intro/questions/reentry

[bluesman]

Hi,

I am 34 years old. I used to work out pretty heavy when I was 18-24ish. Got pretty big (for me, not compared to others perhaps), I am 5'10" was 195 had a 225 bench , 315 squat, 400ish DL (all working weights).... Not an Olympic athlete, nor a Mr O, but I was pleased, and used it to further my interest in snowboarding, "impressing the girls" (ha ha), etc.

Well, I got into the career, hit a long plateau (talking nearly a year) and a couple of nagging injuries, yada yada yada, stopped working out, but kept on eating the same way (not intentionally), and though not entirely obese at my current weight of 195, it has now been around 10 years since I was away from heavy lifting.. I just got into a "couch to 5k routine", along with some chins (doing weighted), push ups (elevated legs, w/ backpack) and situps to get my body used to work. I have been at this for a couple of months now, and feel pretty tight. I have recently pulled my lower stomach area recently doing something dumb. It is not a hernia (had it checked by a doc)

Couple of points about my history:

In the past, I used to overtrain a lot. That continuous achy feeling was always intentionally suppressed.. Energy wise, I was right there, but the knee started to hurt (probably bad form bouncing at the bottom on squats) and I also got a rotator cuff pull that I rehabbed back (rows or DL, I can't remember what did it), but the side laying 2lb hand weights brought me back in line...

I have relatively good discipline in dieting, really enjoy green veggies, chicken breast/red meat/fish/eggs/oatmeal etc. I am not saying that I currently eat clean, but just that I can eat tuna and broccoli for weeks on end, and be happy, as long as there is a bottle of Louisiana style hot sauce nearby.

Lately, even the light work I am doing now is causing me a lot of aches and pains! 34 is feeling as old as I have ever been!

If I have to take a stab at my b/f, I would give myself a 20-22%. (I am in the medical field, and physical evaluation is a lot of my job) When I was at my best, I was probably an honest 12-14%.

I have not done aas before, though considered it towards the end of the last time I was working out a lot. It seems that now that I am trying to get back into shape, it is harder to do. (Duh, but a painful revelation nonetheless). I am open to it if it will get me to my goals, which is 13% b/f and strong as hell again.

Once I get my diet in shape, and get to the higher teens in b/f, I will start to train at the gym again.

I am open to suggestions re: diet, training, gear, etc. So far, I think I will get into the gym by the end of summer, and if I am hurting and hard gaining in spite of my diet after a year of what would probably be noob gains, I would consider a test e cycle.

Sorry for the book, this is more or less my intro.. Love this website, I am learning a lot about what I have done wrong in the past.

Thanks!

[jamyjamjr]

go ahead and post up your diet, i'd be more then happy to help how ever i can.. we need to drop your bf a bit before you start using gear.. i'd say 15% (and so will everyone else, but ill admit i started at a higher bf myself but im sure u can imagine the higher risks involved due to estrogen level flux's.. blah blah)....

when we get your diet in check and your routine strong... we'll start you on a test e 500mg/wk cycle for 12 weeks, but first things first.. post up that diet in a detailed fashion

[bluesman]

Ok, this is an honest day, and not sandbagging... I really understand that I need improvement here.

brekky:
2 big cups of oatmeal, some jam and peanut butter in it
2-3 fried eggs
2 whole grain toast w/ butter
coffee, water, yogurt drink

mid snack:
damnit if I don't eat more carbs here, probably a cup of coffee and a few small rolls, a bowl of noodle soup, etc.

Lunch:
figure 8-12 oz of yellowfin tuna (my favorite, I try to get the small fish to keep mercury low, usually half raw, the other half grilled, or chicken, sometimes beef. some veggies, two cups of rice, with some curry /lentils, etc.

Dinner: something like above, usually with a big green salad and cheese, OO/vinegar dressed only.

Late snack: Peanuts, coffee, yogurt drink, piece of fruit.

I don't drink soft drinks at all, and really favor water

I only go out to eat once or twice a week. I am already seeing that I could just swap out the carb heavy snacks for boiled eggs or a CHON shake, for example, and try to drop the rice. (real hard to do, that rice)

The GF gets me to eat a hershey kiss or two, and I probably swipe a spoon of peanut butter now and then.

