nolvadex and gains

**stangnjuice** · 04-16-2009, 07:45 PM

if i take nolvadex during my test deca cycle to combat gyno will this hinder my gains at all

**Bigmax** · 04-16-2009, 07:49 PM

It has been said that Nolva can effect gains up to 40%...but i have not see any concrete evidence of this.

**stangnjuice** · 04-16-2009, 07:51 PM

is there a better alternative or will all etsro blockers hurt gains

**Big** · 04-16-2009, 07:52 PM

you need estrogen to grow, anything that limits estrogen could potentially hinder gains. I prefer arimidex .

**stangnjuice** · 04-16-2009, 07:55 PM

thanks once symptoms go away i stop the nolvadex normal gains will resume right

**Immortal Soldier** · 04-16-2009, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Big

you need estrogen to grow, anything that limits estrogen could potentially hinder gains. I prefer arimidex.

Interesting you say that then refer to a-dex, since Nolva doesn't limit estrogen it merely prevents it from binding with certain receptors (namely breast tissue). A-dex on the other hand actually limits the amount of estrogen produced in the body so it would actually be worse in terms of hindering gains.

Nonethless, this shouldn't even be a discussed since he said he is running test/deca and 19-nor's and nolva as you know have been shown to increase progesterone related sides so AI's than become the only option.

**J-Dogg** · 04-16-2009, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Big

you need estrogen to grow, anything that limits estrogen could potentially hinder gains. I prefer arimidex.

I have no evidence what so ever, and this might be full of holes.

But I've always just ran the Nova and not the AI's to combat unless I'm using higher doses of test.

The SERM should not effect your estrogen levels, it's still there but it's just not binding to the receptor.

I'm not sure if it "not" binding to the receptor sites, would effect the growth or if the estrogen levels just have to be in your blood.

I think a lot of the "estrogen" gains are just water/bloat weight though. Which is fine, helps with strength and probably your joints.

Again, I'm not sure if it matters if it's binding, or if it just has to be in the blood. But I'd rather that nasty stuff not bind to anything! lol

As for the deca ...the 19 I think some people advise that the nova could make the progestrone sides worse. Maybe consider running some camber? and high dose b6.

**stangnjuice** · 04-16-2009, 08:06 PM

what would be the smallest dosage per day but would still be effectve

**Big** · 04-16-2009, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by stangnjuice

what would be the smallest dosage per day but would still be effectve

nolva 10mg/day, or arimidex .25mg/eod

**Jumbo18** · 04-16-2009, 08:17 PM

so nolva pct not a good choice? nolva/clomid combo, or stay away from nolva?

**Big** · 04-16-2009, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jumbo18

so nolva pct not a good choice? nolva/clomid combo, or stay away from nolva?

we weren't talking about pct.

**bene7422** · 04-16-2009, 08:48 PM

I've run nolva on cycle before and personally I felt that it didn't hinder my gains at all just keep the dosage low at 10mg like stated above and yes you should run nolva/clomid in pct

**Big** · 04-16-2009, 08:59 PM

that's why I recommend the modest dosage of arimidex , I don't feel .25/eod will noticeably affect gains.

**CJ.** · 04-17-2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Big

that's why I recommend the modest dosage of arimidex, I don't feel .25/eod will noticeably affect gains.

+1

also nolva should definitly be ran with clomid pct, it has been researched that it is stronger than clomid, plus I've heard that high doses of clomid can cause irreversible eyesight damage.(<-don't know how true that is, just what i read.)

**WARMachine** · 04-19-2009, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by CJ.

+1

also nolva should definitly be ran with clomid pct, it has been researched that it is stronger than clomid, plus I've heard that high doses of clomid can cause irreversible eyesight damage.(<-don't know how true that is, just what i read.)

^ thats not true at all.

But in response, BOTH Nolva and Clomid should be included in PCT.

Im currently working on additions to my sticky that include PCT, the drugs we use and why.

**J-Dogg** · 04-16-2009, 09:03 PM

Oh, the only evedence I DO have with using nova through a cycle is just personal experince on my current cycle.

I'm up 24lbs and i've lost body fat using 40mgs of nova through the entire cycle about.

14 weeks EQ 600mgs/week
8 weeks test e 250mgs/week
4 weeks tbol 50mgs/day
4 weeks tbol 80mgs/day

Granted, my diet improved a ton when I started too. But I've had amazing gains, with using 40mgs daily.

189lbs, got as high as 226 and have cut down to 213 @ 6' and nearing single digit BF now.

**Big** · 04-16-2009, 09:04 PM

wow, why 40mg?

**J-Dogg** · 04-16-2009, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Big

wow, why 40mg?

I was orginally going to do a longer, non-armonitizing cycle.....t-bol and var and run nova at the same time to combat/reverse some gyno.

Was just playing around with it, but would get some gains in the process. No real studies done on these drugs, so we have to play around with them from time to time.

Did not take long before I decided to just run a cycle and opt for surgery at the end of the summer season though.

The nova does help the breast tissue decrease, but it will come back when the regimen quits.