Planning first cycle - Help appreciated.

**Berserker88** · 05-14-2009, 08:28 AM

Hey guys, first post on here. Been hovering around for a few months reading and reading, the sciencie stuff goes over my head everytime but I think im getting a decent understanding.

Bit of stats/info about me first -

Training for strongman/powerlifting, as such diet/calories definately arent a problem, I know how to eat and train.
23 years old
103kg body weight
approx 4 years of training under my belt
approx 13-16% BF

Below is my first cycle im planning to do in a few months, including PCT plan and everything, want to make sure I have everything correct before I even try to find sources - hopefully a relief for you guys compared to me getting deca and starting a deca only cycle then begging for help half way through

Weeks Item Dose
1 – 4 D-bol 40mg ED (tabs)
1 – 12 Enan 500mg/wk (liquid (inject))
1 – 14 Nolvadex 10mg ED (tabs)
1 – 14 L-dex .25mg ED (tabs or liquid(oral?))

PCT - Starts 14 days after last enth injection right?
Day 1-14 - 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex (tabs or liquid(all oral?))
Day 15-30 - 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31-37 - 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 1-37 - 3000mg of tribulus (tabs)
Day 1-37 - 500-1000ui of Vitamin E (tabs)

Im pretty sweet with what I want to take for the cycle (test-enth with D-bol to kick start it) but the PCT has me a bit confused - The one I've listed is the one from the newbie thread + trib + vit E. The reason im confused is so many peoples PCT are totally different, one person says one things useless, another says something else is.

Basically I'm looking for input on what I've plan thus far and if there are any improvements I could make to it - dosages etc as well as drugs used.

Also you will see next to some of the substances (Clomid / Nolva / L-dex) I've put what their "form" is, I know some of them you can get in both liquid or tabs, but I'm not sure if the liquid is oral or injectable - couldn't seem to find info on it sorry if its a dumb question.

Lastly, what an expect price to pay for these items in Sydney, Australia if anyone knows, guessing it will be a bit more then whats listed on the main site of this forum cause everything is bloody more expensive over here

.

Thanks in advance for any help guys.

**chuckt12345** · 05-14-2009, 08:36 AM

LOOKS OK,, DONT ASK About prices. I wouldnt run clomid so high,, go 100/100/50/50

**10nispro** · 05-14-2009, 08:39 AM

The cycle itself looks good. No need to take the nolva during your cycle. It will hinder gains. Take the l-dex only if you think you will hold water, but that can be controlled by diet. Stick with nolva/clomid pct. Start 18 days after last injection. Lastly, no price discussion, sorry.

**Berserker88** · 05-14-2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

LOOKS OK,, DONT ASK About prices. I wouldnt run clomid so high,, go 100/100/50/50

Originally Posted by 10nispro

The cycle itself looks good. No need to take the nolva during your cycle. It will hinder gains. Take the l-dex only if you think you will hold water, but that can be controlled by diet. Stick with nolva/clomid pct. Start 18 days after last injection. Lastly, no price discussion, sorry.

Ok, edited my original post Day 1+2 are 100mg clom and day 3-30 are 50mg clom. So no nolva at all during cycle? Do other people agree with this?

Because prices were listed on the main site didnt realise it was bad to ask, sorry.

**chuckt12345** · 05-14-2009, 08:43 AM

well i meant 100/100/50/50 as 100 for first 2 wks and 50 for lsat 2 wks
you could do 100/50/50/50

**Berserker88** · 05-14-2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

well i meant 100/100/50/50 as 100 for first 2 wks and 50 for lsat 2 wks
you could do 100/50/50/50

I see, fixed.

**chuckt12345** · 05-14-2009, 08:50 AM

i also wouldNT run the ldex for pct

HAD TO EDIT THAT,,

**marcus300** · 05-14-2009, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Berserker88

Hey guys, first post on here. Been hovering around for a few months reading and reading, the sciencie stuff goes over my head everytime but I think im getting a decent understanding.

Bit of stats/info about me first -

Training for strongman/powerlifting, as such diet/calories definately arent a problem, I know how to eat and train.
23 years old
103kg body weight
approx 4 years of training under my belt
approx 13-16% BF

Below is my first cycle im planning to do in a few months, including PCT plan and everything, want to make sure I have everything correct before I even try to find sources - hopefully a relief for you guys compared to me getting deca and starting a deca only cycle then begging for help half way through

Weeks Item Dose
1 – 4 D-bol 40mg ED (tabs)
1 – 12 Enan 500mg/wk (liquid (inject))
1 – 14 Nolvadex 10mg ED (tabs)
1 – 14 L-dex .25mg ED (tabs or liquid(oral?))

