT


go with a 6 weeker

1-4 Nolva/Clomid/Aromasin 40/100/25mgs ED
5-6 Nolva Clomid 20/50mgs ED

That should be enough to compliment the duration of that cycle. Remember if you have GYNO issues during the cycle... DO NOT USE NOLVA !!


Dont agree. He can use it. But Caber should be used along side. Caber wont do a thing for gyno.

Once gyno has began to develop, Nolvadex is the only thing that will help. It will block the receptors, and prevent gyno from worsening. Nothing else will do this.

Which is exactly why if he is ERSE prone, he should run an AI throughout the cycle to prevent any issues throughout the cycle.

Get some Caber...

This is my Opinion and should be regarded as such...

BOLDS

Might wanna take a look at my sticky.

"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

[Vires]

Thanks War...good stuff.

[The Deuce]

BOLDS

Might wanna take a look at my sticky.

"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid*****/showthread.php?t=379916

Oh my bad War... apparently I was fed bad information that I have been living on and relying on.. In fact.. when I was taught what i thought was the right thing it was from a well regarded person here that said "NEVER USE NOLVA ON CYCLE WITH A 19-NOR" "Use Caber only when sides of Progestrone appear (leaky nips, ED)"

And if there are studies backing up all of that ... like I said my Bad for not knowing the proper info... now that I know.. I guess I feel more like a fvcking DUMBASS for feeding the dude misinformation but even more so that I have been living with what I thought was correct knowledge when in all actuality IT WAS FALSE.


Now WAR..

Just so I get this right...


1)It's OK to use Nolva when using a 19-nor during cycle if experiencing Gyno.. not just CABER??

2)Longer moderate cycles are harder to recover from then High dose short cycles??

3) You don't think he should be running the cycle that I laid out?? Because... it's inappropriate?? Un-ethical?? Or just plain not good at all??


I am just trying to fill my head with the CORRECT information... not Bullsh1t.. ya know?? That's why I belong to this forum.. the most knowledgeable people reside here...

[audis4]

weird, my 20 yr old room mate is bigger than you and has never cycled.....

[The Deuce]

Bigger than who?

[Vires]

weird, my 20 yr old room mate is bigger than you and has never cycled.....

hijack...now move along.

I'm interested to hear WAR's thoughts to Deuce's questions. Trying to get me learn on...

[therecanonlybe1]

Even though your dosing is low, your still shut down for awhile, so I would definetely run a better pct. I would run the following:

wk 22-27 20mg nolva
wk 22-27 25mg aromisan

Everything else looks okay. Any reason for such a long cycle?

please educate me on this "shut down".
thanx