Nolva or A-dex during cycle?

[Gears]

I was wondering what would be better to run during my cycle, .25mg a-dex eod or Nolva 10-20mg ed? I'm running Tren/Test and I know you arn't supposed to use Nolva with a 19-nor, but i'm running prami at .5mg ed which pretty much takes care of any possible prolactin problems.

So what would hinger gains more, lower estrogen, or lower IGF-1 levels that nolva is 'supposed' to produce?

[boxer1]

don't use nolva during cycle, which esters of test/tren are you running?. whats the reason for using ais?, are you gyno prone or suffer bad estro related sides?. The reason i ask is i don't believe in using ais unless needed, i have found from personal experience that they will hinder gains and may produce worst sides than you wouldve got had you not run them.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

i have found from personal experience that they will hinder gains and may produce worst sides than you wouldve got had you not run them.

What ype of sides exactly are you talking about?

[CHUCKYthentic]

id go adex, nolva could invite more progesterone sides

imo even though you re running prami, one could cancel out the other, never know

also jmo, lower igf-1 levels would hinder gains more

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I was wondering what would be better to run during my cycle, .25mg a-dex eod or Nolva 10-20mg ed? I'm running Tren/Test and I know you arn't supposed to use Nolva with a 19-nor, but i'm running prami at .5mg ed which pretty much takes care of any possible prolactin problems.

So what would hinger gains more, lower estrogen, or lower IGF-1 levels that nolva is 'supposed' to produce?

What's prami?

Estrogen and igf-1 kinda go hand in hand. In medical research testosterone administration is shown to increase igf-1, but it was said to be from the estrogen aromatized from the test. Estrogen does stimulate GH so that would make sense. On the flip side AIs have been shown to increase IGF-1. This makes no sense since they lower estrogen. But, because they increase testosterone, i speculate that androgens have their own ability to stimulate GH/igf-1 independant of estrogen. Now nolva, a SERM, lowers igf-1 yes. it blocks estrogen by competetng for the receptor sites but more so in certain tissues than others. My question with nolva which we will never know, is will it block estrogen in the muscle cells? As estrogen has anabolic actions of its own...like glute-4 up regulation which would increase glycogen uptake, and androgen receptor density. So if it didnt block it in the muscle i might choose nolva on cycle, but we'll never know i dont think.
Anecdotely, my bro was on a-dex and test prop 100mg eod and on a dht-like progestin oral called Max LMG. 2 days after his last shot and las pill he had elevated igf-1 one levels beyong the high normal. FYI, u might be aware that test prop is less estrogenic of the testosterones also

[Gaspari1255]

Nolvadex combined with a 19-nor is no go.

[boxer1]

What ype of sides exactly are you talking about?

zero sex drive, fatigue, depression. all the result of low estro.

[Gears]

What's prami?

Estrogen and igf-1 kinda go hand in hand. In medical research testosterone administration is shown to increase igf-1, but it was said to be from the estrogen aromatized from the test. Estrogen does stimulate GH so that would make sense. On the flip side AIs have been shown to increase IGF-1. This makes no sense since they lower estrogen. But, because they increase testosterone, i speculate that androgens have their own ability to stimulate GH/igf-1 independant of estrogen. Now nolva, a SERM, lowers igf-1 yes. it blocks estrogen by competetng for the receptor sites but more so in certain tissues than others. My question with nolva which we will never know, is will it block estrogen in the muscle cells? As estrogen has anabolic actions of its own...like glute-4 up regulation which would increase glycogen uptake, and androgen receptor density. So if it didnt block it in the muscle i might choose nolva on cycle, but we'll never know i dont think.
Anecdotely, my bro was on a-dex and test prop 100mg eod and on a dht-like progestin oral called Max LMG. 2 days after his last shot and las pill he had elevated igf-1 one levels beyong the high normal. FYI, u might be aware that test prop is less estrogenic of the testosterones also

It's Pramipexole, a dopamine agonist thats supposed to be stronger than cabaser.

