Guys please critique my first injectable cycle if possible...

[eyeothetiger]

Hi guys,well after much advice on here I have decided to grow some balls and go with my first injectable cycle :-). Just looking for some feedback before I get going now.

My stats are:

30 years old
5'10"
170lbs
Very little body fat
Been training for some time,eat right and very well but reached big plateau

Cycle is looking as follows:

Weeks 1-4 40mg Dbol per day as kicker
Weeks 1-4 1g Milk Thistle per day
Weeks 1-10 250mg Sust shot once a week

Nolva on hand and PCT yet to be sorted.

I am aware that 250mg per week of Sust may seem little but can I use that and still see decent results?; have heard so but trust you guys opinion more.

Any help very much appreciated and thanks for your time.

[Gappa]

It depends on how your body responds. But VERY smart to start low rather than to just go total roidmonger. As you have no inj history to compare to ease into it.. You may be like me and benefit from a very small amount over a longer cycle period. Especially your first time when your receptors are fresh.. It is also good you waited till you were older.. Go into it thinking you will do a standard 10 week but remember you don't know how it will effect you.. You may not really start to see massive results till around your 8th week and want to continue for another 8 to 10 weeks.. That's the thing EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.... If you are going to do it go all the way with it get as much as you can out of it. Play with it.. Don't put anything in stone, go by what your body tells you.

[Gappa]

what is your training history in years? hardcore BBer or rec lifter

[T-MOS]

At 5'10, you should be able to get to 200 lbs NATURALLY BEFORE ever needing steroids , so I would get my diet looked at and straightened out before starting

Sust needs to be injected Every Other Day, NOT once a week

You will need more than just nolva for PCT, get clomid as well

you may want an AI on hand for during the cycle like arimidex

Your Plateau is most likely due to your DIET

[jimmyinkedup]

Cycle looks fine except injection schedule id go with enanthate or cypionate 2x week. A word to the wise sort pct and have ALL compounds needed on hand for cycle and pct pre start of cycle. Nothing wrong with starting at 250 i personally like higher but hey its all good.

[jfalco]

Most people like to shoot sust EOD to take full advantage of short eaters, but it was designed for hrt and once a month injections, so once a week will def. do something. If you want to pin only once a week, I suggest going with a single long ester (enat or cyp), as your blood levels will be much more stable.

As far as low does, the only thing I know is from a thread started by fireguy. He said he is on 250 mg/wk of test e and seeing great results, so a low dose can definitely work.

I'm sure you know this, but don't even consider starting this until you get your head around PCT.

[eyeothetiger]

Ok guys thanks very much some great answers. Was aware that I should maybe consider test e instead, can get sust or test e so nice to have choice. If I went with the sust though would I split it up 125mg each injection if I wanted to shoot twice per week?. Also how long can you run sust or test e for in one cycle?,have heard some guys run it all year round :-/.

[eyeothetiger]

In answer Gappa I wouldn't call myself hardcore,more rec lifter but committed. Growing up I was quite slim,140 lbs max till started training in my mid 20's. So in summary been training 4 years and put on solid 30 lbs as like say very little fat on me,I find it easy to stay cut.

[eatrainrest]

At 5'10, you should be able to get to 200 lbs NATURALLY BEFORE ever needing steroids , so I would get my diet looked at and straightened out before starting

Sust needs to be injected Every Other Day, NOT once a week

You will need more than just nolva for PCT, get clomid as well

you may want an AI on hand for during the cycle like arimidex

Your Plateau is most likely due to your DIET

diet and training.. ill send you the most helpful links of your life... then head to the diet forum

ALL LINKS, ID WATCH THEM IN ORDER MAKE SURE TO WATCH ALL THE VIDS IN THE 1ST!
So you wanna learn how to Diet? ** WATCH ALL DVD VIDEOS FIRST!
Another way to calculate BMR BMR CALCULATIONS

come to the diet forum with a proposed diet AFTER THOSE VIDS, and the 2nd link for you to calculate your BMR.. now go do some work

[RANA]

Have you previously used gear? You said this will be your 1st injectable, so does that mean you did orals before? If so what was it, how long and what were the results?