I would bet that 15% would be quite a bear to get to this time around. I don't want bitch tits though.

[WARMachine]

15% is the minimum needed to cycle safely. Anymore than that shows a complete lack of commitment to diet and training. I even advise as low as 12%.

But for now well work on your diet.

Ill critique it in a minute bro.

[jamyjamjr]

Ok, this is an honest day, and not sandbagging... I really understand that I need improvement here.

brekky:
2 big cups of oatmeal, some jam and peanut butter in it
2-3 fried eggs
2 whole grain toast w/ butter
coffee, water, yogurt drink

mid snack:
damnit if I don't eat more carbs here, probably a cup of coffee and a few small rolls, a bowl of noodle soup, etc.

Lunch:
figure 8-12 oz of yellowfin tuna (my favorite, I try to get the small fish to keep mercury low, usually half raw, the other half grilled, or chicken, sometimes beef. some veggies, two cups of rice, with some curry /lentils, etc.

Dinner: something like above, usually with a big green salad and cheese, OO/vinegar dressed only.

Late snack: Peanuts, coffee, yogurt drink, piece of fruit.

I don't drink soft drinks at all, and really favor water

I only go out to eat once or twice a week. I am already seeing that I could just swap out the carb heavy snacks for boiled eggs or a CHON shake, for example, and try to drop the rice. (real hard to do, that rice)

The GF gets me to eat a hershey kiss or two, and I probably swipe a spoon of peanut butter now and then.

I would bet that 15% would be quite a bear to get to this time around. I don't want bitch tits though.

yea, your diet needs a major overhaul... first off your not eating enough, secondly, your not eating the right things...

here's a link to a great diet/nutritional video.. this stuff was gold for me when i was at a higher bf.. take the time to watch all of it and post up your NEW diet for tweaking...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

when your done with that, you need to find your bmr

do some math

Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )



once you have that number, you can multiply it by an activity number to figure out your daily caloric expenditure, be honest here as this is the very cornerstone of your diet, if you are between two of the below activity levels then just multiply by a number in between them

To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:


If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9


let's start off with all that, then we'll look at your training routine....

[bluesman]

Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

BMR = 66 + (6.23 x 195) + (12.7 x 70) - (6.8 x 34)
BMR = 66 + 1214 + 889 - 231
BMR = 1938

I will say moderately active for the sake of argument...

1.55 x 1938= 3004

watching the videos now..

[jamyjamjr]

keep us posted

[bluesman]

Some thoughts on these videos..

Wow.

I wish this guy taught me organic chem and nutrition in college! He knows his stuff for sure. It was actually quite interesting to get the BB perspective on science. In the second video, he identifies the body type, I am a mesomorph, I do gain quickly. Even when I don't work out, people think I work out. I have some endomorphic tendencies to hold fat, but I have always been muscular and stronger than most people, all things considered.

So my nutritional needs are somewhere around (assuming my 195 is 200lb)
300g CHON (meso that wants to BB)
200g CHO (with my moderate activity level / job / lifestyle and current bf% I think I should stay in the lower area of this range)

My CHON preference is fresh tuna and chicken, and thankfully, those are pretty high wt/CHON ratio, at around 70g/CHON per 10 oz serving ... To hit my magic number of 300g per day, I would need to eat two servings of this (jacked up a little), and get another 180 grams from other sources. I already eat eggs (and have good cholesterol, by the way), so what if I were to just jack my eggs up.. The rest I can take up with whey powder, drinking say 3-4 shakes a day.

If I cut out the simple carb snacks and rice (easier said than done), and stick to the veggies (fibrous and starchy), oatmeal and lentils, I should not break much higher than 200g for my carbs by my calculations...

8 meals per day, (CHONg)

Brekkey
4 eggs, oatmeal (24g)

snack
mixed CHON shake (25g)

Lunch
10 oz chicken breast, veggies, salad (70g)

snack
Shake (25g)

simple sugar postworkout type drink

snack
WHEY shake (25g)

Dinner
10 oz tuna, veggies, salad (70g)

snack
eggwhite omelete, salad (30g)

snack
Caesin CHON shake (25g)

=295g CHON..