[countrybhoy]

Nolvadex combined with a 19-nor is no go.

why m8 . can you explain this to me .

[Immortal Soldier]

Nolvadex combined with a 19-nor is no go.

Not necessarily, it is not recommended, but many vets have run nolva while on 19-nors the whole point comes down to the amount of test you are running along side the 19-nor since they don't aromatize only the test can, progesterone cannot survive without estrogen so running a-dex on cycle and nolva would in theory be fine.

But then again it's more of a "if it works for you" type thing, some people get gyno just by looking at a vial of test, anothers can take 1gram of test with no AI's and feel perfectly fine.

[Gears]

Not necessarily, it is not recommended, but many vets have run nolva while on 19-nors the whole point comes down to the amount of test you are running along side the 19-nor since they don't aromatize only the test can, progesterone cannot survive without estrogen so running a-dex on cycle and nolva would in theory be fine.

But then again it's more of a "if it works for you" type thing, some people get gyno just by looking at a vial of test, anothers can take 1gram of test with no AI's and feel perfectly fine.

Well, I planned on running one or the other, not both. I have Prami for prolactin so I don't see how that would be an issue...

[Immortal Soldier]

Well, I planned on running one or the other, not both. I have Prami for prolactin so I don't see how that would be an issue...

Nolva and A-dex are completely different

Nolva: stops estrogen from binding with breast tissue to cause gyno (SERM)

A-dex: Lowers estrogen in the body (AI)

So if you have high estrogen levels and run nolva you can still get gyno because the estrogen can still bind to breast tissue just at a much lower rate/chance because of the nolva.

If you were to run one I would say A-dex for sure.

[RipitFuel]

very interesting.. there are so many opinons out there about PCT.. i have been told time and time again to do Clomid and Novladex for my after cycle and to do a-dex during the cycle.. only use a-dex if needed.. ie: gyno appears.. well my buddy didnt have clomid.. so i got Nov and A-dex.. not to steal the thread but hopefully i will be alright..

[garythompson]

don't use nolva during cycle, which esters of test/tren are you running?. whats the reason for using ais?, are you gyno prone or suffer bad estro related sides?. The reason i ask is i don't believe in using ais unless needed, i have found from personal experience that they will hinder gains and may produce worst sides than you wouldve got had you not run them.

definately

[RipitFuel]

research says that Clomid is a weaker of the two compared to Novladex. Research says Novladex will be just fine for a PCT.. however.. it is smart to have a-dex right? and if signs show

[Immortal Soldier]

research says that Clomid is a weaker of the two compared to Novladex. Research says Novladex will be just fine for a PCT.. however.. it is smart to have a-dex right? and if signs show

Nolva is more powerful on a mg to mg basis, but when running a 19-nor nolva alone won't be able to restart the system as quickly without clomid. They work together in a synergistic effect to raise the levels faster.

[redfield]

don't use nolva during cycle, which esters of test/tren are you running?. whats the reason for using ais?, are you gyno prone or suffer bad estro related sides?. The reason i ask is i don't believe in using ais unless needed, i have found from personal experience that they will hinder gains and may produce worst sides than you wouldve got had you not run them.

So how you know that you're gyno prone? I mean, you should start using ais ONLY if you're feeling gyno symptoms and other sides

[Gears]

Right now I adjusted my cycle to
500mg/Test-E/wk
350mg/Tren-A/wk ED injections

I'm not gyno prone, but I do suffer other ill effects from estrogen like low lidibo.

[mg1228]

if he were to see signs of gyno ie sore, sensitive nipples would it be okay to take nolva till that supresses--thats what ive read from some of the so called experts

[boxer1]

So how you know that you're gyno prone? I mean, you should start using ais ONLY if you're feeling gyno symptoms and other sides

the trouble is you don't know until you cycle, and yes i would keep ais to hand and only use if symptoms develop. Im sure a lot of people will disagree with this approach and say prevention is better than cure but like any advice i have ever given on this board i will only speak of things i have personally experienced.