[eyeothetiger]

I have "done some work",diet is all sorted for this cycle and have been following the same diet for while now. Clean,frequent meals and all based on BMR. Jfalco and Jimmyinkedup,more input from you be sweet.

[eatrainrest]

I have "done some work",diet is all sorted for this cycle and have been following the same diet for while now. Clean,frequent meals and all based on BMR. Jfalco and Jimmyinkedup,more input from you be sweet.

ok so post it up if you dont mind

[eyeothetiger]

Yeah RANA,have used Dbol only before (I know!). Gained 21lbs and kept most,it's only recently my diet been in check though so didn't gain much till when started to use gear. Having said that I know my natural limits in the gym terms weight and because of my personal situation I need something to give me propa good kick up me arse.

[eyeothetiger]

My diet is fine,I haven't really got time for guys like you anyway eatrainrest,you may be trying to help but way you do that is just rude. Would you like it if someone said to you "Now go do some work" ??!!,no didn't think so. Anyone else wanting to help will be appreciated,I aint having some bighead make me look small though.

[eatrainrest]

My diet is fine,I haven't really got time for guys like you anyway eatrainrest,you may be trying to help but way you do that is just rude. Would you like it if someone said to you "Now go do some work" ??!!,no didn't think so. Anyone else wanting to help will be appreciated,I aint having some bighead make me look small though.

lol... i guess my persona is an "internet tough guy" now from telling people to go to some research...well goodluck!

[RANA]

Yeah RANA,have used Dbol only before (I know!). Gained 21lbs and kept most,it's only recently my diet been in check though so didn't gain much till when started to use gear. Having said that I know my natural limits in the gym terms weight and because of my personal situation I need something to give me propa good kick up me arse.

Nothing wrong with a good kick in the "arse" or as we say "ass" You should post your diet, you sould like a guy I used to train, low BF% and hard to gain size. I had to adjust his diet because he was way too low in calories and carbs and he gain 10 lbs. of muscle in one year (Naturally). He was 5'10" 140lbs and went to 150 lbs. It was difficult for him to eat numerous times a day and even eat breakfest but he finally pulled his head out of his "arse" and listened LOL

[eyeothetiger]

Dont know about internet tough guy....can think of another way of putting it but I better not...too much test flying about round here sometimes I think lol.

[eyeothetiger]

I need to find diet first but I can assure you it is spot on,few guys from here helped me with it. Fully understand terms calories though,also fully get fact that food is best anabolic out there. I know my natural limits though hence my cycle. I cant lie I am nervous bout injecting...is arse or quad safest place?. Also what's the worst that can happenme injecting there?.

[T-MOS]

My diet is fine,I haven't really got time for guys like you anyway eatrainrest,you may be trying to help but way you do that is just rude. Would you like it if someone said to you "Now go do some work" ??!!,no didn't think so. Anyone else wanting to help will be appreciated,I aint having some bighead make me look small though.

Obviously with your size, your diet is NOT as fine as YOU think it is. That is why we want to LOOK at it so we can HELP you make if better or you will just be wasting the steroids !!

Sorry, not to sound like a Dick, but you are 5'10 and ONLY 170 YOU ARE SMALL, we are trying to help you change that the correct way !!

Steroids will HELP, but if you are NOT eating correctly, you will NOT keep your gains then it will be back to 170 for you ........Your choice, you asked for HELP, but you don't want to accept it!

[Gappa]

T-Mos I challenge your statement of Sustanon having to be injected EOD.. The 4 esters in the blend give it a "release glide". Every 4 days to a week is plenty. NOW.. to get the fast acting PROP ester effects EOD is required. "i think" The 4th ester Decanoate that will endure for around a month possibly 6 weeks.
Don't mean to start any kinda arguement bro, that statement tweaked my interest..

[Phate]

Obviously with your size, your diet is NOT as fine as YOU think it is. That is why we want to LOOK at it so we can HELP you make if better or you will just be wasting the steroids !!

Sorry, not to sound like a Dick, but you are 5'10 and ONLY 170 YOU ARE SMALL, we are trying to help you change that the correct way !!