I am an afternoon workout guy

Am I doing it right? This would put me at the right CHON number. If I can limit my starch to oatmeal in the morning, and perhaps a post w/o drink to replenish glycogen, the rest of my carbs will be through fiberous items like squash and salad type vegetables. I feel I can get 200g of CHO from high quality sources only in the future... If I put on fat, I am going to cut back the carbs more.

Well, great videos.. I saved them to review my progress thus far.

Any input would be great.

Training? My typical workouts were like this, after about a year or two of tweaking it around:

Mon: Chest (tris) Wed: Back (Bis and Delts) Fri: Legs
Chest day as example:
Slow light dumbell flys for 1 set to warm up, or a light set of dumbell pullovers
Flat bench barbell 4 sets X 6-8 reps 80% max
Dumbell press incline 4 sets X 6 reps
Cable cross overs 3 sets, moderately higher reps

then, tris, I would hit with nosebreakers and standing rope pulldowns to finish them off...

Wed: Back day

DL on a box with rubber weights and chalk one warm up set with 25-30% weight then stretch out good for 5-10 minutes.

Then 4 sets X 6-10 reps 80% max
Then pulldowns, 6-8 reps 3 sets
Then one arm rows 4 x 6-8 reps

I would try to squeeze light shoulder work, usually some military presses/arnold presses, side raises...

Leg day: warmup on bike 5 minutes.
Squats, 5 sets X 12 reps
Hams 5X 10-12
Calf raises, 4-5 sets max out each...

My cardio was done after the weights, about an hour of inclined fast walking.

[bluesman]

It has been a long time.. Seems I forgot my bis and abs.. I hit bis on back day after the back was cooked, usually straight bar curls, followed by incline dumbell curls... Abs were whenever I felt like it, about every other trip..

HELP/ADVICE?

[jamyjamjr]

Some thoughts on these videos..

Wow.

I wish this guy taught me organic chem and nutrition in college! He knows his stuff for sure. It was actually quite interesting to get the BB perspective on science. In the second video, he identifies the body type, I am a mesomorph, I do gain quickly. Even when I don't work out, people think I work out. I have some endomorphic tendencies to hold fat, but I have always been muscular and stronger than most people, all things considered.

So my nutritional needs are somewhere around (assuming my 195 is 200lb)
300g CHON (meso that wants to BB)
200g CHO (with my moderate activity level / job / lifestyle and current bf% I think I should stay in the lower area of this range)

My CHON preference is fresh tuna and chicken, and thankfully, those are pretty high wt/CHON ratio, at around 70g/CHON per 10 oz serving ... To hit my magic number of 300g per day, I would need to eat two servings of this (jacked up a little), and get another 180 grams from other sources. I already eat eggs (and have good cholesterol, by the way), so what if I were to just jack my eggs up.. The rest I can take up with whey powder, drinking say 3-4 shakes a day.

If I cut out the simple carb snacks and rice (easier said than done), and stick to the veggies (fibrous and starchy), oatmeal and lentils, I should not break much higher than 200g for my carbs by my calculations...

8 meals per day, (CHONg)

Brekkey
4 eggs, oatmeal (24g)

snack
mixed CHON shake (25g)

Lunch
10 oz chicken breast, veggies, salad (70g)

snack
Shake (25g)

simple sugar postworkout type drink

snack
WHEY shake (25g)
omit the whey shake, that's your pwo drink do a small protien meal here
Dinner
10 oz tuna, veggies, salad (70g)

snack
eggwhite omelete, salad (30g)
replace eggwhite omlete with some beef.. about 6oz of roastbeef/london broil is best.. i say so cuz your body can use it over night, and it speeds up your metabolism better
snack
Caesin CHON shake (25g)

=295g CHON..
add another 30g of complex carbs to your diet... when is up to you, do it on a prn (as needed) basis... dont go keto, your workouts will suffer
I am an afternoon workout guy

Am I doing it right? This would put me at the right CHON number. If I can limit my starch to oatmeal in the morning, and perhaps a post w/o drink to replenish glycogen, the rest of my carbs will be through fiberous items like squash and salad type vegetables. I feel I can get 200g of CHO from high quality sources only in the future... If I put on fat, I am going to cut back the carbs more.
the diet, comparied to your first one, looks like gold next to sh*t.. well done....

Well, great videos.. I saved them to review my progress thus far.

Any input would be great.

