Advise on course

**shameless-uk** · 03-29-2009, 11:35 AM

Hi all..
Came accross this forum & am taken back by how much information & knowledge there is on here!! So much it would take a lifetime to go though!! Wish i'd found this a few years ago!

You seem a good bunch & i would love to have your advice & guidence!!

I have done 4 very hap-hazzard steroid courses over the last 2 years. Finding the information i needed has been very hard & listening to other people/friends who i thought new there stuff, didn't even know about ptc when i asked them!!

So i decided to go it alone & found as much info as i could!

I am at present half way though my 12 week course. Week 6.
I'm taking 500mg Deca & 400mg Testosterone Cypionate . I will be lowering the Deca to 250mg towards the last 2 weeks. Started off at 250mg also & built it up to 500mg.
I also started with Danabol pills, 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks.

I have got Nolvadex /clomid pills to take after the course.
Was going to give myself 1 shot of HCG 5000iu after the 12th and final week & then 2 weeks after my last shot}
Nolvadex 40mg/20/20/20 (each day, weeks) Clomid 100mg/50/50/50
What do you think to this as PCT?

But last week i noticed a marble sized lump under one of my nipples, quite tender. The other one seams ok, maybe a little sore, no lump, so i started taking 20mg Nolvadex a day as of now!
Any sugestions?

I have been looking at this site & found that i may need some Letrozole . I may be asking a stupid question but when i i click the link for letro it shows me liquid in a green bottle. When i try yo buy some over here in the UK i get offered pills 2.5mg. Is this right? It says its for the treatment of local or metastatic breast cancer?

I am 34 years old. 5'10" & 87kg
My body fat is 10%

Any advise on the course i'm taking, the nipple lump & what i should be taking after the course would be great!!

If there is any more information you need please ask

Thanks

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-29-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by shameless-uk

Hi all..
Came accross this forum & am taken back by how much information & knowledge there is on here!! So much it would take a lifetime to go though!! Wish i'd found this a few years ago!

You seem a good bunch & i would love to have your advice & guidence!!

I have done 4 very hap-hazzard steroid courses over the last 2 years. Finding the information i needed has been very hard & listening to other people/friends who i thought new there stuff, didn't even know about ptc when i asked them!!

So i decided to go it alone & found as much info as i could!

I am at present half way though my 12 week course. Week 6.
I'm taking 500mg Deca & 400mg Testosterone Cypionate . I will be lowering the Deca to 250mg towards the last 2 weeks. Started off at 250mg also & built it up to 500mg.
I also started with Danabol pills, 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks.

I have got Nolvadex /clomid pills to take after the course.
Was going to give myself 1 shot of HCG 5000iu after the 12th and final week & then 2 weeks after my last shot}
Nolvadex 40mg/20/20/20 (each day, weeks) Clomid 100mg/50/50/50
What do you think to this as PCT?

But last week i noticed a marble sized lump under one of my nipples, quite tender. The other one seams ok, maybe a little sore, no lump, so i started taking 20mg Nolvadex a day as of now!
Any sugestions?

I have been looking at this site & found that i may need some Letrozole . I may be asking a stupid question but when i i click the link for letro it shows me liquid in a green bottle. When i try yo buy some over here in the UK i get offered pills 2.5mg. Is this right? It says its for the treatment of local or metastatic breast cancer?

I am 34 years old. 5'10" & 87kg
My body fat is 10%

Any advise on the course i'm taking, the nipple lump & what i should be taking after the course would be great!!

If there is any more information you need please ask

Thanks

Letro comes in liquid, capsule, or tablet forms.

Letro is pretty powerful AI with the ability to suppress over 95% of the estrogen in your body.

You can do letro or Armidex which is less powerful in suppression.

How is the lump feeling now?

**LATS60** · 03-29-2009, 12:17 PM

Welcome to the board fellow brit.
Where to start,,,,,, cycle was poorly thought out you should have started on the doses you are on now and not tapered up.
You don't need to taper off the deca but you do need to stop it 2wks before the cyp to give the decanoate ester time to clear.
One shot of 5000iu of HCG will do nothing.
You shouldn't be taking nolva for you're possible gyno while running a 19nor because it is possible that the gyno is progesterone related and nolva upregulates PGr, but you don't know for sure thats why it's always recommended to run a single compound first.
I like the PCT, looks fine.

If i think of anything else i'll let you know LOL.

**hellapimpin** · 03-29-2009, 12:19 PM

Welcome Aboard Bro! .and i remmeber b4 i found this board..i had friends who said they knew how to cycle it correctly..tried to get me to take 1shot of deca a week for 6 weeks..lmao! so glad i didnt go that route.

**shameless-uk** · 03-29-2009, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the reply Immortal

Lump is still there, no bigger if anything a bit smaller.. But not much.
Less sore than it was.
Will get Letro pills, they are 2.5mg. What daily dose do you advise?
Will also see if i can get hold of Armidex.
Should i take them asap?
Any other advise woukd be greatfully recived

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-29-2009, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by shameless-uk

Thanks for the reply Immortal

Lump is still there, no bigger if anything a bit smaller.. But not much.
Less sore than it was.
Will get Letro pills, they are 2.5mg. What daily dose do you advise?
Will also see if i can get hold of Armidex.
Should i take them asap?
Any other advise woukd be greatfully recived

For letro dosage look here

All you need to know about GYNO.

**shameless-uk** · 03-29-2009, 12:42 PM

Hi Lats,
Thanks for that.
Will keep the Deca to 500mg & stop 2 weeks before Cyp.

You shouldn't be taking nolva for you're possible gyno while running a 19nor because it is possible that the gyno is progesterone related and nolva upregulates PGr, but you don't know for sure thats why it's always recommended to run a single compound first.