PCT - Starts 14 days after last enth injection right?
Day 1-14 - 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex (tabs or liquid(all oral?))
Day 15-30 - 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31-37 - 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 1-37 - 3000mg of tribulus (tabs)
Day 1-37 - 500-1000ui of Vitamin E (tabs)

Im pretty sweet with what I want to take for the cycle (test-enth with D-bol to kick start it) but the PCT has me a bit confused - The one I've listed is the one from the newbie thread + trib + vit E. The reason im confused is so many peoples PCT are totally different, one person says one things useless, another says something else is.

Basically I'm looking for input on what I've plan thus far and if there are any improvements I could make to it - dosages etc as well as drugs used.

Also you will see next to some of the substances (Clomid / Nolva / L-dex) I've put what their "form" is, I know some of them you can get in both liquid or tabs, but I'm not sure if the liquid is oral or injectable - couldn't seem to find info on it sorry if its a dumb question.

Lastly, what an expect price to pay for these items in Sydney, Australia if anyone knows, guessing it will be a bit more then whats listed on the main site of this forum cause everything is bloody more expensive over here

.

Thanks in advance for any help guys.

Cycle looks fine and well thought out, I really think you should drop either nolva or A-dex during the cycle, i think it could be overload and retard your gains, I would pick one or the other but defo drop one. Also in pct nolva and clomid will be fine for that cycle along side trib/vit e.

**RANA** · 05-14-2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by 10nispro

The cycle itself looks good. No need to take the nolva during your cycle. It will hinder gains. Take the l-dex only if you think you will hold water, but that can be controlled by diet. Stick with nolva/clomid pct. Start 18 days after last injection. Lastly, no price discussion, sorry.

^^^^^TOTALLY AGREE ^^^^
10Nispro, whats up brother. Long time no talk to, hope all is well. Sorry not trying to steal thread just saying hello.

**CHUCKYthentic** · 05-14-2009, 11:25 AM

im gonna have to disagree with you guys on the PCT start time. I discussed this with warmachine in the past and 18 days is waaay too long for enanthate . common start is 14 for enanthate 18 for cyp.

i prefer 12 days after last test e shot

to the OP keep the cycle simple
the dbol and test e look good

pct: clomid nolva and an AI

if you choose to run an AI on cycle, then there is no need for it in pct. if you dont use one on cycle, use an AI in pct

**RANA** · 05-14-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by CHUCKYthentic

im gonna have to disagree with you guys on the PCT start time. I discussed this with warmachine in the past and 18 days is waaay too long for enanthate . common start is 14 for enanthate 18 for cyp.

i prefer 12 days after last test e shot

to the OP keep the cycle simple
the dbol and test e look good

pct: clomid nolva and an AI

if you choose to run an AI on cycle, then there is no need for it in pct. if you dont use one on cycle, use an AI in pct

Actually, you are right. I was more focused on him not taking Nolva while on the cycle and not taking L-dex unless needed. When I did my Test E and Dbaol kicker cycle a couple or years ago I started my PCT either the 12 or 14 day after.
This was my PCT

week 1 clomid 100mg nolva 40mg
week 2 clomid 50mg nolva 40mg
week 3-5 clomid 50mg nolva 20mg.

**CHUCKYthentic** · 05-14-2009, 11:50 AM

i agree with you 100% RANA

dont use nolvadex on cycle (unless gyno symptoms start to show) and the Ldex is kinda up to you OP

**Berserker88** · 05-14-2009, 05:45 PM

Thanks for all the replies. Here is it revised.

Weeks Item Dose
1 – 4 D-bol 40mg ED (tabs)
1 – 12 Enan 500mg/wk (liquid (inject))
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg ED (tabs or liquid(oral?))

PCT - Starts 12 days after last enth injection
Day 1-14 - 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex (tabs or liquid(all oral?))
Day 15-30 - 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31-37 - 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 1-37 - 3000mg of tribulus (tabs)
Day 1-37 - 500-1000ui of Vitamin E (tabs)

So only use Nolva on cycle if I start to get gyno? If i need to take it on cycle do i just take it till symptoms are gone or for the remainder? Moved my PCT to 12 days.