Training? My typical workouts were like this, after about a year or two of tweaking it around:

Mon: Chest (tris) Wed: Back (Bis and Delts) Fri: Legs
Chest day as example:
Slow light dumbell flys for 1 set to warm up, or a light set of dumbell pullovers
Flat bench barbell 4 sets X 6-8 reps 80% max
Dumbell press incline 4 sets X 6 reps
Cable cross overs 3 sets, moderately higher reps

then, tris, I would hit with nosebreakers and standing rope pulldowns to finish them off...

Wed: Back day

DL on a box with rubber weights and chalk one warm up set with 25-30% weight then stretch out good for 5-10 minutes.

Then 4 sets X 6-10 reps 80% max
Then pulldowns, 6-8 reps 3 sets
Then one arm rows 4 x 6-8 reps

I would try to squeeze light shoulder work, usually some military presses/arnold presses, side raises...

Leg day: warmup on bike 5 minutes.
Squats, 5 sets X 12 reps
Hams 5X 10-12
Calf raises, 4-5 sets max out each...

My cardio was done after the weights, about an hour of inclined fast walking.

lower your cardio to 45min max, anything after that is catabolic.... why do you have your workout split like this??? Im not saying its horrible, im just saying your better of doing one muscle group a day 5 days a week..
ie...
mon
chest
tues
back
wed
arms
thrus
shoulders
fri
legs
sat-sun rest
16 sets minimum for all except arms and legs, which should be closer to 24

[bluesman]

lower your cardio to 45min max, anything after that is catabolic.... why do you have your workout split like this??? Im not saying its horrible, im just saying your better of doing one muscle group a day 5 days a week..
ie...
mon
chest
tues
back
wed
arms
thrus
shoulders
fri
legs
sat-sun rest
16 sets minimum for all except arms and legs, which should be closer to 24

That was just my routine at the time. It was a bit of a long haul to my gym (nearly 45 minutes each way, and out of the way of my work and home), so I could only justify going 3X a week... I had to make it count... Probably held me back...

The 5 day a week split looks great, and once I am back in the swing, that is doable. (my new gym-home-work is about 5 minutes away)...

Point taken on the cardio. This was back when the thinking was more = better.

Thanks for the advice on the diet as well. The video did mention to change up the protein as much as possible.. The reason I really like eggs is convenience (same reason I like shakes). Though, I don't think it would be hard to do up a broil once a week and freeze it off... Sunday is cooking day, I usually would get out a giant roasting pan and do off 3 lb of chicken breast and a dozen baked potatoes, then a pot of water and 3 dozen eggs, boiled. This time around, I am going to be a little more selective and varied, as per the diet video and your recommendations......

"omit the whey shake, that's your pwo drink do a small protien meal here"
I thought your pwo drink should be a mono saccharide type to replace glycogen.. The whey shake was just another CHON meal an hour or so after my workout to get me to 300g for the day..

Thanks for the props on the new diet. I have been running keto / semi keto unconsciously for a long time... I know that hurt my workouts and productivity in the past.. Those videos were great, and so is your help.. Thanks.

[jamyjamjr]

pwo is for BOTH protien and carbs.... 5og of protien per shake usually.. i use a shake that has 60g per serving and add some fruit or a semi-simple carb (a 3 chained carbohydrate)... these work best.. if the carb is too simple, it'll just store into your liver from what i hear... dont quote me on it though.. im just plain it safe through rumor..

you can also add some more protien to your b-fast.. something like turkey bacon can add an easy 15g to your meal, do another two eggs and your at 50g... that's perfect for breakfast..

my usual breakfast
10 egg whites
a cup of natural oats
2 turkey bacons (n if im feelin good, maybe replace it with a chicken&turkey sausage)
usualy ends up being 62g protien, 30g carbs, 7 grams fat = 428 cal

[bluesman]

OK, I see. You combine your CHON and CHO in your pwo.. Fair enough, I think we are both essentially on the same page here... I was just saying, literally, a small simple sugar drink to replace glycogen stores (in the liver) for the next work out..

Anyway, I believe the diet is pretty good for a start.. With the expected 100g of fat (+ my hopeful EFAs, with all the fish I eat), I am at 2900kcal, or just 100 and change below my BMR calculation.. Should be close enough to go for it and see where it ends up...