Steroids will HELP, but if you are NOT eating correctly, you will NOT keep your gains then it will be back to 170 for you ........Your choice, you asked for HELP, but you don't want to accept it!

agreed 100%

[Gappa]

he needs schooling on supplementation also.. Check out Beverly intl.. I have tried all the BS stuff from the outlet nutrition centers and most of it is total crap..
I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO TRY Beverly supps! IF IT ISN'T THE BEST STUFF YOU HAVE EVER USED I WILL BUY BACK WHAT YOU DONT WANT!!!
I have no affiliation with them BTW, I just know everyone who tries them never uses anything else afterwards!!
I tell this to everyone who asks general advice... They come up to me later with their gym bags stuffed or thank me and they are huge the next time I see them..

[markhyena]

diet and training.. ill send you the most helpful links of your life... then head to the diet forum

ALL LINKS, ID WATCH THEM IN ORDER MAKE SURE TO WATCH ALL THE VIDS IN THE 1ST!
So you wanna learn how to Diet? ** WATCH ALL DVD VIDEOS FIRST!
Another way to calculate BMR BMR CALCULATIONS

come to the diet forum with a proposed diet AFTER THOSE VIDS, and the 2nd link for you to calculate your BMR.. now go do some work

nice thanks !!

[Gappa]

he's got a loooooong way to go..
man taking all this advice for a novice will be quite hard to swallow all at once

[eatrainrest]

T-Mos I challenge your statement of Sustanon having to be injected EOD.. The 4 esters in the blend give it a "release glide". Every 4 days to a week is plenty. NOW.. to get the fast acting PROP ester effects EOD is required. "i think" The 4th ester Decanoate that will endure for around a month possibly 6 weeks.
Don't mean to start any kinda arguement bro, that statement tweaked my interest..

yea but why would you take sust and not take advantage of the prop ester? than sust is not an ideal candidate because it will in turn result in unstable blood levels as opposed to a single ester test....juice 101 lol

[eyeothetiger]

All taken on board fellas,relative of mine was pro upto few years back so training sorta in blood...he wouldn't have been impressed by my diet but he was lot bigger to start anyway.

Yeah you're right too,my diet has been poor hence lack of gains. Even with that considered though I know how I feel and that is that I need that extra push. No-one answered bout injection sites,have done research but from your personal experience I mean....where is safest to pin yourself if it's your first time,glute or quad?. Also what is worst that can happen pinning there and how likely is it to happen unless person pinning is complete numpty lol

[Gappa]

Mr Tiger...you can take that cookie, and stick it in your arse! dart to the glutes is painless and esay
ETRest.. The esters overlap for me it is quite smooth.. even after the initial prop phase the isoprop is kicking in.. Sust is very "elegant" and all the answers/opinions here are correct.. If you want that shotgun BANG BANG effect just do straight prop ed/eod.. Sust is excellent as far as water retention..

[eatrainrest]

nice thanks !!

glad to see somebody eager to learn!

[eyeothetiger]

Gappa it's glutes all the way then?. Help me here guys,I can go with Sust or test e,from what I've said what would you recommend?. Either way I'm only gonna go for 250mg per week pinned once a week. As pain free as poss would be cool though :-),I'm no wimp,just want smooth injections.

[Gappa]

yep arse is a universally accepted site...
your first time use a 23 to 25Guage pin 1.5 inches long. Using a 25G pin you will either have to warm the goodies up to get it to flow. Or attach an 18G pin and draw it out then attach your 25G pin.
WE CAN ALL RELATE TO THE "DEVIRGINIZATION" JITTERS OF DOING THE FIRST INJECTION
I was shaking so bad it came out and was sore because I couldnt keep still.
TIP: maybe get a trusted bro to poke you the first time!!
I had a buddy that wouldn't ever do it himself, he always waited for me to get to the gym so I could stick him..

[Gappa]

oh yea go with sust it's much better than T enan...

[eatrainrest]

oh yea go with sust it's much better than T enan...

bro we cant beat this over and over for years... test is test....unstable blood levels with sust not EOD=more sides.

[T-MOS]

Gappa it's glutes all the way then?. Help me here guys,I can go with Sust or test e,from what I've said what would you recommend?. Either way I'm only gonna go for 250mg per week pinned once a week. As pain free as poss would be cool though :-),I'm no wimp,just want smooth injections.