Not sure what this means? 19nor? PGr? But will stop the Nolva & place order for Letro plus read up more!!

One shot of 5000iu of HCG will do nothing.

Should i forget about this? I get 3 5000iu. or do them all. When & how?
Thanks

**shameless-uk** · 03-29-2009, 12:48 PM

For letro dosage look here

All you need to know about GYNO.

Wow!! Thanks for that!! At a glance it looks like i have to break the pills into halfs/quarters!!
Will print out & study it fully!!

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-29-2009, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by shameless-uk

Hi Lats,
Thanks for that.
Will keep the Deca to 500mg & stop 2 weeks before Cyp.

Not sure what this means? 19nor? PGr? But will stop the Nolva & place order for Letro plus read up more!!

It is contested in studies what he said, some studies say that taking nolva while on a 19nor upregulates PGr and others say it doesn't since the nolva blocks the estrogen in the breast which progesterone needs some level of estrogen to be an issue.

Mammon can explain it better

Should i forget about this? I get 3 5000iu. or do them all. When & how?
Thanks

Usually HCG is run in the last 2 weeks of a cycle and in the first 2 weeks before PCT (4 weeks total).

500iu twice a week is what most people do, its you decision if you want to get more HCG and run HCG.

In bold

**LATS60** · 03-29-2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by shameless-uk

Hi Lats,
Thanks for that.
Will keep the Deca to 500mg & stop 2 weeks before Cyp.

Not sure what this means? 19nor? PGr? But will stop the Nolva & place order for Letro plus read up more!!

Should i forget about this? I get 3 5000iu. or do them all. When & how?
Thanks

Sorry mate, yea 19nor, IE deca and tren when stacked with aromatising compounds like test can cause progesterone related gyno, nolva has the ability to upregulate PGr (progesterone receptors) so it could possibly aggravate the gyno.
As you are on deca i would advise HCG , 500iu 3 x wk from now till start of PCT. There are other protocols but you just have to find what works for you but the above protocol is a good place to start, but i wouldn't start it until you get you;re AI, adex, aromasin or maybe letro, this is because HCG has the ability for secondary aromatisation leading to a further increase in estrogen.

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-29-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by shameless-uk

Wow!! Thanks for that!! At a glance it looks like i have to break the pills into halfs/quarters!!
Will print out & study it fully!!

You could go the liquid route if breaking the pills is an issue for you.

**LATS60** · 03-29-2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

In bold

Here we go again, you will find that IS can be argumentative for the sake of it and please take his advice with a large pinch of salt.

As for progesterone related gyno needing estrogen, well there is estrogen, he;s using test for god sake.
Nolva is a SERM, if you know what that acronym means.
There are two types of estrogen receptors in breast tissue nolva cannot block them both because it's Selective.
Nolva does upregulate Pgr, read it's pharmacology profile in the medical papers.

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-29-2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

Here we go again, you will find that IS can be argumentative for the sake of it and please take his advice with a large pinch of salt.

As for progesterone related gyno needing estrogen, well there is estrogen, he;s using test for god sake.
Nolva is a SERM, if you know what that acronym means.
There are two types of estrogen receptors in breast tissue nolva cannot block them both because it's Selective.
Nolva does upregulate Pgr, read it's pharmacology profile in the medical papers.

Like I said, it can be debated, I didn't say you were wrong I said there is conflicting views and information on that subject. I don't want to get into another argument in another person's thread. Mammon can explain it better than I can.

I am surprised you can read my posts, I thought you ignored me.

**LATS60** · 03-29-2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Like I said, it can be debated, I don't want to get into another argument in another person's thread. Mammon can explain it better than I can.

That wasn't all you said, i'll get mammon over here, we are both in agreement and have discussed this many times, at the end of the day i said it could POSSIBLY aggravate the gyno, so why take the risk????????

I took you off my ignore list so i could correct some of the misinformation you give out.

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-29-2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

That wasn't all you said, i'll get mammon over here, we are both in agreement and have discussed this many times, at the end of the day i said it could POSSIBLY aggravate the gyno, so why take the risk????????

I took you off my ignore list so i could correct some of the misinformation you give out.

Ok, you said that it isn't smart to run nolva and 19-nor's because it can upregulate PGr which could aggravate gyno. Correct?

If that is what you said, I agree it can POSSIBLY aggravate the gyno, however, before the whole "novla and 19-nor" idea came out people were running nolva fine, I have used nolva on 19-nor's, people I know have, and mammon has as well.

Now there could be a small % of users who do get gyno aggravated from running nolva on 19-nor's, the pathway which can lead to it is not exactly layed out completely.

The better question would be why this user doesn't have caber or bromo on hand if progesterone gyno could even be an issue.

**Mammon** · 03-29-2009, 02:19 PM

yeah thats pretty much the way i see it..running nolvadex could possibly have a negative effect do to the ability to upregulate the PGr when using a 19-nor.. some studies have shown this is the case.
now IMO.. progesterone does not cause estrogenic symptoms in the absence of estrogen, it can at worst only aggravate estrogenic symptoms. as long as you are using nolvadex, ER is blocked in breast tissue and you progesterone doesn't cause any problems..

there is also the possibility that neither a SERM or an AI would work because nandrolone has been shown to activate estrogen response elements through the AR. in that case the only way to stop estrogenic action from nandrolone is to block the AR, which would block all gains.

with that said i have no issues with running nolvadex with 19-nors..have done it for years.
and if im having gyno issues im not going to avoid nolvadex because of a 19-nor and start letro that takes up to 60 days to reach therapeutic levels because of a possibility of progesterone related sides..

had a rough night..went to bed when the sun was warm... lol
ill come back to this...