CHON powder is way more money now than what I used to pay.. I remember when ON 100%Whey 10lb sack was about $40+, only about 4 years ago.... Wow.. what happened to make it double (or more) the price?

[bluesman]

So here is what has happened.

I went to the doctor to get checked out and cleared for working out again. He found an abdominal hernia (about an inch below and 4 inches to the left of the belly button). I think I got the hernia a couple of months ago...I had my surgery for it that evening (things move fast in the Philippines if you have the cash!) and was home the next day. This was a few days ago, I am done with the pain meds (enterocoxib, not available in the US, but you might think of it as the big brother to celebrex, very, very effective by the way, only one tab per day, no side effects!) and antibiotics. He said I am free to move around like in normal daily life stuff as I can tolerate, but should avoid lifting for 3 months! I am a bit devastated, as I was just about to embark on a big comeback to fitness and lifting again.

So, lets say for arguments sake that I cannot work out for three months. WHAT THE %$#@ would you do in my situation?

Here is my plan:

I am planning on doing a variation of the diet that I worked out above. Since I am stocked up on CHON powder and chicken breasts, and tuna after all. So, here is my new program for the next few months.

Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

BMR = 66 + (6.23 x 195) + (12.7 x 70) - (6.8 x 34)
BMR = 66 + 1214 + 889 - 231
BMR = 1938

, then sedentary multiplier 1938 X 1.2
=2325 cal

this means I will drop the pwo, 2nd breakfast and one snack to get to my 2325 for sedentary maintenance, keeping my protein at 1 g/lb body weight, as recommended by Milos in the videos linked in this post for "healthy people who don't work out" rather than what I had originally gone for thinking I was going to hit the gym like a beast!

Does it seem reasonable to do this? For me, I think my diet was my big hurdle in the past for my gains. I figure if I follow this diet even in the healing process, I am looking forward to leaning out, sparing as much muscle as I can, and developing the habit of eating clean.

Any objections, clarifications or advice to this point would be appreciated. I am gonna be climbing the walls (not literally I guess) in the next 3 months.. SHIT!!

[jamyjamjr]

So here is what has happened.

I went to the doctor to get checked out and cleared for working out again. He found an abdominal hernia (about an inch below and 4 inches to the left of the belly button). I think I got the hernia a couple of months ago...I had my surgery for it that evening (things move fast in the Philippines if you have the cash!) and was home the next day. This was a few days ago, I am done with the pain meds (enterocoxib, not available in the US, but you might think of it as the big brother to celebrex, very, very effective by the way, only one tab per day, no side effects!) and antibiotics. He said I am free to move around like in normal daily life stuff as I can tolerate, but should avoid lifting for 3 months! I am a bit devastated, as I was just about to embark on a big comeback to fitness and lifting again.

So, lets say for arguments sake that I cannot work out for three months. WHAT THE %$#@ would you do in my situation?

Here is my plan:

I am planning on doing a variation of the diet that I worked out above. Since I am stocked up on CHON powder and chicken breasts, and tuna after all. So, here is my new program for the next few months.

Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

BMR = 66 + (6.23 x 195) + (12.7 x 70) - (6.8 x 34)
BMR = 66 + 1214 + 889 - 231
BMR = 1938

, then sedentary multiplier 1938 X 1.2
=2325 cal

this means I will drop the pwo, 2nd breakfast and one snack to get to my 2325 for sedentary maintenance, keeping my protein at 1 g/lb body weight, as recommended by Milos in the videos linked in this post for "healthy people who don't work out" rather than what I had originally gone for thinking I was going to hit the gym like a beast!

Does it seem reasonable to do this? For me, I think my diet was my big hurdle in the past for my gains. I figure if I follow this diet even in the healing process, I am looking forward to leaning out, sparing as much muscle as I can, and developing the habit of eating clean.

Any objections, clarifications or advice to this point would be appreciated. I am gonna be climbing the walls (not literally I guess) in the next 3 months.. SHIT!!

it actually looks good.. sorry to hear about the injury man.. that shit sucks.. i woke up this morning next to my chick and my shoulders been hurting like a bitch all day. i think i slept on it wrong...

the only thing that i might change up is sacrifice some carbs for more protien, but the way you have it works well also...

[bluesman]

Alright bro, I'll try this out.. Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll be trollin' the injury forum now, haha..