Also some people have said use L-dex in PCT others are saying not worth it if Im taking clo and nolva. Could I get some more info on this guys?

Thanks!

**CHUCKYthentic** · 05-14-2009, 06:25 PM

L-dex is the liquid form of arimidex . hopefully that answers your tab or liquid question

run the arimidex .25mg every other day, not every day

reason to you dont have to use adex in pct if you use it on cycle is because your estro levels will already be controlled, therefore they wont be high in pct. thats why you should use it in pct IF you DONT use it on cycle

yes use nolva only if gyno symptoms start to arise. this will stop the the estrogen from binding to the receptors. use until symptoms subside, not rest of cycle

as for the tribulus in your pct, i dont really see why you feel it is necessary. IMO dont know what benefit itll have or if that stuff really works

hope this helps

**WARMachine** · 05-14-2009, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by CHUCKYthentic

im gonna have to disagree with you guys on the PCT start time. I discussed this with warmachine in the past and 18 days is waaay too long for enanthate . common start is 14 for enanthate 18 for cyp.

i prefer 12 days after last test e shot

to the OP keep the cycle simple
the dbol and test e look good

pct: clomid nolva and an AI

if you choose to run an AI on cycle, then there is no need for it in pct. if you dont use one on cycle, use an AI in pct

Good Advice!

"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

OP you should have a look at my thread. I explain ERSEs, how to control them, how to treat them, as well as PCT.

**Berserker88** · 05-14-2009, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by CHUCKYthentic

L-dex is the liquid form of arimidex . hopefully that answers your tab or liquid question

run the arimidex .25mg every other day, not every day

reason to you dont have to use adex in pct if you use it on cycle is because your estro levels will already be controlled, therefore they wont be high in pct. thats why you should use it in pct IF you DONT use it on cycle

yes use nolva only if gyno symptoms start to arise. this will stop the the estrogen from binding to the receptors. use until symptoms subside, not rest of cycle

as for the tribulus in your pct, i dont really see why you feel it is necessary. IMO dont know what benefit itll have or if that stuff really works

hope this helps

Thanks heaps Chucky, this pretty much answers every question for me. I'll take the L-dex out of the PCT then, think ill leave it in the cycle just to reduce the chance of sides as its my first cycle I'm not sure how I'll react.

Reason I have the trib in is a lot of people have mentioned its good in PCT, PLUS I have 8 bottles of the stuff haha!

Final revision (hopefully

) -

Weeks Item Dose
1 – 4 D-bol 40mg Each Day (tabs)
1 – 12 Enan 500mg/wk (liquid (inject every 3.5 days 250mg))
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg (or Arimidex) Every other day

PCT - Starts 12 days after last enth injection
Day 1-14 - 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 15-30 - 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 31-37 - 20mg Nolva
Day 1-37 - 3000mg of tribulus (tabs)
Day 1-37 - 500-1000ui of Vitamin E (tabs)

**CHUCKYthentic** · 05-14-2009, 06:57 PM

thanks WAR, hope you dont mind me throwin your name out there! it works far too great! i think im gonna start every response off with, Well WARmachine said... hahaha

**RANA** · 05-14-2009, 07:01 PM

I don't want to beat a dead horse but why don't you hold off you l-dex in your cycle until it's needed. By taking it when it is not needed it might hinder some of the gains. OK I'm done saying that again. Best of luck in your cycle.

**WARMachine** · 05-14-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by CHUCKYthentic

thanks WAR, hope you dont mind me throwin your name out there! it works far too great! i think im gonna start every response off with, Well WARmachine said... hahaha

Lol no problem brutha!

Originally Posted by RANA

I don't want to beat a dead horse but why don't you hold off you l-dex in your cycle until it's needed. By taking it when it is not needed it might hinder some of the gains. OK I'm done saying that again. Best of luck in your cycle.

Well not to start a debate or anything. But in the event you are not taking an AI, and you begin to develop gyno, Adex isnt gonna do a fckin thing for you.

But seeing is how this is his first cycle, id suggest trial and error. He wont know how ERSE prone he is until be begins cycling.

However, due to his high BF%, it seems more likely he will encounter these sides.

**Berserker88** · 05-14-2009, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by RANA

I don't want to beat a dead horse but why don't you hold off you l-dex in your cycle until it's needed. By taking it when it is not needed it might hinder some of the gains. OK I'm done saying that again. Best of luck in your cycle.

Wasn't ignoring your advice, was just wondering why when other people were saying to use either nolva or l-dex during