Deca, tren or Winn?

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 08:25 AM

Just researching for my 2nd cycle which i might do. Im 20 and currently running epidrol with mik thistle and ive got pct (nolva) and all sorted for it. Im not interesting in injecting not atm anyway and want minimal water retention. Ive been put off d'bol becasue its tends to promote water rentention but i know theres stuff to handle that, so if its the best out of the above i would consider dbol .

Goals may change by the time i wanna do a 2nd cycle, - Gain lean muscle, strength gains, maintain/lose bf%.

So just a few questions:

Which aas has the lowest sides and is least toxic to the liver, if any?
Whats best for strength or mass or both?
Do they all kick in quick, if not by what week usually?
Im looking to run a short cycle (6 weeks) is this possible with good gains with any of these aas's?

**10nispro** · 03-16-2009, 08:29 AM

First, you are to young to even think of doing a cycle. And If you aren't going to inject you don't need to do a real cycle. Injects, imo, give the best results for the money and time.

I am not saying that oral cycles are bad, just prefer injections over them. With that said, you need to research more.

Also, what are the rest of your stats?

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 10:27 AM

I thought i would get this 'im too young response', just knows its my decision and the consequences lay with me, ive made my decision and like i said im currently already on cycle. I know theres a right adn wrong way to inject but if done worng it can kill you so il stick to orals.

Been training a few years.
Stats - 186lbs
BF - 15%

Any advice on my first post appreciated thanks.

**Dukkit** · 03-16-2009, 10:46 AM

20 is too young to cycle yet. so much you can do with proper diet and training right now. research those 2 things instead of steroids .

you say your looking for 2nd cycle?

what was your first?

and also... at 15% body fat, id cut down a bit before i ran a cycle.

work on your diet and training. at 15% BF, something isnt right if youve "been training a few years"

a 6 week cycle can be done with short esters but your not experienced enough yet to do everyday injections

P.S. how tall are you?? your weight and body fat are cool but if your 6'5 they arent. height is importanrt

**hankdiesel** · 03-16-2009, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

I thought i would get this 'im too young response', just knows its my decision and the consequences lay with me, ive made my decision and like i said im currently already on cycle. I know theres a right adn wrong way to inject but if done worng it can kill you so il stick to orals.

Been training a few years.
Stats - 186lbs
BF - 15%

Any advice on my first post appreciated thanks.

You are going to destroy your liver with this "oral only" attitude. We can not feed you all the answers when it comes to steroids . It seems that you haven't even read the profiles. Take your time and do some research.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 01:17 PM

dukkitdalaw - im currently on my 3rd week of epidrol at 30mg, and i am researching on my 2nd cycle providing everything goes well with epidrol which it is so far.

Im 5 foot 11, 42 inches chest realxed, 15 1/2 inch arms, 34 waist. Yeah i plan to lower my bf before my next cycle.

I dont wanna do injectables. Just oral.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 01:19 PM

hankdiesel - Im going to destroy my liver why are you overexaggerating for, i only plan on running one oral at a time. Yes i have researched and didnt find the answers to my questions hence why i asked bro.

**Mammon** · 03-16-2009, 01:29 PM

tbol maybe.. but i wouldnt recommend an oral cycle

**Big** · 03-16-2009, 01:45 PM

Just the fact that you want to do an oral only cycle and asked about the compounds you mentioned in the thread title makes it obvious you need more research. Read the steroid profiles, put together a solid cycle for critique, and we can go from there.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 03:34 PM

Well if i got my questioned answered i could put a cycle together.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 03:38 PM

So can anyone answer my questions?

**Mammon** · 03-16-2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mammon

tbol maybe.. but i wouldnt recommend an oral cycle

///.....

**CHUCKYthentic** · 03-16-2009, 03:39 PM

its not a good idea to run either 3 of those compounds alone without testosterone
REAL deca and tren do not come in oral form, and you stated you only want to run orals

i too wouldnt recommend oral only cycle.

by chance you didnt happen to see these compounds in the banner at the top of steroid .com did you?

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 05:12 PM

Yeah i actually did chucky :S

Im actually stunned at that most of you are soo against orals, so this is becasue you feel its too harsh on the liver and that injectables are a safer alternative?

Well ive been told on DS such as epi that liver problems are overexaggerated not sure about aas, apart from what you guys are saying.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 05:14 PM

Thanks mammon.

**Mammon** · 03-16-2009, 05:15 PM

that stuff in the banner.. just supplements. not the real thing.. made to look like it tho to bait in guys who dont know any better. better off with a multi-vitamin

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 05:20 PM

What all the oral types of aas - just winny and dbol then?

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 05:21 PM

Alright them bast####! Thanks bro.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 05:40 PM

Tbh i think you's are blowing 'oral bad is really really for liver' out of proportion.

**Big** · 03-16-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

I know theres a right adn wrong way to inject but if done worng it can kill you so il stick to orals.

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

Tbh i think you's are blowing 'oral bad is really really for liver' out of proportion.

We're blowing things out of proportion? Could you post some links to some of the wrong injection methods that kill steroid users? I'd be interested to read the studies and articles. I've been around this lifestyle longer than you have been alive, and I've never heard of a single fatal injection mishap.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 05:49 PM

Well if you dont do injectables right and jag them in the wrong place they will kill you yeah, ive heard that.