The thing with Sust, including the prop ester in it is that it was originally produced for LOW DOSE TRT purposes. That said, for bodybuilding, the KEY is to keep your blood levels as stable as possible. In order to do that with Sust, it NEEDS to be shot EOD in order to keep the prop level from too much fluctuating. THIS is why the EOD shots are OPTIMUM. will it make or break you? NO
Can it cause more sides if you shoot it only twice a week? YES. Will you notice the difference? maybe yes, maybe no

It is MUCH easier to keep blood levels stable with a single ester then with multi esters.

The choice is yours. My choice would always be the single ester. Test E all the way. JMHO

hope that also answers your question to me Gappa

[Gappa]

Yes T.. this is quite an interesting topic, I must admit I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
Optimally EOD sust is quite right 750mgs-wk rocks but for a beginner? Yea maybe.. dont you think he should ease into it.. I'm just sayin we don't know how well his body would take those more advanced doses right away.... right???

[eatrainrest]

Yes T.. this is quite an interesting topic, I must admit I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
Optimally EOD sust is quite right 750mgs-wk rocks but for a beginner? Yea maybe.. dont you think he should ease into it.. I'm just sayin we don't know how well his body would take those more advanced doses right away.... right???

you can still take 500mg/weekly of sust shooitng EOD........

[eyeothetiger]

Cool well put it this way,with me shooting 250mg only once a week which should I go for Sust or Test E,from what I've read here it's Test E. Which is less painful?...no-one answered about risks of injecting in me arse :-)...what is worst that can happen as long as stay in top right quadrant?...I know once I get over initial worry I'm gonna love it and be so much better off than orals but my head cant shake the whole "ooooo injecting steroids = bad" stigma at mo. I'm sure you guys can understand and thanks for your continued help,taking it all in trust.

[T-MOS]

Yes T.. this is quite an interesting topic, I must admit I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
Optimally EOD sust is quite right 750mgs-wk rocks but for a beginner? Yea maybe.. dont you think he should ease into it.. I'm just sayin we don't know how well his body would take those more advanced doses right away.... right???

WHEN did I ever say 750mgs/week ?????


Please, if you can't do simple math, then maybe steroid use is not for you.....LOLOLOLOL


Hell i am 10 years into this and don't use that much test. I do however know how to do math to get the dose I want.....hmmmmm

even using YOUR logic, he wouldn't be doing 750, it would be more like 875 as it would break down to 3.5 shots a week

that said, IF the sust is concentrated at 250mgs/ml, then he COULD do 1/2 ml EOD and get approx 437.5 mgs/week

see, its called MATH.......sorry, just feeling a little punchy today.....lolol

[T-MOS]

Cool well put it this way,with me shooting 250mg only once a week which should I go for Sust or Test E,from what I've read here it's Test E. Which is less painful?...no-one answered about risks of injecting in me arse :-)...what is worst that can happen as long as stay in top right quadrant?...I know once I get over initial worry I'm gonna love it and be so much better off than orals but my head cant shake the whole "ooooo injecting steroids = bad" stigma at mo. I'm sure you guys can understand and thanks for your continued help,taking it all in trust.

you can do a little more research on here and use the search function to find your risk answers.

There are risks to anything if you don't do it correctly

there is risk of abcess
risk of infection
risk of injecting into a vein

all these are EASILY avoided by using the proper technique. there are threads on here about it, just search for them

[Gappa]

EOD=3 sust a week 3x250mgs?? last time I checked there were only 7 days in a week..lmao T!
Tigger.. watch the upper part of the glutes.. The sciatic nerve runs horizontal for a spot then down the leg. I got 15years nanny nanny boo boo I got more than you do..lmao

[eyeothetiger]

Well to prove I already done some reading....to avoid abcess I will make sure everything is 100% clean,use alcohol wipe before/after and will also not touch the needle to anything part from where I'm pinning. To avoid infection similar precautions and to stop risk of injecting into vein simply aspirate before plunging...not forgetting to plunge at an angle. Out of interest what happens if you inject into a vein? :-/