**Big** · 03-16-2009, 05:53 PM

I still recommend doing some research, you will one day be glad you did. If you're sold on not waiting, and on oral only, look into tbol or anavar .

**Gears** · 03-16-2009, 05:55 PM

You could die of air embolism, but you would have to both inject in a vein and have a huge air bubble that im not even sure is possible with a small syringe. Either way, it's incredibly unlikely and I don't see anyone in their right mind both skipping aspiration and having a huge bubble in their syringe.

**Gears** · 03-16-2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

Well if you dont do injectables right and jag them in the wrong place they will kill you yeah, ive heard that.

You're not talking like poking an eye out are you?

**Big** · 03-16-2009, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

Well if you dont do injectables right and jag them in the wrong place they will kill you yeah, ive heard that.

just for your own info, you should question the credibility of whoever told you this.
by the way, here is a good read on air embolisms, simply won't happen with the size syringes and injections we use, not even close.

How Much Air is Needed (to cause death)

**Icemansoldier** · 03-16-2009, 06:04 PM

^LOL no mate

Thanks for the replies and help.

**MODESEVEN** · 03-16-2009, 08:08 PM

Looks to me like no matter what we say your still going to do the oral cycle.In that case i would think about running the winny and or get some good anavar .I ran some winny tabs along with some test boosters when i was your age with "o.k." results.Research the winny and anavar.I 'am sure you will come up with something that might influence you to run some test along with it.

Are you afraid of the injections?

**tripmachine** · 03-17-2009, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Big

We're blowing things out of proportion? Could you post some links to some of the wrong injection methods that kill steroid users? I'd be interested to read the studies and articles. I've been around this lifestyle longer than you have been alive, and I've never heard of a single fatal injection mishap.

lol I was going to say I'd like to hear about someone that has died by a 'fatal injection' too...... Please advise!! I may just stop my cycle if that's true! Please reply with that info ASAP!!!

**tripmachine** · 03-17-2009, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gears

You're not talking like poking an eye out are you?

hahahahahaha I almost did that!!! I ran out of injection sites so i was going for my cheek muscle.... I was really shaky and.... yeah

**lovbyts** · 03-17-2009, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

Well if you dont do injectables right and jag them in the wrong place they will kill you yeah, ive heard that.

He's right, If you stick a 2 in needle in your eye you may kill yourself.

Yeah I'm sure you could purposely inject straight into a vein and cause yourself some harm.

You have 10x more chance of doing harm if you do oral only and without proper supplements and PCT.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-17-2009, 06:13 AM

Im not scared of injections, no. Popping pills is so much easier and i cant say i get turned on by the fact ill need to inject myself every few days. Atm a long cycle is out of the questions.

I think i read somewhere if you hit a nerve you could die.

Ill look more into winny and dbol . But then again i may run SD,PP or epi. Defo no injectables yet anyway maybe in the future.

**Mammon** · 03-17-2009, 06:17 AM

nah you hit a nerve you will know it.. now if you hit the siatic nerve it will drop ya..lol
but it aint going to kill ya.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-17-2009, 06:18 AM

What im primarily looking for is strength tbh, and just a few lbs of muscle.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-17-2009, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mammon

nah you hit a nerve you will know it.. now if you hit the siatic nerve it will drop ya..lol
but it aint going to kill ya.

Yeah alot of websites hype the injectables up and say steriods are bad people die and all, but its only from misuse. Most poeple who i know that dont train have a bad perception of steriods, but i explain to them its not bad abit but i dont wanna say too much in case they suspect im using them which i am atm.

**Mammon** · 03-17-2009, 06:23 AM

thats all just media hype. anyone educated on the topic knows better.
if your looking for strength, without the water retention im telling you, you should look into tbol if your going to go oral only. screw the dbol and winny.
if not tbol then var, but much more expensive

**Icemansoldier** · 03-17-2009, 10:05 AM

Yeah var too expensive, so why do you recommend me tbol is it alot less stressful on the liver or what could you explain please thanks mammon.

How long would it be ran for? 4 weeks 6 weeks? Any links and ill read up on them thanks bro.

**Icemansoldier** · 03-17-2009, 10:12 AM

Yeah tbol = 6/8 week cycle, i just found out.

**lovbyts** · 03-18-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Icemansoldier

Im not scared of injections, no. Popping pills is so much easier and i cant say i get turned on by the fact ill need to inject myself every few days. Atm a long cycle is out of the questions. You are SCARED, face it and man up.

I think i read somewhere if you hit a nerve you could die. Just because you read it does not make it true just like when a woman says you have a big d*ck LOL

Ill look more into winny and dbol . But then again i may run SD,PP or epi. Defo no injectables yet anyway maybe in the future.If you arent ready for injections you arent ready for steroids.

I am as afraid of pinning as the next guy. I HATE needles almost as much as I hate spiders LOL
You need to get over it, it's not bad. Even though it has NEVER hurt I still dread doing it but I know it's a mental think, not physical. I also know it's 100x safer than doing pills and MUCH easier on your system if you know what you are doing. Pills it's easy to screw yourself up and you wont know until it's to late.